Sexual Liberation The Downfall Of A Society

[Ableton]

What did you not understand? how old are you and where do you live? its very dam easy to get laid now a days. But if you have a shitty attitude , are depressed or are a nagger you wont. I am trying to share my view from a woman s stand point about things like getting laid, getting jobs if you are an ugly men. I am trying to encourage some men in this posts that seem discouraged due to the perception that bad looks set you back. I argued why I do not think that is the case with examples

And what I meant with the Netherlands example is that beauty and lookism as you said is only regarded or relevant in places where there is a lack of it. Its like the demand of a product. When there is a lot of supply, its demand and price go down. Ofc if there are few designer babies then lookism will become more relevant also if poverty becomes generalised and only few can afford quality protein and food to have beautiful kids. I ask where do you live because we might have different existential perceptions due to complete different reality experiences

Also I am very sorry but you sound a bit childish with the black pilled incel stuff. That classification of reality sounds to me like disconnection from it. What is genetically fitness? Peat argues that genetic determinism is bs. Its all about celular damage. This damage can be caused by bad lack. The celular damage is accumulative and dictates your beauty

What did you not understand about the fact that I have no interest about making this about myself? I don’t need forum therapy or elove from strangers.

also compare what you just wrote with what you wrote earlier: that men are becoming less attractive.

you have a very hard time staying consistent in your arguments, and by the looks of it, keeping emotion out of it

 

[Marie2000]

haha emotions out of it, says who suddenly says I dont need Elove from strangers (angry voice). You dont like my posts? Dont read them easy peazzy.

 

[managing]

Note that sexuality can become about power and control through two imperatives: repression and indulgence. Glorification of sex can be used as a weapon too - and has been used many times throughout history (arguably today too). There is a quote from and an Indian or a Persian general about how the easiest way to conquer a nation in one generation is to make fornication and infidelity common among its youth. Most have also heard how Israelis hijacked Palestinian TV stations and broadcast porn during an invasion in an attempt to weaken the resistance.

By encouraging the population to have an excess interest in sex you make them waste their time on frivolous pursuits that only leave them in a weakened state. It is no coincidence that the mainstream expert opinion (i.e. the authority you are scared of) in the West is that everyone should have as much sex as possible: this gifts the leaders with a pacified and easily controllable population. In this sense unbridled lust, passion and meaningless sex can easily become problematic on a societal scale, even if in the context of your individual life you are observing no negative consequences.


In the same line of thought, you could argue that NOTHING is inherently addictive, be it heroin, gambling, porn, cocaine or what ever. Which would be fine, since addiction is a mere compensation mechanism for unmet physiological, psycho-social or spiritual needs. Yet, just like it is with hard drugs, studies have shown that porn users have less efficient reward processing, smaller prefrontal cortex and more mental health issues, all outcomes which innately further predispose one to addiction.

The Brain and Pornography Consumption
Neuroscience of Internet Pornography Addiction: A Review and Update
Pornography consumption and psychosomatic and depressive symptoms among Swedish adolescents: a longitudinal study

Your first two paragraphs I MOL agree with. You seem to tilt toward the assumption that, although sexual freedom doesn't inherently lead to power and control, it probably will. I would say the probability there is probably reverse, but otherwise I think we agree.

As far as addiction goes, sure. And in this case I would agree that it probably does tilt in that direction. However, I think that is because sexuality is still fairly repressed. Pornography that is not predatory, degrading, and glorifies power and control can and is made. Just like there are recreational drugs that don't hijack the reward mechanisms of the brain like cannabis. If sexuality were less repressed, I argue that these harmful effects wouldn't exist. Just like I can take hydrocodone for pain and not become addicted, one can watch dignified porn and porn and not lose their arousal for their partner.

I would also point out that your argument seems to amount to "this thing [porn] has negative consequences for some, so we should get rid of it [ban/censor it, demean it]. You could apply that to so many topics and find it absurd. Guns, antibiotics, cars, etc.

 

[TheSir]

I would also point out that your argument seems to amount to "this thing [porn] has negative consequences for some, so we should get rid of it [ban/censor it, demean it]. You could apply that to so many topics and find it absurd. Guns, antibiotics, cars, etc.

Rather than banning a harmful thing, I think a better path would be to elevate the society to a point where dependency on harmful things has no reason to form in the first. Of course though, the former would be easy and practical to implement, while the latter would prerequire some quite unfeasible and utopistic changes to the fundamental structures of our society. Who can say if banning porn would result in a better society than keeping it legal? It's a very complex question.

