Could Copper Deficiency Be The Root Cause Of My Problems?

[PeterSN]

So I'm sure a lot of people remember me from a year ago, where I said I was going to die, and posted a thread on here with the title 'I'm Going To Die.'

I was mainly complaining about shortness of breath, PVCs and also some histamine issues, such as skin flushing, watery eyes and itchy skin. Sadly these symptoms have not left me, and some days i still feel like im going to die, I feel hypoxic and cant do normal things anymore. I can only exercise so much to the point after that my body will feel like its shutting down and all my symptoms will get worse, more heart palpitations, SOB and red hands and feet and bloating.

I started losing hope a couple of months ago until i switched my diet, to mainly fruitarian, quitting starch all together, where I also decreased fat substantially and that seemed to help with my red feet and bloating a bit. Unfortunately my symptoms are still here, just ever so slightly improved from a year ago. I still cant do normal things and have issues tolerating any kind of stress at all.

I noticed the switch in my diet was giving me higher copper and much lower zinc than i would normally get. Then it occured to me that most high zinc foods made me considerably worse, muscle meat, oysters, hard cheeses.. I started to look into copper and if I could be deficient in it. I found out that zinc antagonizes copper, apprently vitamin c does this too but to a lesser degree.

I have noticed that eating anything in general makes me more anxious, but i feel like that could just be the bloating increasing my heart rate, and then the hypoxic symptoms coming after that.
I also had my MCV level tested multiple times throughout this hellish journey, and found them to be low or bordering low on every blood test. (MCV tests the volume of each blood cell on average in the blood stream)

I then came across histamine intolerence and copper deficiency being a possible cause, as its one of the main cofactors for DAO or Diaminoxidase, which is an enzyme that breaks down histamine. I have had high histamine level symtoms since the beginning of these symptoms.

After this I came to know that copper deficiency can cause blood cells to be immature,and as a consequence be inefficient in carrying oxygen around the body, this also lowers its MCV level, which was present in all my blood tests.

I also notcied I was and still am waking up with numb hands and feet, which is indictive of a neuropathy. I realized that copper deficiency could be behind this too, as it can cause myleaneuorthpathy, which is basically diabetitic neuropathy, but caused from not enough copper.

I eventually got fed up with feeling like im going to die every day, so i got a copper blood test, where they tested my copper, zinc, iron and a bunch of other things. Most of the things came back normal and expected inclduing my zinc and iron, but.....

MY COPPER WAS OFF THE CHARTS LOW. I found my copper to be well below the reference range, even though its only a serum score, it makes so much sense to explain all my symptoms, and maybe if got more tests to make sure i actually am copper deficient i nthe tissues too, i could go about fixing it and possibly fix all these health issues i have been dealing with as well.

 

[Logan-]

COPPER: SUPPLEMENTATION VS DIET

Which one do you mainly prefer to increase your copper level? Why? If diet, what do you eat, and how much? If supplementation, what do you take, how much?

raypeatforum.com

 

[Logan-]

COPPER: SUPPLEMENTATION VS DIET

Which one do you mainly prefer to increase your copper level? Why? If diet, what do you eat, and how much? If supplementation, what do you take, how much?

raypeatforum.com

There are lot of good suggestions and ideas in this thread.

 

[youngsinatra]

I know so many people with this problem. I thinks it’s a really big issues for many that are struggling with chronic fatigue syndrome, hypoxia-type, pale complexion, anemia-type symptoms.

I have rarely seen someone fix their low blood copper with supplemental copper though, myself included. I texted with some that got multiple copper infusions and all that elevated was liver enzymes and no change in copper labs.
I tried various forms and dosages of it for a year, liquid copper bisglycinate (6-8mg per day for a few months), mitosynergy and global healing‘s copper-1 supplements (2-4 mg a day), copper-rich foods (mushrooms, avocado, chocolate etc.) but nothing really moved the needle for me. My serum copper finally moved from deficient into the lower 25%-percentile of the normal range after I took thyroid.

I‘d also get a ceruloplasmin test. Liver issues, methylation impairments, adrenal issues and low thyroid can cause low blood copper despite adequate liver stores. I cannot tolerate copper supplements or copper rich foods anymore as they make me feel incredibly toxic and my liver backing up.

But of course, for some, just a little more copper can fix the issue.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I’ve been supplementing with copper, manganese, zinc, selenium and lithium and I think I have had some major improvements in health.

 

[PeterSN]

I know so many people with this problem. I thinks it’s a really big issues for many that are struggling with chronic fatigue syndrome, hypoxia-type, pale complexion, anemia-type symptoms.

I have rarely seen someone fix their low blood copper with supplemental copper though, myself included. I texted with some that got multiple copper infusions and all that elevated was liver enzymes and no change in copper labs.
I tried various forms and dosages of it for a year, liquid copper bisglycinate (6-8mg per day for a few months), mitosynergy and global healing‘s copper-1 supplements (2-4 mg a day), copper-rich foods (mushrooms, avocado, chocolate etc.) but nothing really moved the needle for me. My serum copper finally moved into the lower 25%-percentile of the normal range after I took thyroid.

