Best lab tests for estrogen status

[mad539]

Hi,

what are the best lab tests to asses estrogen status? My last prolactin was rather high (12.2 ng/ml, 2.6-13.1 range), but i don't remember if i had an orgasm the day before or not.

I have hard time gaining muscle mass and most of my fat is around the butt and belly (always has been). Fatigue is also a big issue and joint pain.

Here are some labs from the past:
E2 (Estradiol): 68.8 pmol/L (range: 99.4 - 192) -> Another test showed <15 mg/ml

Thanks

 

[xeliex]

I've heard Georgi talk about estrone sulfate and how it can be more representative.

 

[retroactive]

Prolactin could be useful to know

 

[mad539]

Thanks, sadly i can only test estrone or estradiol, not estrone sulfate in the labs around me. Tomorrow i let get prolactin, estrone, estradiol and progesterone checked.

 

[meatbag]

Hi,

what are the best lab tests to asses estrogen status? My last prolactin was rather high (12.2 ng/ml, 2.6-13.1 range), but i don't remember if i had an orgasm the day before or not.

I have hard time gaining muscle mass and most of my fat is around the butt and belly (always has been). Fatigue is also a big issue and joint pain.

Here are some labs from the past:
E2 (Estradiol): 68.8 pmol/L (range: 99.4 - 192) -> Another test showed <15 mg/ml

Thanks

Have you gotten your vitamin D and thyroid (TSH, TOTAL thyroxine, & TOTAL T3) checked?

 

[mad539]

My last Vitamin D was high (227 nmol/L) as i take regularly 5.000 to 20.000 IEs. PTH was low (2.8 pmol/L).
My last thyroid results:

TSH: 1.98 mIU/L
TOTAL T3: 0.856 µg/L (0.67 - 1.68)
TOTAL T4: 75.1 µg/L (45 - 125)
FREE T3: 3.36 ng/L (2.3 - 4.22)
FREE T4: 1.22 ng/dL (0.90 - 1.90)

All three antibodies are below threshold. The results stated they were "normal" and in range, but i still felt like crap all the time and had all the hypothyroid (constipation, freezing all the time, brain fog, dry skin, ...) symptoms. I started T4 on my own with 75mcg per day, but it went even more downhill very fast (way worse constipation, ...). I think this must be then a T4->T3 conversion for whatever reason, and i even tested my labs with the SPINA Thyr app and it also said that there must be a conversion issue.

I then started T3 only and i'm in the phase of waiting for suppressed TSH and T4, so that no rT3 is in system which could mess with me. What changed is that i'm not freezing anymore and i'm warm the whole day. Constipation is a bit better, but this could be due to my diet change (not peaty, as i can't handle fructose and milk). Skin is no more dry. The rest is unchanged (brain fog, concentration, memory issues, dissociation).

Then i noticed my high prolactin and very low estrogen. My progesterone is 0.7 nmol/L (range <0.159 - 0.474), but it seems they changed the ranges, the old ranges were 0.70 - 4.2 nmol/L (@Broco6679, Elevated Progesterone?).

Other labs:
DHEA-S: 1.8 mg/L (1.6 - 4.5)
Pregnelonesulfate: 42 µg/L (27 -80)
Testosterone: 8.1 µg/L (2.49 - 8.38)
free Testosterone: 17 ng/L (7 - 22.7)
FSH: 2.8 IU/L (1.5 - 12.4)
LH: 1.9 IU/L (1.7 - 8.6)

All labs were before T4 or T3 meds.

 

[meatbag]

My last Vitamin D was high (227 nmol/L) as i take regularly 5.000 to 20.000 IEs. PTH was low (2.8 pmol/L).
My last thyroid results:

TSH: 1.98 mIU/L
TOTAL T3: 0.856 µg/L (0.67 - 1.68)
TOTAL T4: 75.1 µg/L (45 - 125)
FREE T3: 3.36 ng/L (2.3 - 4.22)
FREE T4: 1.22 ng/dL (0.90 - 1.90)

All three antibodies are below threshold. The results stated they were "normal" and in range, but i still felt like crap all the time and had all the hypothyroid (constipation, freezing all the time, brain fog, dry skin, ...) symptoms. I started T4 on my own with 75mcg per day, but it went even more downhill very fast (way worse constipation, ...). I think this must be then a T4->T3 conversion for whatever reason, and i even tested my labs with the SPINA Thyr app and it also said that there must be a conversion issue.

