Haidut, Mercola, Cancer, Fat restriction

[movebetter]

Sorry for taking so long to reply mb.
Low energy , fatigue can be caused by a lot of different things. My energy levels dropped as I got older.
Sleep apnea, sluggish digestion, NAFLD etc can cause being tired.
IMHO the three I listed are all food related illnesses.

How to Calculate Your Metabolism, According to a Dietitian

Learn how many calories you burn each day using this simple equation.

www.eatingwell.com

The formula in the above article says my Base Metabolic Rate is 1788 calories a day, or 75 calories an hour.
My experience is that almost any amount above that and I gain weight . Keto, Atkins, Peatish makes no difference.
The calories in excess of that (in your case 2800) have to be stored-and the liver only has so much ability to store energy- the blood has only so much space to carry trigs...Where do the extra calories go?

I need to stress I am not Anti-Peat. I strongly believe in what he had said and written.
My issue is with people's interpretation of what he meant.
When we read about no weight gain in study X with an ad libitum diet of sugar , some assume that calories do not matter as long as it is sugar.
But even Peat says that if you gain weight on his milk and OJ diet, go to low fat milk. Hence calories matter.
We know- from reading these boards that we can only use 3 ounces of protein at a time (beyond that and the protein creates ammonia). Again, where does the rest of that 12 oz ribeye go?

What I am attempting to try now- is timing. Instead of three meals of 400-400-1000 calories, I will attempt 150-250 calories every two hours or so.
Maybe longer if the meal is meat based. I think that the large meal itself slows the body down.
I will let you know how it works out.

So in closing, it is not just fat restriction (I did VERY VERY low fat, high carb with nothing to show for it), but total calorie restriction. The calories we do consume
should avoid PUFA and starch. And if you avoid starch you will need to eat more frequently.

thanks for this information . It makes a lot of sense and I will look into it more closely. so are you saying you will not only eat low fat but also lower carbs to keep your calories within that range? What about protein I've been hearing that as ray peat got older he reduced his protein to no more than 50 grams a day. Do you have any opinion about protein?

here is what i are yesterday and it is pretty similar to what I've been eating for the last few weeks.
Fat 32 g, Protein 72 grams, carbohydrates 475 grams, Total calories about 2400,

I was just reading an article about depression by ray peat. here is the quote that I found which was a bit surprising to me. "A large carbohydrate meal increases the ratio of tryptophan to the competing amino acids, and it has been proposed that this can shift the body’s balance toward increased serotonin. In an animal study, bromocriptine, which shifts the balance away from serotonin, reduced obesity and insulin and free fatty acids, and improved glucose tolerance." this sounds to me like a large carbohydrate meal could cause fatigue and depression and gained weight. Have you heard of anything about bromocriptine being helpful for depression or fatigue?

Just to be clear my question about that related to not feeding cancer. What Georgie said was that fat feeds cancer and if you have cancer you need to be on a low fat diet. He said no more than 15% of your calories should come from fat. I do have a slow growing cancer so that's why I am concerned.

 

[CaptJim]

MB, an issue I have had since I started Peating and reading this forum was and is how certain titles are used-
ex, Fat. All fat? PUFA? SFA?
The initial links I posted say that SFA in coconut oil is very helpful against cancer.
Carbohydrates are another word. Wheat/bread is a carb. I doubt anyone here would say it is good for you.
I recall someone asking RP how to avoid cancer on a Podcast- If I remember correctly he said avoid wheat
and PUFA.

Not to argue with Georgie, and other people I respect, but the metabolic precision needed to alter a pathological condition
needs more detail than just saying cut fats and up carbs.
The Randall Cycle tells us that the energy source (fat or sugars) compete in the body. We could spend years and years to determine what the cross over point is.
Or we could say do not mix the two. But then Ray tells us about persorbtion and how you can avoid that by mixing starch with fat.

From the ray peat wiki
"Cancer metabolism" or stress metabolism typically involves an excess of the adaptive hormones, resulting from an imbalance of the demands made on the organism and the resources available to the organism. Excessive stimulation depletes glucose and produces lactic acid, and causes cortisol to increase,
* causing a shift to the consumption of fat and protein rather than glucose. Increased cortisol activates the Randle effect (the inhibition of glucose oxidation by free fatty acids), accelerates the breakdown of protein into amino acids, and activates the enzyme fatty acid synthase, which produces fatty acids from amino acids and pyruvate, to be oxidized in a "futile cycle," producing heat, and increasing the liberation of ammonia from the amino acids. Ammonia suppresses respiratory, and stimulates glycolytic, activity. [4]

Based on the starred line, don't we have to cut protein also?
The issue I have is that unless you have 0% body fat and 0% muscle cancer always has a food source.
Again, I tend to believe that overconsumption of calories beyond what is needed (base metabolic rate + exercise/activity) is the problem.
We KNOW that obesity is a factor in at least 13 forms of cancer. Also, obesity today causes more cancer cases than smoking.
Now I am not saying only people with obesity get cancer. Or that you suffer from it.
But fixing obesity may be beneficial to cancer patients, or at least helpful in avoiding cancer.
I find that the best way to keep my weight down below a 30 BMI is limiting my calories.

--
As an aside, in my early days of Peating, I gained a massive amount of weight. Eating everything with sugar. My mood improved, as did my stress levels.
The tradeoff was not being able to tie my shoes. I read, and re-read every article RP had on his website. And read it again. It was about 6 months ago that I realized RP writes in a very nuanced manner. My earlier take on what he meant was different from what he wrote in my opinion.

My diet now does not exceed 2000 calories a day. I eat eggs scrambled with cheese, meat/seafood and jello(w/ extra glycine), carrot salad , lots of coffee.
I have dropped 30 pounds and want to drop another 20. Very boring diet I know. I avoid all PUFA that I can, avoid all grains and seeds, We cook with grass fed butter and coconut oil. Is it Peaty? I do not know-it has elements of RP. Will it keep me cancer-free? I hope so. But I do feel better.

 

[CaptJim]

I forgot to add-
I know very little about bromo. For serotonin I use Famotidine (Pepcid). It gives me calcium and famotidine can be used for serotonin syndrome.