 

[managing]

you only contextualize repression as cultural, and never as biological. there have been multiple philosophers who acknowledged that besides status/wealth/intelligence/social networks another power system exists that plays out hierarchically and is predominantly biologically formed: sex/ access to sex.

you will never be able to explain a feminist that a 5'4 balding indian is more oppressed than an attractive white woman though, and if she is going to admit it, then only on the basis of nationality/race, and never attractiveness.

when you go further down the rabbit hole and realize that attractiveness is distributed uneven through races (whether pictures of attractiveness are mostly biologically or culturally acquired is irrelevant in this context) you actually come to realize that a huge part of racism is just lookism.

I remember having read that a black woman was not allowed to enter some expensive fashion shop. They showed a picture of her. She was ugly. Of course the whole article was about racism. Someone in the comments said: Would naomi campbell not have been able to enter either? Of course she would have, but a larger % of black women than white women would not meet the attractiveness threshold to enter (in the west at least). It's an attractiveness threshold, not a race threshold. At the same time you can bet your money that many white supremacists would date a black woman if she is significantly more attractive than the white women they could get. So again, race barriers are merely a looks barrier. Some white supremacists actually got exposed for that by based black women. Cultural marxists (I actually dislike the term as well, find a better one) even ackknowledge with their concept of intersectionality that different factors can melt to ones disadvantage (eg being female AND homosexual) but they do not ackknowledge looks. I suspect because the argument undermines racism, because it melts with it.

Now go on and apply this to job interviews, choice of sex partners etc. Looks open doors, not only in the literal sense.

The most blackpilling studies on lookism are probably the multiple studies proving that attractive people get weaker sentences in what we think are objective courts for the same crime than ugly people. It's hardwired somewhere in us that these people have higher value, and therefore should return to society sooner. Not even ******* courts transcend lookism.

Ugly people also commit more crimes obviously, because they have less opportunities to get good jobs etc.

Looks aren't everything, but its certainly the most underadressed elephant in the room. Why is it underadressed? Precisely because people know it already, but hide it deep down in their ego shields. For ugly young people it is extremely hurtful to talk about it, and for attractive people its uncomfortable. It's good to know about all of this to not fall for the lookism trap yourself when you interact with people in everyday life.
I think everyone can understand that it's probably not the best idea to bring this whole concept up in a class at university filled with people of different attractiveness, races, sexual backgrounds. No one talks openly about this outside of the internet.

If designer babies or eugenics happen on a mass scale and everyone gets attractive, you can bet your money on the fact that lookism will start being talked about openly and on par with racism, class etc. to understand human history, with lookism becoming increasingly relevant in liberal, abundant civilizations with less cultural and economical pressure, and less war. So to come back to your post: liberalization just shifts the opression towards biological factors. Ironically, freedom evokes the beast in us. And creates incels.

The less repressed sexuality is, the more it can be weaponized by women. You must surely see this.

Guess what incles would be doing, if you took the cultural protection of women away. They would get their sex.

Right now, its partly state of nature (sexual liberation) partly state of culture (laws preventing rape). Boom, Incels. Disclaimer: I am in favor of the latter, but not the former.

The idea that lookism is a thing is clear and obvious. Amir Khan will fare better than the the Indian man you described. But at the end of the day, even he is likely in many contexts to be treated as an other. But you are mistaken in thinking that it is lookism INSTEAD of (insert -ism). It can be all of these simultaneously.

But I don't agree at all that less repressed sexuality makes less weaponized sexuality. Quite the opposite. Once again, you only see fault in others, and not in yourself. You are the one weaponizing sexuality. Thing-ing good looks. Making a technology of appearance. And raging against others for exploiting what you have built.

 

[Ableton]

haha emotions out of it, says who suddenly says I dont need Elove from strangers (angry voice). You dont like my posts? Dont read them easy peazzy.

I just point out errors in your argumentative consistency. You say I sound childish while you are the one imputing I said something with an angry voice, when I just meant it in the literal sense. You had valuable points to bring to the discussion when you entered it and are now failing to stay logical, in my opinion. I am hoping you go back to quality comments which is why I will keep reading yours for now. You are welcome to put me on ignore though, if you do not want to engage with my content

 

[R J]

I typed up a big idealized nation state policy for dealing with porn drugs abuse but it’s mostly fantasizing at this point. Better not to engage in such far off pursuits when there’s more immediate issues

 

[Ableton]

The idea that lookism is a thing is clear and obvious. Amir Khan will fare better than the the Indian man you described. But at the end of the day, even he is likely in many contexts to be treated as an other. But you are mistaken in thinking that it is lookism INSTEAD of (insert -ism). It can be all of these simultaneously.

