Brad Marshall's Presentation on PUFA, Obesity, Torpor and more.

[canadianboymike]

would you mind explaining what they said are the causes/solutions for obesity? the same principles would apply id imagine, if you were trying to get as lean as possible?

@canadianboymike that sounds crazy, what was your diet like doing this?
so you think it would be better to do an all whey protein and fruit juice diet, vs having like 65g fat from whole milk daily plus whey protein and fruit juice? you dont think saturated fat has benefits?
for muscle building purposes wouldnt 150g or 200g protein be better than 80g or 120g?

Sorry not sure which you’re referring to as crazy..?

But I think 1g per kilogram would probably be enough so long as calories are in a surplus. Mostly being from carbohydrates will have the insulin response plus the extra energy to build muscle and recover etc. I’ve done it with extra protein (1g per pound or more) and you can definitely build muscle that way but overall energy is worse which can effect your life negatively but also lifting weights as well.

I wouldn’t recommend protein powders though if you had access to real protein from milk, meat or even some plant sources. I think the body needs very little saturated or any dietary fat. But it tastes amazing and if you need to gain weight than it can be very useful.

 

[Dr. B]

Sorry not sure which you’re referring to as crazy..?

But I think 1g per kilogram would probably be enough so long as calories are in a surplus. Mostly being from carbohydrates will have the insulin response plus the extra energy to build muscle and recover etc. I’ve done it with extra protein (1g per pound or more) and you can definitely build muscle that way but overall energy is worse which can effect your life negatively but also lifting weights as well.

I wouldn’t recommend protein powders though if you had access to real protein from milk, meat or even some plant sources. I think the body needs very little saturated or any dietary fat. But it tastes amazing and if you need to gain weight than it can be very useful.

saturated fats arent needed for hormone production?
is it more about carb to protein ratio than overall amount? so double or triple the carbs of the protein and thats good? also supposedly fruits have a lot of secret things that work like proteins, so for example a liter of orange juice might have the same carbs as a liter of soda, but the orange juice has other things in it that might act like protein.
i wanted to maintin calcium phosphate ratio, and also keep fat lower, as well as not consume any added vitamins A/D in milk. so my only option seems to be whole milk plus some organic whey with fruit juice. unless i use something like yogurt, but that might have lactic acid issues.

 

[RealNeat]

saturated fats arent needed for hormone production?
is it more about carb to protein ratio than overall amount? so double or triple the carbs of the protein and thats good? also supposedly fruits have a lot of secret things that work like proteins, so for example a liter of orange juice might have the same carbs as a liter of soda, but the orange juice has other things in it that might act like protein.
i wanted to maintin calcium phosphate ratio, and also keep fat lower, as well as not consume any added vitamins A/D in milk. so my only option seems to be whole milk plus some organic whey with fruit juice. unless i use something like yogurt, but that might have lactic acid issues.

Enough carbs help preserve lean body mass if eating to maintenance, even with low protein. Ray has a 8 or so ounce glass of OJ worth of sugar for every egg worth of protein ~7gs. Keto acids in fruit with ammonia help form amino acids but I don't think they contribute to nitrogen balance. If low protein I doubt you'd need to worry to much about calcium phosphate ratio. Yoghurt is a good food imo, unless its really sour.

 

[Dr. B]

Enough carbs help preserve lean body mass if eating to maintenance, even with low protein. Ray has a 8 or so ounce glass of OJ worth of sugar for every egg worth of protein ~7gs. Keto acids in fruit with ammonia help form amino acids but I don't think they contribute to nitrogen balance. If low protein I doubt you'd need to worry to much about calcium phosphate ratio. Yoghurt is a good food imo, unless its really sour.

thats just 8oz OJ for each egg right, or is it 8oz OJ of carbs per 7g overall protein? 8oz OJ I think is 26g carbs so thats almost 4:1 carb to protein ratio.
its interesting in milk its 11.5 ratio of fat protein carbs

 

[canadianboymike]

saturated fats arent needed for hormone production?
is it more about carb to protein ratio than overall amount? so double or triple the carbs of the protein and thats good? also supposedly fruits have a lot of secret things that work like proteins, so for example a liter of orange juice might have the same carbs as a liter of soda, but the orange juice has other things in it that might act like protein.
i wanted to maintin calcium phosphate ratio, and also keep fat lower, as well as not consume any added vitamins A/D in milk. so my only option seems to be whole milk plus some organic whey with fruit juice. unless i use something like yogurt, but that might have lactic acid issues.

