Topical DHEA for muscle growth and strength gains

[Hans]

Topical DHEA for muscle growth and strength gains » TESTONATION

DHEA is considered a prohormone and not an actual steroid. Although it does lack anabolic and exercise performance-enhancing effects compared to anabolic-androgenic steroids, it’s still banned by WADA. Despite its lack of anabolic effect, it has many benefits, including assisting in muscle...

men-elite.com

What's been your results with topical DHEA?

 

[Foggiato]

Topical DHEA for muscle growth and strength gains » TESTONATION

DHEA is considered a prohormone and not an actual steroid. Although it does lack anabolic and exercise performance-enhancing effects compared to anabolic-androgenic steroids, it’s still banned by WADA. Despite its lack of anabolic effect, it has many benefits, including assisting in muscle...

men-elite.com

What's been your results with topical DHEA?

Hi Hans , firstly I would like to thank you for everything you have done here, and in your Men-elite site.It's helping me a lot.
Regarding the dhea I have used for a long time, however recently that I have figured out the dosage , but everytime I take it I still keep waking up wet during the night, no matter how much I eat. I have trying 30mg boitin , that helps for couples day , honey , everything , my liver doesn't handle 1mg dhea. I have used cortinon from haidut 8mg progesterone and 1 mg .
What do you thing that could help me do evercome that sweet during the night?

 

[Hans]

Hi Hans , firstly I would like to thank you for everything you have done here, and in your Men-elite site.It's helping me a lot.
Regarding the dhea I have used for a long time, however recently that I have figured out the dosage , but everytime I take it I still keep waking up wet during the night, no matter how much I eat. I have trying 30mg boitin , that helps for couples day , honey , everything , my liver doesn't handle 1mg dhea. I have used cortinon from haidut 8mg progesterone and 1 mg .
What do you thing that could help me do evercome that sweet during the night?

My pleasure man and thanks for reading.
DHEA converts to androsterone which has strong pro-metabolic effects. Maybe your andro is high after having DHEA for a long time. Do you have typical hypothyroid symptoms, such as mental slowness, cold hands and feet, low core temps, slow or rapid heart rate?
When you wake up in a sweat, is that a stress response?
When do you eat your last meal before bed? Like how many hours?

 

[76er]

I've been taking 25mg of DHEA for about the last 6 weeks in tablet form.

I'm 50 and do ~40 min of resistance exercise 6x's a week.

After the first month my libido went up noticeable.
Muscle growth has been solid but I haven't been measuring for
hypertrophy.

I've also started taking Vitamin D (5K iu) and K2 with the DHEA during the 6 weeks so next
I'd like to take just topical DHEA in isolation. I'll report back if I do that trial.

Thanks for the link to the topical product – saves a bunch of research time.

I heard on one of your outlets that you were concocting a DHEA powder/vodka topical mix.
Do you not recommend that approach now?

 

[Foggiato]

My pleasure man and thanks for reading.
DHEA converts to androsterone which has strong pro-metabolic effects. Maybe your andro is high after having DHEA for a long time. Do you have typical hypothyroid symptoms, such as mental slowness, cold hands and feet, low core temps, slow or rapid heart rate?
When you wake up in a sweat, is that a stress response?
When do you eat your last meal before bed? Like how many hours?

I do have hypothyroid symptoms, very mental slowness and sometimes cold hands. I used to had everyday. For sure is a stress response, very scary sometimes catching my breath, heart pounding very strong, everytime before I wake Up a strong nightmare, just how Ray mentioned before a stress response. I have eaten just before bed , one hour, two hours , everything you can imagine , I have been trying to fix that for fifteen years, no success. I can have a can of condensed milk and in 3 hours sleep this is going to happen. Biotin 30mg sometimes help me to go up to five hours, and when I wake up my armpit smells very sulphuric, sour. I have use vitamin E , pregnenolone, T3, mk4 , Harmalan, metergoline all for ideallabs. It seems something in my liver is not ready to heal and fix my body.
Thanks for you reply!

 

[Hans]

I do have hypothyroid symptoms, very mental slowness and sometimes cold hands. I used to had everyday. For sure is a stress response, very scary sometimes catching my breath, heart pounding very strong, everytime before I wake Up a strong nightmare, just how Ray mentioned before a stress response. I have eaten just before bed , one hour, two hours , everything you can imagine , I have been trying to fix that for fifteen years, no success. I can have a can of condensed milk and in 3 hours sleep this is going to happen. Biotin 30mg sometimes help me to go up to five hours, and when I wake up my armpit smells very sulphuric, sour. I have use vitamin E , pregnenolone, T3, mk4 , Harmalan, metergoline all for ideallabs. It seems something in my liver is not ready to heal and fix my body.
Thanks for you reply!