But I don't agree at all that less repressed sexuality makes less weaponized sexuality. Quite the opposite. Once again, you only see fault in others, and not in yourself. You are the one weaponizing sexuality. Thing-ing good looks. Making a technology of appearance. And raging against others for exploiting what you have built.

You do not agree with the basic premise that unattractive young men have a hard time getting laid right now in the west? There are self reported studies on it (in reality it’s worse)
If you do agree however, can you explain how this is not oppression, while cultural constraints are?
I would be curious to hear your reasoning

 

[managing]

Thank you! I feel sexuality is being used exactly in the way someone pointed out earlier. Sort of like the romans motto, show and bread? People are now distracted with hd porn Instagram fake realities fake intimacy etc while our rights like privacy, anonymity etc disappear or while our world is shifted to big brother type of world but as long as the youth has its porn and distraction outlets no one will complain or be aware of.

It is a great point. Some of it may be a chicken/egg phenomenon. If I go on a large porn site, the vast majority of it isn't appealing to me. It's violent, demeaning, simplistic, and fake. But if I poke around in the margins (pun not intended) I can find, for example, old French porn from the 60s-80s. Natural women, unshaven, ordinary men not on viagra, and often (but not always) not demeaning or misogynistic. This I can enjoy (for example). But I am conscious of how unappealing the "front page" is to me. No doubt there are those who are still developing and too receptive who just find the silicon and tattooed oddities playing out caricatures of femininity/masculinity must be "normal" and try to plug themselves into it. They will always find themselves with too small manhood, muscles, staying power (or too small breasts and too little passion) and so on.

And in any event, if it starts interfering with living life . . . well, its probably too special. Alcohol is a great corollary. When I grew up it was a big deal. Much energy and thought went into acquiring and consuming it. It was an object of desire. I raise my 15 yr old daughter with a (small) glass of wine right along with her mother and I. To the best I can tell it is working. No fetishization of alcohol. Its just an ordinary thing. Hopefully we are doing the same with sexuality. We don't hide it. We don't shield her from it. But we don't we do not allow her to be exposed to the most blatant expressions of it either. When she is unavoidably (say a billboard for a "Gentleman's Club") she seems to have an appropriately wry, ironic perspective on it.

I'm really not trying to virtue signal here. I just find it convenient to tell the story from my perspective.

 

[R J]

You do not agree with the basic premise that unattractive young men have a hard time getting laid right now in the west? There are self reported studies on it (in reality it’s worse)
If you do agree however, can you explain how this is not oppression, while cultural constraints are?
I would be curious to hear your reasoning

There’s some great sex workers out there. If a guy needs to get some and can get over the stigma, going to escort can be nice. One of the best lovemaking I ever got was from a prostitute. I hold my experience with her as a fond memory that really gave me a lot of confidence and support at the time. That girl was amazing.

I also had totally terrible spiritually draining experiences too. Gotta find the right one

 

[managing]

Rather than banning a harmful thing, I think a better path would be to elevate the society to a point where dependency on harmful things has no reason to form in the first. Of course though, the former would be easy and practical to implement, while the latter would prerequire some quite unfeasible and utopistic changes to the fundamental structures of our society. Who can say if banning porn would result in a better society than keeping it legal? It's a very complex question.

Cool. I agree. I will always default toward opening rather than closing. But the road to perdition is lined with good intentions, no?

 

[Ableton]

It is a great point. Some of it may be a chicken/egg phenomenon. If I go on a large porn site, the vast majority of it isn't appealing to me. It's violent, demeaning, simplistic, and fake. But if I poke around in the margins (pun not intended) I can find, for example, old French porn from the 60s-80s. Natural women, unshaven, ordinary men not on viagra, and often (but not always) not demeaning or misogynistic. This I can enjoy (for example). But I am conscious of how unappealing the "front page" is to me. No doubt there are those who are still developing and too receptive who just find the silicon and tattooed oddities playing out caricatures of femininity/masculinity must be "normal" and try to plug themselves into it. They will always find themselves with too small manhood, muscles, staying power (or too small breasts and too little passion) and so on.

And in any event, if it starts interfering with living life . . . well, its probably too special. Alcohol is a great corollary. When I grew up it was a big deal. Much energy and thought went into acquiring and consuming it. It was an object of desire. I raise my 15 yr old daughter with a (small) glass of wine right along with her mother and I. To the best I can tell it is working. No fetishization of alcohol. Its just an ordinary thing. Hopefully we are doing the same with sexuality. We don't hide it. We don't shield her from it. But we don't we do not allow her to be exposed to the most blatant expressions of it either. When she is unavoidably (say a billboard for a "Gentleman's Club") she seems to have an appropriately wry, ironic perspective on it.