I’m sure Sat. Fats are needed for hormone production but still think it’s a low amount plus our body can produce it if needed. You can feel when your hormones and libido go out of whack but I’ve only noticed it when my calories were low. If you’re eating a surplus it shouldn’t be much of an issue, although playing around with it is a good idea to see what fits you best.

I would go at least 4 to 1 carbs to protein and you could go higher than that likely. As long as fat is low and protein is low/moderate.

I’ve heard this from Peat about fruits and potatoes containing lots of protein but I’ve never seen that in any studies. I’m very interested in the idea.

You could always just supplement with egg shells for calcium and do away with the whole milk if you’re trying to keep fat super low. Milk tastes amazing though so it would be hard to give up. But to get your calcium ratio you would need a ton of milk and thus you would be getting a lot of fat too.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

IMO saying one wont supplement vitamin D is like saying, "I wont eat sugar because its not the whole fruit." Yes, its not the whole deal, but that does not mean it doesnt have benefits or that it should be avoided. Do you have some other reason? I dont want to derail the thread, but im curious.

Supplemental Vitamin D is poison. Countless reports of people ruining their health with D3.
People are waking up to the truth.

 

[canadianboymike]

Supplemental Vitamin D is poison. Countless reports of people ruining their health with D3.
People are waking up to the truth.

I’m interested in this. I supplement with D3. I’ve had low levels for a while until I supplemented and now they’re in high normal range. Do you think it would be better to have low levels than to take a supplement? Do you have any studies showing what you’re saying?

 

[Dr. B]

Supplemental Vitamin D is poison. Countless reports of people ruining their health with D3.
People are waking up to the truth.

@RealNeat do you know if D is immune boosting or suppressing? If its being advised for covid and the cold, it must be immune boosting? And means it has potential to cause or exacerbate autoimmunity maybe?

 

[DonLore]

Well, if your country (which I assume isn't the US) still raises pork the same way with the same feed that they used when they did the database measurements for pork, then great. You don't have much to worry about.

But as both Peat and Brad have pointed out, the fat in pigs and chickens (like the fat in humans) reflects the fat in their diet, so, more PUFA in the diet, more PUFA in the fat. So, I would certainly think the pig fat in the US is going to have a lot more PUFA than is reported in the USDA database, and Cronometer. With the explosion in soy manufacturing and using soy in feed, I would suspect a lot of pig fat in other countries is lot more unsaturated than when the database, if they have started to add more soy to pig feed.

As for lean pork, Brad suggests that commercial pork trimmed of visible fat is likely fine, as would be chicken breast.

I think I will only have lean pork from now on. But the problem is, food is getting too expensive so not always possible to eat 100% optimally.

 

[yerrag]

I think I will only have lean pork from now on. But the problem is, food is getting too expensive so not always possible to eat 100% optimally.

Pork belly tastes best even with the fat removed.

American pigs have more fat because they are raised to make good bacon. And good bacon have thick fat layers.

This isn't the case with pigs raised in many Asian countries. When I wanted to buy pork bellies in the US, I had to go to Chinatown or to an Asian grocer to find leaner cuts of pork belly.

 

[Richiebogie]

The pigeon I have been looking after always preferred to eat the little black canola seeds from the seed mix, and I would empty the uneaten seeds to give to the wild birds and refresh “Fledgling’s” seed supply each day!

She began losing head feathers.

I gave her a different blend with much less canola in it and her feathers came back within 3 weeks!

Canola has become the most common fat found in potato crisps and processed foods.

Canola seed is 40% fat, and more than 1/4 of that is PUFA.

I suppose the people who want to depopulate the planet know it is toxic and encourage its use.

Hopefully you can spread the story of my pigeon in the canola mine!

 

[Lollipop2]

The pigeon I have been looking after always preferred to eat the little black canola seeds from the seed mix, and I would empty the uneaten seeds to give to the wild birds and refresh “Fledgling’s” seed supply each day!

She began losing head feathers.

View attachment 39501

I gave her a different blend with much less canola in it and her feathers came back within 3 weeks!