I‘d also get a ceruloplasmin test. Liver issues, methylation impairments, cofactors, adrenal issues and low thyroid can cause low blood copper despite adequate liver stores. I cannot tolerate copper supplements or copper rich foods anymore as they make me feel incredibly toxic and my liver backing up.

But of course, for some, just a little more copper can fix the issue.

Yeah didnt you say you have chronically elevated zinc though, so maybe its related more to high zinc causing the decrease in copper in your case? I understand that the liver and adrenals control ceuroloplasmin, but im not sure about copper in general, it could be very possible that i have high tissue copper levels and low in the serum, but i just dont see how that would be possible, considering the diet i was on for most of time before these issues hit the fan, was around consuming a mostly milk based diet, which has been shown to depelte copper at the tissue level:

 

[PeterSN]

I’ve been supplementing with copper, manganese, zinc, selenium and lithium and I think I have had some major improvements in health.

How long have you been supplementing copper? The reason why I ask is because alot of people who supplement copper say they feel better, but then they feel worse after a year or so

 

[youngsinatra]

Yeah didnt you say you have chronically elevated zinc though, so maybe its related more to high zinc causing the decrease in copper in your case? I understand that the liver and adrenals control ceuroloplasmin, but im not sure about copper in general, it could be very possible that i have high tissue copper levels and low in the serum, but i just dont see how that would be possible, considering the diet i was on for most of time before these issues hit the fan, was around consuming a mostly milk based diet, which has been shown to depelte copper at the tissue level:

Yes. I had lots of other weird things on lab work alongside the low copper, like elevated liver enzymes and problems with my liver in general due to intoxicating myself with retinol in the past. I also had high serum B6 and B12, high serum zinc, B2 deficiency, methylation problems and subclinical hypothyroidism.

It could be that you just have a plain copper deficiency. A deficient dietary copper intake, coupled with alcohol or a high sugar diet depletes copper.

 

[ecstatichamster]

How long have you been supplementing copper? The reason why I ask is because alot of people who supplement copper say they feel better, but then they feel worse after a year or so

I'm supplementing all those metals, not just copper. About 2 months.

 

[youngsinatra]

[Copper supplement with cocoa for copper deficiency in patients with long-term enteral nutrition] - PubMed

Copper deficiency (normal serum copper level: 78-136 micrograms/dl) has been reported in patients with long-term enteral nutrition, caused by a copper deficit in enteral nutrition. Occasionally, this leads to anemia and leukopenia. We used Hershey's pure cocoa that is rich in copper (content 3.8...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You could try adding some quality cocao to your diet, smoothies, or in the form of dark chocolate.

 

[PeterSN]

[Copper supplement with cocoa for copper deficiency in patients with long-term enteral nutrition] - PubMed

Copper deficiency (normal serum copper level: 78-136 micrograms/dl) has been reported in patients with long-term enteral nutrition, caused by a copper deficit in enteral nutrition. Occasionally, this leads to anemia and leukopenia. We used Hershey's pure cocoa that is rich in copper (content 3.8...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You could try adding some quality cocao to your diet, smoothies, or in the form of dark chocolate.

Nice i might try that, I noticed i eating and craving alot of dried dates, and the nit turns out that they are very high in copper and low in zinc. What kind of cholcolate would you reccomend, pure dark chocolate, milk chocolate?

 

[TheSir]

alot of people who supplement copper say they feel better, but then they feel worse after a year or so

Taking a lot of copper can eventually elevate aldosterone/cortisol ratio, or Na/K ratio which is kind of the same thing due to how sodium and potassium are related to these hormones. An elevated ratio can bring on increased inflammation, anger, estrogen dominance and emotional stress. Were the people you mention complaining of these kind of things?

I know so many people with this problem. I thinks it’s a really big issues for many that are struggling with chronic fatigue syndrome, hypoxia-type, pale complexion, anemia-type symptoms.

I have rarely seen someone fix their low blood copper with supplemental copper

Copper imbalance seems to be up there among the most difficult things to fix. As you wrote, adrenals, liver and thyroid all play important roles in copper metabolism, and to make matters worse, if one is doing poorly it will compromise the other two too. Liver can't work without adrenals, adrenals can't without thyroid and thyroid can't work without liver. To thoroughly fix copper metabolism, you're probably going to have to try to improve all three simultaneously.

 

[youngsinatra]

Nice i might try that, I noticed i eating and craving alot of dried dates, and the nit turns out that they are very high in copper and low in zinc. What kind of cholcolate would you reccomend, pure dark chocolate, milk chocolate?

In the study the used „Hershey's pure cocoa“
You can find it online, maybe even in your grocery market.