I'd focus on thyroid. Do you get lots of sunlight? Supplements like taurine and aspirin and oxtail soup improved my sleep a lot when I was hypometabolic. Have you also tried progesterone before?

 

[Foggiato]

I'd focus on thyroid. Do you get lots of sunlight? Supplements like taurine and aspirin and oxtail soup improved my sleep a lot when I was hypometabolic. Have you also tried progesterone before?

I have tried progesterone, however it's killing my erections, even libido I've been filling numb. But I can attest other than that it makes me good.

 

[Hans]

I have tried progesterone, however it's killing my erections, even libido I've been filling numb. But I can attest other than that it makes me good.

There are many compounds that can help calm the adrenals, but it will take time to try one at a time for a while.

 

[Foggiato]

There are many compounds that can help calm the adrenals, but it will take time to try one at a time for a while.

That's what I have noticed.

 

[Bartu]

Hey, I think not only topical works. I take around 5mg oral, (just normal swanson brand) after good warm-up in Gym with creatine, and after this stack I have crazy pumps and strength gains. I think the key with hormones which are precursors (like DHEA)to the other important androgens like Testosterone is not how much dose you take but when you take it. For me timing matters the most. I was taking DHEA in the morning when the cortisol is the highest and I always was getting irritated, maybe it had some more estrogenic effect then. So my idea with supplementing hormones would be to aid a natural processes of your body than to try to force them.

So for me it must be after warm up when your blood comes in the muscles and maybe the body starts natural processes of increasing testosterone,? Correct me if something like this could be possible.(@Hans ???) Then after few sets when fatigue starts to come I take another 5mg and start lifting even heavier... this is when the crazy strength is happening. . I was doing also workouts without this method and trust me there is a difference. (I was also on TRT for sometime so I have comparison) Never taken more than 5mg at once and the second dose is after 30minutes of workout. You don't need to believe me just try it yourself. .

 

[Hans]

Hey, I think not only topical works. I take around 5mg oral, (just normal swanson brand) after good warm-up in Gym with creatine, and after this stack I have crazy pumps and strength gains. I think the key with hormones which are precursors (like DHEA)to the other important androgens like Testosterone is not how much dose you take but when you take it. For me timing matters the most. I was taking DHEA in the morning when the cortisol is the highest and I always was getting irritated, maybe it had some more estrogenic effect then. So my idea with supplementing hormones would be to aid a natural processes of your body than to try to force them.

So for me it must be after warm up when your blood comes in the muscles and maybe the body starts natural processes of increasing testosterone,? Correct me if something like this could be possible.(@Hans ???) Then after few sets when fatigue starts to come I take another 5mg and start lifting even heavier... this is when the crazy strength is happening. . I was doing also workouts without this method and trust me there is a difference. (I was also on TRT for sometime so I have comparison) Never taken more than 5mg at once and the second dose is after 30minutes of workout. You don't need to believe me just try it yourself. .

Oral definitely works, but absorption isn't that great. I prefer topical is it increases 5AR steroids and 7hydroxy DHEA might be better than oral dose. And the half-life is perhaps also much longer with topical use.
I'd use it 30min pre workout, because it needs to be absorbed first. Then as you start to warmup, blood flow to the muscles increases and then you already have the DHEA in your system. I haven't tried the post-workout DHEA though. Might try that though.

 

[Beastmode]

@Hans

Topical DHEA has been a positive for me, 42 year old male, pretty consistently. I go in streaks where I"ll do it everyday, but I do notice a slight difference when I don't use it for 3-5 days. Motivation/drive, libido and muscle tone are definitely more noticeable when on it.

Using my mg scale, I probably put somewhere b/n 10-20 mg dissolved in olive oil, with a little progest-e sometimes, on my upper leg in the late mornings before I go to the gym or walk.

Peat told me there's about a 10% absorption rate, so if true, I'm only getting a few mg into my system.

I'm curious how you calculate absorption rate?

For the record, I did use ideal labs product that has dhea/preg on my scrotum 4 years ago and did notice a strong "manly" effect. However, I didn't feel confident that 1) putting dmso on my sack was safe long term, let alone anything else besides soap :) 2) If I was getting some conversion into estrogen given that I was just starting on T3, milk consumption, etc.