I then started T3 only and i'm in the phase of waiting for suppressed TSH and T4, so that no rT3 is in system which could mess with me. What changed is that i'm not freezing anymore and i'm warm the whole day. Constipation is a bit better, but this could be due to my diet change (not peaty, as i can't handle fructose and milk). Skin is no more dry. The rest is unchanged (brain fog, concentration, memory issues, dissociation).

Then i noticed my high prolactin and very low estrogen. My progesterone is 0.7 nmol/L (range <0.159 - 0.474), but it seems they changed the ranges, the old ranges were 0.70 - 4.2 nmol/L (@Broco6679, Elevated Progesterone?).

Other labs:
DHEA-S: 1.8 mg/L (1.6 - 4.5)
Pregnelonesulfate: 42 µg/L (27 -80)
Testosterone: 8.1 µg/L (2.49 - 8.38)
free Testosterone: 17 ng/L (7 - 22.7)
FSH: 2.8 IU/L (1.5 - 12.4)
LH: 1.9 IU/L (1.7 - 8.6)

All labs were before T4 or T3 meds.

what is the reference range on the nmol/L vitamin D test, ive never seen it reported like that

 

[mad539]

Yes i hate it when they always use different units between labs. The range is 75-250 nmol/L, 227 nmol/L VD3 is 90.80 ng/ml converted.

 

[meatbag]

Yes i hate it when they always use different units between labs. The range is 75-250 nmol/L, 227 nmol/L VD3 is 90.80 ng/ml converted.

okay thanks have you gotten LDH or lactic acid tested or have results form a CBC& lipid (cholesterol) panel? do you consume liver at all?

With your symptoms it could be bacterial overgrowth which might explain the digestive problems with milk and fructose (im assuming its diarrhea or bloating?), insufficient vitamin A and cholesterol for the thyroid to act and convert properly, or maybe an insufficient nutrient in the respritory chain (ex. vitamin B1). You could possibly have also been consuming excessive amounts of phosphate for a very long time.

 

[mad539]

No, had a big histamine reaction the last times. But might try it again in lower amounts. It seems as my T3 levels are rising and my hypo symptoms are getting better, my histamine reactions also get better. Do you think liver will help with with estrogen?

I just saw a video of haidut for this specific issue:

View: https://youtu.be/VdYRyL2p7Cc?t=7689


He says (if i can repeat it correctly), that when estrogen is very low in the blood, that it can be very high in the cell. Prolactin seems to be a proxy marker for that (which is high in me). So when someone takes progesterone, it seems the estrogen will start to go up highly for around 10 days (comes out of the cells), and will then normalize.

I ordered progestene from haidut and will make that experiment.

 

[meatbag]

No, had a big histamine reaction the last times. But might try it again in lower amounts. It seems as my T3 levels are rising and my hypo symptoms are getting better, my histamine reactions also get better. Do you think liver will help with with estrogen?

I just saw a video of haidut for this specific issue:

View: https://youtu.be/VdYRyL2p7Cc?t=7689


He says (if i can repeat it correctly), that when estrogen is very low in the blood, that it can be very high in the cell. Prolactin seems to be a proxy marker for that (which is high in me). So when someone takes progesterone, it seems the estrogen will start to go up highly for around 10 days (comes out of the cells), and will then normalize.

I ordered progestene from haidut and will make that experiment.

If estrogen in the tissues are higher than oxidative metabolism in the tissues is low, thyroid needs cholesterol and vitamin A to produce progesterone and other steroids in tissues.

If you can't consume fructose or lactose your cholesterol might be low

 

[mad539]

My cholsterin is rather high (223 mg/dl) and i eat around 80gr of saturated fats every day (beef tallow, butter, beef steak with fat, some dark chocolate).

 

[mad539]

With your symptoms it could be bacterial overgrowth which might explain the digestive problems with milk and fructose (im assuming its diarrhea or bloating?), insufficient vitamin A and cholesterol for the thyroid to act and convert properly, or maybe an insufficient nutrient in the respritory chain (ex. vitamin B1). You could possibly have also been consuming excessive amounts of phosphate for a very long time.