 

[youngsinatra]

Taking a lot of copper can eventually elevate aldosterone/cortisol ratio, or Na/K ratio which is kind of the same thing due to how sodium and potassium are related to these hormones. An elevated ratio can bring on increased inflammation, anger, estrogen dominance and emotional stress. Were the people you mention complaining of these kind of things?


Copper imbalance seems to be up there among the most difficult things to fix. As you wrote, adrenals, liver and thyroid all play important roles in copper metabolism, and to make matters worse, if one is doing poorly it will compromise the other two too. Liver can't work without adrenals, adrenals can't without thyroid and thyroid can't work without liver. To thoroughly fix copper metabolism, you're probably going to have to try to improve all three simultaneously.

Yeh correct.
Josh Rubin has some good material on this specific topic. He thinks chronic stress (high cortisol), results in all sorts of thyroid problems (low or high TSH, low-normal T3 & high RT3, thyroid resistance) which causes low ceruloplasmin synthesis in the liver. (T3 dependent)

 

[PeterSN]

Taking a lot of copper can eventually elevate aldosterone/cortisol ratio, or Na/K ratio which is kind of the same thing due to how sodium and potassium are related to these hormones. An elevated ratio can bring on increased inflammation, anger, estrogen dominance and emotional stress. Were the people you mention complaining of these kind of things?


Copper imbalance seems to be up there among the most difficult things to fix. As you wrote, adrenals, liver and thyroid all play important roles in copper metabolism, and to make matters worse, if one is doing poorly it will compromise the other two too. Liver can't work without adrenals, adrenals can't without thyroid and thyroid can't work without liver. To thoroughly fix copper metabolism, you're probably going to have to try to improve all three simultaneously.

Isnt it true though that a copper deficiency can compromise the digestive system and the digestive system compromises the liver through endotoxin and then the adrenals through being fully dependent on them when the liver stop producing cortisol and there is only a reliance on adrenaline?

So wouldnt a copper deficiency be the root cause?

 

[TheSir]

Yeh correct.
Josh Rubin has some good material on this specific topic. He thinks chronic stress (high cortisol), results in all sorts of thyroid problems (low or high TSH, low-normal T3 & high RT3, thyroid resistance) which causes low ceruloplasmin synthesis in the liver. (T3 dependent)

I can believe that.

Isnt it true though that a copper deficiency can compromise the digestive system and the digestive system compromises the liver through endotoxin and then the adrenals through being fully dependent on them when the liver stop producing cortisol and there is only a reliance on adrenaline?

So wouldnt a copper deficiency be the root cause?

It could still be the root cause in some cases, but often it's a symptom of a larger issue. Try supplementing it and see if you respond positively, perhaps it will do the trick for you.

 

[PeterSN]

I can believe that.


It could still be the root cause in some cases, but often it's a symptom of a larger issue. Try supplementing it and see if you respond positively, perhaps it will do the trick for you.

Ive looked into the risks of copper supllementation and i think ill follow up with my Gp, to possibly get a hair mineral analysis, just to make sure than my tissue levels are also deplete of copper i think. Ive come across alot of people online who started supplementing copper and for the first months their symptoms got better, but then they all got worse and stayed worse after around a year of being on copper

 

[TheCodez]

Ive looked into the risks of copper supllementation and i think ill follow up with my Gp, to possibly get a hair mineral analysis, just to make sure than my tissue levels are also deplete of copper i think. Ive come across alot of people online who started supplementing copper and for the first months their symptoms got better, but then they all got worse and stayed worse after around a year of being on copper

Have you poked around the Copper Revolution Facebook group?
Some folks there have been taking 30+mg for years and claim nothing but improvements.
My personal experience is more like what you're describing though. A month or two of solid improvement followed by some resurgence of symptoms.
It seems in my case that ANY fructose (including what's in sucrose) causes my symptoms to worsen. Starch seems to be fine though.

 

[LLight]

It seems in my case that ANY fructose (including what's in sucrose) causes my symptoms to worsen. Starch seems to be fine though.

It is often said that fructose has an influence on copper metabolism. I don't know what the effect is supposed to consist in though.

 

[PeterSN]

Have you poked around the Copper Revolution Facebook group?
Some folks there have been taking 30+mg for years and claim nothing but improvements.
My personal experience is more like what you're describing though. A month or two of solid improvement followed by some resurgence of symptoms.
It seems in my case that ANY fructose (including what's in sucrose) causes my symptoms to worsen. Starch seems to be fine though.

The severity of copper deficiency in rats is determined by the type of dietary carbohydrate - PubMed

The purpose of this investigation was to study the interaction between copper and dietary carbohydrates on clinical and enzymatic indices associated with copper deficiency. Copper deficiency was produced in rats by feeding diets adequate in all nutrients including selenium and chromium, but...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Fructose has often been argued to inhibit copper much more than zinc.

Also that whole copper revolution thing is a scam, the guy who founded it has fled and hasnt made a video since, a lot of people got banned on that group for calling him out, saying that their health was damaged. I do sadly think that low copper in the serum probably just means you have a sick liver and adrenals tbh