 

[Hans]

@Hans

Topical DHEA has been a positive for me, 42 year old male, pretty consistently. I go in streaks where I"ll do it everyday, but I do notice a slight difference when I don't use it for 3-5 days. Motivation/drive, libido and muscle tone are definitely more noticeable when on it.

Using my mg scale, I probably put somewhere b/n 10-20 mg dissolved in olive oil, with a little progest-e sometimes, on my upper leg in the late mornings before I go to the gym or walk.

Peat told me there's about a 10% absorption rate, so if true, I'm only getting a few mg into my system.

I'm curious how you calculate absorption rate?

For the record, I did use ideal labs product that has dhea/preg on my scrotum 4 years ago and did notice a strong "manly" effect. However, I didn't feel confident that 1) putting dmso on my sack was safe long term, let alone anything else besides soap :) 2) If I was getting some conversion into estrogen given that I was just starting on T3, milk consumption, etc.

Topical DHEA is several times better absorbed than oral DHEA and I'm sure the solvent makes a big difference. DMSO is the best followed by ethanol followed by oil. Oil does probably have a 10% absorption rate and ethanol probably around 30-50% maybe even higher.

As per your question on calculating absorption, I have no idea. Oil is definitely the worse and DMSO the best. Ethanol in somewhere in the middle.

I think the main thing I've noticed is an improvement in muscle tone. Perhaps recovery as well, but not sure. No effect on libido for me as far as I can tell.

 

[Spartan300]

Anyone know what effect supplementing DHEA would have on someone with above ref range DHEA-s?

I am in this position and it seems detrimental from a Libido perspective no matter how small the dose. I struggle to gain muscle mass in spite of this and high androgens.
My guess it is skewed androgen:cortisol ratio

 

[Hans]

Anyone know what effect supplementing DHEA would have on someone with above ref range DHEA-s?

I am in this position and it seems detrimental from a Libido perspective no matter how small the dose. I struggle to gain muscle mass in spite of this and high androgens.
My guess it is skewed androgen:cortisol ratio

DHEA and its metabolites do have anti-cortisol effects, so it should improve the ratio. Perhaps it would be good to combine it with progesterone to lower cortisol even more.

 

[Spartan300]

Thanks Hans, I have tried it with cortinon+ in the past but I have not seen expected benefits which is why I'm confused.

My test results have always been confusing. High T and DHT and above ref range cortisol and DHEA-s for an am test.

 

[Hans]

Thanks Hans, I have tried it with cortinon+ in the past but I have not seen expected benefits which is why I'm confused.

My test results have always been confusing. High T and DHT and above ref range cortisol and DHEA-s for an am test.

It could be that you have desensitized GR in the hypothalamus. Have you ever tested ACTH and 24 hour cortisol?

 

[Matestube]

Topical DHEA for muscle growth and strength gains » TESTONATION

DHEA is considered a prohormone and not an actual steroid. Although it does lack anabolic and exercise performance-enhancing effects compared to anabolic-androgenic steroids, it’s still banned by WADA. Despite its lack of anabolic effect, it has many benefits, including assisting in muscle...

men-elite.com

What's been your results with topical DHEA?

I have just tried 50mg DHEA in DMSO on the scrotum for the past 4 days.
The effects are way too androgenic and not anabolic enough.

Don't get me wrong I love the androgenic effects: it boosted my cognition and made my libido shoot up.
But it deflated my muscles and made me shed water, to the point that my knees started to hurt badly.

I am going to try applying the same dose on my abdomen to see if it favors conversion to estrogens instead to help with joints while keeping the above benefits.

 

[Hans]

I have just tried 50mg DHEA in DMSO on the scrotum for the past 4 days.
The effects are way too androgenic and not anabolic enough.

Don't get me wrong I love the androgenic effects: it boosted my cognition and made my libido shoot up.
But it deflated my muscles and made me shed water, to the point that my knees started to hurt badly.

50mg is a large dose, especially if you apply it on the scrotum. Why such a large dose?
I'd say the anabolic effect is very mild, especially if you're young and healthy, but it gets more anabolic if you're in a suboptimal state.

 

[Matestube]

50mg is a large dose, especially if you apply it on the scrotum. Why such a large dose?
I'd say the anabolic effect is very mild, especially if you're young and healthy, but it gets more anabolic if you're in a suboptimal state.

My rationale is that a large dose like that could trickle down into testosterone in sufficient amounts that I don't have to also take testosterone.
My natty test levels are only 400ng/dl, if I could get them to 800ng/dl with DHEA only I'd be happy.