It's constipation and bloating. Vitamin A was normal/high some years ago.

My phosphours intake is around 2500mg a day (checked with cronometer), but my calcium intake is very low. What's strange is, i don't nearly reach 500mg of calcium a day for many years, but my PTH is very low and my vitamin D is very high. I don't have osteoporosis and my bone health is good (tested with a bone scan). I'm now supplementing with calcium and drink high calcium mineral water to reach at least 1000 mg per day, just to be sure. I find that calcium relaxes me and takes the edge off.

B1 is also very interesting. I was carb interolant for many years (extremly tired and dizzy after eating 50gr rice), and 200mg thiamin HCL a day fixed that instantly. I now tolerate over 100gr of carbs without big issues. I've read londsdale and overton posts about B1, and i might try supplementing TTFD again when i fixed the sulfate issue (bloating and stomach pain after taking 100mg TTFD). I might have a molybdenum deficency here, because the last time i tested TTFD the symptoms weren't as bad as some months before, and i've taken some molybdenum in between.

I've got my thyroid test result back:

It seems i finally supressed my TSH and fT4, so that only the T3 i take is active. Therefore there shouldn't be any rT3 around.
With T3-only, i finally feel warm and my skin is no longer dry, but the constipation and the mental issues are still there, so something else is at play. But it is early (2 months in), maybe it just needs more time.

Here is the latest lipid panel:

I don't have lactic acid tested. Does it makes sense? Here is my latest CBC (in german):

I have low neutrophils for some years now, but no idea why (my doc says, it could be the lyme).

 

[ecstatichamster]

Estrone itself is good for a lab test proxy for overall estrogen.

 

[meatbag]

It's constipation and bloating. Vitamin A was normal/high some years ago.

My phosphours intake is around 2500mg a day (checked with cronometer), but my calcium intake is very low. What's strange is, i don't nearly reach 500mg of calcium a day for many years, but my PTH is very low and my vitamin D is very high. I don't have osteoporosis and my bone health is good (tested with a bone scan). I'm now supplementing with calcium and drink high calcium mineral water to reach at least 1000 mg per day, just to be sure. I find that calcium relaxes me and takes the edge off.

B1 is also very interesting. I was carb interolant for many years (extremly tired and dizzy after eating 50gr rice), and 200mg thiamin HCL a day fixed that instantly. I now tolerate over 100gr of carbs without big issues. I've read londsdale and overton posts about B1, and i might try supplementing TTFD again when i fixed the sulfate issue (bloating and stomach pain after taking 100mg TTFD). I might have a molybdenum deficency here, because the last time i tested TTFD the symptoms weren't as bad as some months before, and i've taken some molybdenum in between.

I've got my thyroid test result back:
View attachment 24830
It seems i finally supressed my TSH and fT4, so that only the T3 i take is active. Therefore there shouldn't be any rT3 around.
With T3-only, i finally feel warm and my skin is no longer dry, but the constipation and the mental issues are still there, so something else is at play. But it is early (2 months in), maybe it just needs more time.

Here is the latest lipid panel:
View attachment 24831

I don't have lactic acid tested. Does it makes sense? Here is my latest CBC (in german):
View attachment 24832
I have low neutrophils for some years now, but no idea why (my doc says, it could be the lyme).

okay yeah, if your thyroid is improving and your still having issues like that it could be insufficient vitamin A (see below) and with your diet you might benefit from vitamin B1 and B3 (niacinamide) especially if you're having issues with fruit juice and don't consume milk. Egg shells might help you get more calcium in your diet, just boil them and put in the oven for a few minutes and then powder them up. You might try an antibiotic to see that improves you ability to digest dairy and fruit juice.

High free fatty acids can interfere with the action of thyroid and so does Nitric oxide. So niacinamide and aspirin might help reduce lipolysis and NO

So is your diet mostly meat and white rice? Eating more potatoes might help with getting more B1and other minerals
--

(source: functional performance systems-Protect the Mitochondria – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

 

[mad539]

My diet is currently chicken/beef + rice + some vegetable (zucchini) +fat (butter, ghee, beef tallow) and the occasional dark chocolate. It is the only diet i tolerated the last months without bloating and heavy digestive issues. I hope that i tolerate more foods now with working thyroid hormones. Normally my face is always redish and looked distressed when eating anything (or rising in the monring), that is now no longer the case.

