How To Thicken Dermis? Crows Feet

[lollipop]

I have that thicker skin you mention which is slow to age. Low carbing made it dull and lifeless, and it started to develop a gaunt fold through the cheeks. Peating has brightened it and given it back its glow and it looks younger. I can't say which aspect of peating ... There are so many possibilities, but when I compare results with others it seems to me that dieting and over exercising thins, wrinkles and dulls the fastest. In other words, the stress. Everything you can do against stress I think would help.

+1 this has been my experience as well.

 

[BrianF]

Pansterone will have an effect, it made me look a few years younger after about one week. Maybe not a long-term solution, but a short-term fix.

 

[mangoes]

@Ras
Thanks! I'll definitely look into elastase, always looking for new avenues. Maybe I'll try out some essential oils/tea too.

@Lyall @danishispsychic @Zaq

Thanks, I'll look into androgens/skin interaction and Retin-A, too.

@SQu @lisaferraro

Thanks, I've definitely observed the same phenomena. I need to rethicken my skin then prevent it from getting thin again, lol. I'm doing everything I can ATM, but I have some issues that override a lot of the progress that I could make, health-wise. Honestly, I feel like if I had the finances to address certain things progress could definitely (well, hopefully lol) be made, but such is life, I'll get there at some point! but that's why I was asking if anyone knew of any helpful specifics

@BrianF

I've used pansterone before without noticing the same effects. I am in my 20s and look in my 20s, and whilst the thinning skin does age me imo, I think someone older than me would much more likely notice the same effects you noticed. I dunno though, maybe I should buy a new bottle and try it out again, lol. Thanks though

 

[Mossy]

For hair-loss, dermarolling is used on the scalp--people also use this for wrinkles and skin rejuvenation all over the body. If you don't mind the medieval aspect of it , people seem to get results. I use this on my scalp as part of a hair-loss regime, and the mechanical action of it is less painful and makes it easier to use than a manual one: Derminator digital dermaneedling

 

[2thecloudsabove]

For hair-loss, dermarolling is used on the scalp--people also use this for wrinkles and skin rejuvenation all over the body. If you don't mind the medieval aspect of it , people seem to get results. I use this on my scalp as part of a hair-loss regime, and the mechanical action of it is less painful and makes it easier to use than a manual one: Derminator digital dermaneedling

I had looked the derminator in the past, Im still debating between derminator and a mesogun. New mesoguns are even more small and manageable, and they have the advantage they don't just needle, but they also can put collagen promoters, antioxidants, peptides, hyaluronic acids, growth factors... etc in the dermis. You can use one function or both. Theyr are not much more expensive than the derminator.

 

[shepherdgirl]

I am interested in this topic, so i poked around on the forum and found some interesting threads:

Action Of Topical Thyroid Hormone Analogue In Reversing Glucocorticoid-induced Skin Atrophy

possible beneficial effects of topical testosterone for the skin and hair

Topical DHEA Boosts Skin Collagen

Collagen Synthesis

SolBan - Liquid Aspirin/Caffeine/Niacinamide Mix

 

[mangoes]

@Mossy @2thecloudsabove
I was thinking of trying out dermarolling before. Ooh mesoguns look really exciting tbh, I definitely have to try one out

@shepherdgirl
Thanks. More reading ahead I forgot, I actually wanted to try SolBan ages ago but never got around to it!

 

[Peata]

You could also try cacao powder. I'm giving it a try for various reasons, but I'll keep an eye on skin condition as I go.

Here's some info on the cacao:

Oral Supplementation with Cocoa Extract Reduces UVB-Induced Wrinkles in Hairless Mouse Skin - ScienceDirect

 

[danishispsychic]

There are a ton of anecdotes i've read on a few forums of Retin-A significantly *decreasing* dermal thickness and disappearing subcutaneous fat, in other words turning a plump and healthy face into a gaunt and hollow one... Which is why I have no personal experience with it nor intend to any time soon. It reduces wrinkles by thinning the skin to the level of the wrinkle, rather than buffing out wrinkles themselves. But don't mind me i'm just parroting

Squak squak

I use Trentinoin .25 specifically and it works for me. It does not thin skin, it provides cell turnover and increases collagen. :) It is hard to get but a total game changer.

 

[Mossy]

I had looked the derminator in the past, Im still debating between derminator and a mesogun. New mesoguns are even more small and manageable, and they have the advantage they don't just needle, but they also can put collagen promoters, antioxidants, peptides, hyaluronic acids, growth factors... etc in the dermis. You can use one function or both. Theyr are not much more expensive than the derminator.

Ah, interesting. I've never heard of a mesogun--I'll have to look into it.

 

[2thecloudsabove]

You could also try cacao powder. I'm giving it a try for various reasons, but I'll keep an eye on skin condition as I go.

Here's some info on the cacao:

Oral Supplementation with Cocoa Extract Reduces UVB-Induced Wrinkles in Hairless Mouse Skin - ScienceDirect

Thats an interesting study, I had read about the antioxidant goods of coca but this new UVB protector ability is a new one. You must bear in mind you have to get the cacao/cocoa had not been alkalized previously which destroy most of its beneficial phenols and antioxidant properties.

 

[Mossy]

Thats an interesting study, I had read about the antioxidant goods of coca but this new UVB protector ability is a new one. You must bear in mind you have to get the cacao/cocoa had not been alkalized previously which destroy most of its beneficial phenols and antioxidant properties.

That is pretty interesting.