View attachment 39502

Canola has become the most common fat found in potato crisps and processed foods.

Canola seed is 40% fat, and more than 1/4 of that is PUFA.

I suppose the people who want to depopulate the planet know it is toxic and encourage its use.

Hopefully you can spread the story of my pigeon in the canola mine!

How interesting @Richiebogie! Thanks for sharing this with pictures!!

 

[Motorneuron]

Did you know that PUFAs inhibit GS3KB and are PPAR gamma agonists? are you always so sure they're evil? are two very powerful genes / enzymes ...

 

[Dr. B]

Did you know that PUFAs inhibit GS3KB and are PPAR gamma agonists? are you always so sure they're evil? are two very powerful genes / enzymes ...

what do those two enzymes do

 

[tankasnowgod]

what do those two enzymes do

Make you fat and slow down your metabolism.

 

[Dr. B]

Make you fat and slow down your metabolism.

that person is saying PUFA inhibit gs3kb

 

[Dr. B]

Well, if your country (which I assume isn't the US) still raises pork the same way with the same feed that they used when they did the database measurements for pork, then great. You don't have much to worry about.

But as both Peat and Brad have pointed out, the fat in pigs and chickens (like the fat in humans) reflects the fat in their diet, so, more PUFA in the diet, more PUFA in the fat. So, I would certainly think the pig fat in the US is going to have a lot more PUFA than is reported in the USDA database, and Cronometer. With the explosion in soy manufacturing and using soy in feed, I would suspect a lot of pig fat in other countries is lot more unsaturated than when the database, if they have started to add more soy to pig feed.

As for lean pork, Brad suggests that commercial pork trimmed of visible fat is likely fine, as would be chicken breast.

what happens if a chicken, pig or human is in a poor metabolic state but eating mostly SFA or MUFA, or on a low fat diet? is the fat in them mostly MUFA or SFA even though theyre in a poor metabolic state.

 

[tankasnowgod]

that person is saying PUFA inhibit gs3kb

My response was basically flippant, but I did know that PPAR Gamma makes your metabolism slow down, and seems to activate fat storage. Eating more PUFA gives the same results.

Not really familiar with the other enzyme, but since it seems to stimulate glycogen storage, I wouldn't think inhibiting it with something toxic like PUFA would be a good idea.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

I’m interested in this. I supplement with D3. I’ve had low levels for a while until I supplemented and now they’re in high normal range. Do you think it would be better to have low levels than to take a supplement? Do you have any studies showing what you’re saying?

Sorry, I don't have much at hand. The theory that I read being that low levels of Vitamin D being a symptom of disease, not a cause of disease. So something is using up that D to cope with disease/ inbalance.

TL;DR: I stupidly overdosed on Vitamin D (20,000IU/day for 2 months) in 2017, and developed leg numbness, bone/muscle pain, and severe anxiety. This was despite taking it with high doses of Magnesium Citrate (400mg/day) and Vitamin K (K1+K2-MK4+K2-MK-7, all types). My Vitamin D levels have been normal already 2.5 months after ceasing intake, and so have my calcium levels (8.9mg/dL). It has been 1 year since stopping Vitamin D intake and my symptoms have only slightly improved. Is it permanent? Did anyone else have a similar experience?

I took 10.000 to 12.000 IU per day for about a year, orally.

I took a higher dose after reading studies by Peter McCullough that even doses that are an order of magnitude higher don‘t have side-effects in clinical patients. That was pretty stupid of me, because I am not a clinical patient.

I ended up with pissing out kidney stones and debilitating vertigo, which apparently is not a common symptom of Vitamin D toxicity, but the crystals in the inner ear are formed from calcium. Since both side effects happened around the same time, I suspect they were connected. Both also disappeared when I stopped supplementing.

I want to get my liver and kidney checked again, and I am a bit concerned about the possibility of having developed irreversible artherosclerosis from too much calcium (though I don‘t have any symptoms).

 

[sunny]

Sorry, I don't have much at hand. The theory that I read being that low levels of Vitamin D being a symptom of disease, not a cause of disease. So something is using up that D to cope with disease/ inbalance.

Did those people report what their 25oh D level was? I don't think I have ever heard Peat recommend 10,12,20,000 iu of D daily.