I've read that you should reach a 2:1 ratio of calcium of phosphorus, is this still correct? Seems excessive in my case.

Next week i will check if i tolerate liver, and if that's the case, i try to include that into my diet. Currently i'm not taking any B complex anymore because that exaggerated my histamine issues. I will still try B1 and B3 next week.

@ecstatichamster: Thanks, i've now tested Prolactin, Progesterone, E1 (Estrone), E2 (Estradiol) and E3 (Estriol) and wait for the result.

 

[meatbag]

The liver your biyin

My diet is currently chicken/beef + rice + some vegetable (zucchini) +fat (butter, ghee, beef tallow) and the occasional dark chocolate. It is the only diet i tolerated the last months without bloating and heavy digestive issues. I hope that i tolerate more foods now with working thyroid hormones. Normally my face is always redish and looked distressed when eating anything (or rising in the monring), that is now no longer the case.

I've read that you should reach a 2:1 ratio of calcium of phosphorus, is this still correct? Seems excessive in my case.

Next week i will check if i tolerate liver, and if that's the case, i try to include that into my diet. Currently i'm not taking any B complex anymore because that exaggerated my histamine issues. I will still try B1 and B3 next week.

@ecstatichamster: Thanks, i've now tested Prolactin, Progesterone, E1 (Estrone), E2 (Estradiol) and E3 (Estriol) and wait for the result.

The liver you’re buying, is it frozen and sealed? Or sitting out in frozen? The enzyme content of liver degrades the liver extremely quickly compared to typical muscle meat, that’s why it tastes off most of the time. If it’s consumed the day of slaughter or frozen the day off it is mush better.

most of the b complexes available contain stuff that is allergenic. It seems better to use the isolated niacinamide and thiamine.

have you tried aspirin powder?

yeah I think the ration of calcium to phosphate has been recommended to be as high as possible

it sounds like you might have very slow digestion, not producing enough stomach acid and enzymes due to hypothyroidism and possibly have small intestinal bacterial overgrowth

 

[mad539]

The liver i can get is fresh from the butcher, but i can ask how old the liver is and will check it.

For the moment, i've stopped all supplements which could mess with estrogen (b complex, zinc, vitamin d/k2, vitamin e) and see what my baseline with symptoms is. Some of my symptoms seem to be low estrogen, like anhedonia, no interest in girls/asexual, joints popping.

My digestion is very slow, that is the main symptom i hoped which i could improve with thyroid. With digestive enzymes (enzimedica DIGEST) it works better, but it is no near normal. Estrogen (or progesterone) seems to play a role in constipation too.

 

[mad539]

I've got my test results back:

Prolactin	5.5 ng/ml	Range: 2.6 - 13.1
Progesterone	0.37 ng/ml (1.17 nmol/L)	Range: 0.07 - 1.38
Estrone (E1)	4.6 ng/l	Range: 13 - 149
Estradiol (E2)	17.2 pg/ml	Range: <32
Estriol, free (E3)	<0.07 ng/ml	Range only for pregnant woman: 2.5 to 28.9

The estrogene values seem low even for a man, aren't they?

 

[Julian]

I've got my test results back:

Prolactin	5.5 ng/ml	Range: 2.6 - 13.1
Progesterone	0.37 ng/ml (1.17 nmol/L)	Range: 0.07 - 1.38
Estrone (E1)	4.6 ng/l	Range: 13 - 149
Estradiol (E2)	17.2 pg/ml	Range: <32
Estriol, free (E3)	<0.07 ng/ml	Range only for pregnant woman: 2.5 to 28.9

The estrogene values seem low even for a man, aren't they?

Hey Mad539,

How are you doing now? Have you found any relief from the joint pain?

I'm dealing with joint pain now too, and my estradiol levels are about the same as yours (just got them tested as well). I think our levels are a bit low and I'm not sure If I buy the fact that estrogen is high in the tissues then, it doesn't really make sense that we would be experiencing the joint pain then right...