If I read correctly, it seems their recommended dose is 4 g/day for humans; and, that the low and high doses used on the mice were: low: 39.1 mg/kg ; high: 156.3 mg/kg. Assuming these mice doses translate equally to humans, it seems they've determined the higher dose isn't necessary.

More discerning minds and eyes are welcome to correct any of this.

 

[smith]

I use Trentinoin .25 specifically and it works for me. It does not thin skin, it provides cell turnover and increases collagen. :) It is hard to get but a total game changer.

Oh I see, well it's good that it increases collagen for you, so I guess it's not 100% bad. I don't doubt your claim, but if all you want to do is increase collagen, there are many more ways to do it that don't involve getting something akin to a prescription medication from online pharmacies, and are probably cheaper with less side effects, like straight up chicken sternal collagen, or L-proline lol. It just seems like a roundabout way to do something IMO, but good luck with it anyway.

Is something always automatically 100% good or without risk and 0% bad just because it's been observed to do one or two beneficial things? Hmmm, doubtful.
Aside from that, the attractiveness we associate with healthy skin is determined by more than just collagen.

 

[Blossom]

I use Trentinoin .25 specifically and it works for me. It does not thin skin, it provides cell turnover and increases collagen. :) It is hard to get but a total game changer.

I'm glad you have had a positive experience with Retin-A. I thought it should be mentioned that there seems to be a possible link between retin-a, interleukin 15 and celiac disease. I used retin-a myself throughout my 20's and 30's and generally liked the effects on my skin. I was diagnosed celiac in my early 40's and it makes me wonder if there is a connection in my case. This news article explains it a bit.
New Treatment for Celiac Disease?
It does seem that people with celiac disease or at risk for celiac disease should proceed with caution in regards to using retin-a. Even if a person doesn't eat gluten I wonder if using something that interferes with the interleukins is a good idea?

 

[danishispsychic]

Oh I see, well it's good that it increases collagen for you, so I guess it's not 100% bad. I don't doubt your claim, but if all you want to do is increase collagen, there are many more ways to do it that don't involve getting something akin to a prescription medication from online pharmacies, and are probably cheaper with less side effects, like straight up chicken sternal collagen, or L-proline lol. It just seems like a roundabout way to do something IMO, but good luck with it anyway.

Is something always automatically 100% good or without risk and 0% bad just because it's been observed to do one or two beneficial things? Hmmm, doubtful.
Aside from that, the attractiveness we associate with healthy skin is determined by more than just collagen.

Tretinoin is magic. It just is.

 

[Blossom]

Tretinoin is magic. It just is.

One man's meat is another man's poison.

 

[danishispsychic]

One man's meat is another man's poison.

totally- interesting you comment on celiac- i am going to research this. i dont eat dead animals tho.... when i looked into the connection for a sec, it showed that it was Vitamin A that was the trigger. i wonder what Dr. Peat thinks about it .... i might email him on it. thank for your pointing out the connection! xx

 

[Blossom]

totally- interesting you comment on celiac- i am going to research this. i dont eat dead animals tho.... when i looked into the connection for a sec, it showed that it was Vitamin A that was the trigger. i wonder what Dr. Peat thinks about it .... i might email him on it. thank for your pointing out the connection! xx

I'd be interested to know his thoughts too! Thanks

 

[Blossom]

totally- interesting you comment on celiac- i am going to research this. i dont eat dead animals tho.... when i looked into the connection for a sec, it showed that it was Vitamin A that was the trigger. i wonder what Dr. Peat thinks about it .... i might email him on it. thank for your pointing out the connection! xx

I think the pharmaceutical and medical industries have created a lot of confusion. Vitamin A has been unnecessarily vilified on the one hand and then products like retin-a and accutane have been promoted in a benign light as simply forms of a harmless vitamin. There is some truth to this of course because they are technically forms of vitamin A.

I eat liver and occasionally take a vitamin A supplement and find both beneficial. I don't believe dietary vitamin A 'gave me' celiac disease. What I do think is possible though is that putting retin-a on my skin for decades could have increased my IL15 and been an environmental trigger (among other things) which in the presence of a gluten rich diet at the time triggered the condition in me. I have one copy of the HLA-DQA1 gene so that put me at an increased risk for becoming celiac. I don't buy into the notion that genes are everything but I obviously inherited a stronger tendency to acquire the disease. Increased IL15 from retin-a may be harmless to most people. I really don't know. It seems lots of people seemingly use retin-a without issue but for some it could cause problems.
We have a forum member @Ella that spent some time doing Vitamin A research and she might have some useful information to add.

 

[danishispsychic]

interesting - i have one copy of that gene as well - even though my " doctors " told me that i didn't have a gluten issue- i have been gf for almost 10 years. what i do notice now that if i do accidentally get gluten in my diet that my reaction is really strong the older i get. the more i go on, the the more dna reports i run on different sites, the more i really am convinced that the dna factors and blood type ring true for me. i know Dr. Peat thinks that blood type thing is nonsense but.... what i do know is that eating gluten for years before i went off of it and taking tons of ibuprofen for sore joints form the same " doctors " that told me i no gluten issue- created a liver issue for me and then hormones imbalance. what a super slippery slope... why Retinol products work for me , i have no idea. i use a niacinimide / b3 day cream and a C serum also ... but im a bit of a skin freak. i should probably try to choke down some kind of dessicated liver but i get the shivers thinking about it. not sure if i want to kill a bunch of animals for my A... working on some other way. i can am too empathic to eat tortured animals and it actually gives me an adrenaline response at this point.