I'm really not trying to virtue signal here. I just find it convenient to tell the story from my perspective.

does she use tik tok, instagram?

 

[R J]

does she use tik tok, instagram?

This made me giggle. You have a witty sense of humour

 

[managing]

You do not agree with the basic premise that unattractive young men have a hard time getting laid right now in the west? There are self reported studies on it (in reality it’s worse)
If you do agree however, can you explain how this is not oppression, while cultural constraints are?
I would be curious to hear your reasoning

Oppression requires an oppressor. But honestly, getting laid is as easy as it ever was. Which is to say, frustratingly difficult at times, and bizarrely easy at other times. I know fat and ugly young people who get laid quite easily. The problem is when people have an idealization of the opposite sex that they can't see through. I realize you find it unpleasant to make this personal, but its unavoidable. It is clear that you have an extremely idealized notion of beauty in women, such that only a very narrow range will do. Meanwhile, it is a woman who (apparently) is unavailable to you. Which reflects in your perception of male beauty--a standard you don't achieve in your own opinion (it seems). Which makes you resent the women who say you aren't good enough.

But the truth is, there are lots of beautiful women in the world. Being open to seeing beauty in myriad places is truly liberating. And wonderful for one's self-esteem, because some of them are going to find you attractive. Guaranteed.

 

[managing]

does she use tik tok, instagram?

No Tik Tok and she doesn't have Insta either. She has a second cousin who does, with predictable results. The cousin is in her twenties and my 15 year old sees how her cousin acts as if all she has going for her is her beauty. She is quite attractive. But she is also very intelligent and truly kind and charming. But she only sees herself as valuable due to her beauty. It is quite sad, and yes I do realize this exactly the problem you are ranting about, or, at least, one side of it.

 

[Ableton]

Oppression requires an oppressor. But honestly, getting laid is as easy as it ever was. Which is to say, frustratingly difficult at times, and bizarrely easy at other times. I know fat and ugly young people who get laid quite easily. The problem is when people have an idealization of the opposite sex that they can't see through. I realize you find it unpleasant to make this personal, but its unavoidable. It is clear that you have an extremely idealized notion of beauty in women, such that only a very narrow range will do. Meanwhile, it is a woman who (apparently) is unavailable to you. Which reflects in your perception of male beauty--a standard you don't achieve in your own opinion (it seems). Which makes you resent the women who say you aren't good enough.

But the truth is, there are lots of beautiful women in the world. Being open to seeing beauty in myriad places is truly liberating. And wonderful for one's self-esteem, because some of them are going to find you attractive. Guaranteed.

Its always about me, me, me. Think imma unwatch the thread and head out for real this time. Thanks for your effort though

 

[managing]

Its always about me, me, me. Think imma unwatch the thread and head out for real this time. Thanks for your effort though

LOL. You are the one making it about you. Every time you talk about how awful and shallow "women" are, all the rest of us see is the color of the lenses in your glasses.

 

[Marie2000]

ableton you seem to want to controle the thread in the direction that you want and get angry and stressed out and threat/ inform us about u leaving, when it doesnt.

Managing: I like your points, I enjoy reading them too- Somehow I could sense that you were older than some of us here x) in my opinion its interesting and informative to hear the perspective from someone that has been around longer and has seen previous trends through out the years also of someone who can offer an outsider view to the current youth programming (it does not target you, ofc your child yes sadly!) Im glad your child has Peat parents btw big respects to you and your fam

 

[Jib]

I'm grateful to be on semen retention. I have extremely powerful sexual urges on a daily basis, but no outlet for them. I don't have a partner anymore, and now that I've quit porn and masturbation/ejaculation, there is no outlet. I am more isolated than I've ever been in my life.

But the frustration is no longer there. I never feel lonely anymore despite these urges. I have absolutely zero affection in my life and haven't had any in it for several years now. But all of a sudden I no longer feel lonely or frustrated. Why? What is going on? Rhetorical question. The only difference is that I'm retaining now. I know what's going on: there's a psychological and spiritual shift happening within me.

That's where it's at. I could not care less what other people are doing. How many thousands of girls are twerking on Instagram this week, how many people are getting laid, how many people are doing this and that, or what my "sexual market value" is. I could not care less. Things like that are so far off my radar that even when they're put right in front of me I don't pay attention to them.

I'm focused on retaining. My attention is on my energy. What's happening within me. It is an extremely ethereal state of mind. I'm not claiming any special knowledge or wisdom from doing this. Simply that it's a mystical experience and I'm enjoying every moment of it while I can.

There's a lot to be said for "been there, done that." I've had a ton of sex and intimacy, masturbated to massive amounts of porn, I've read about Red Pill many years ago before it went mainstream and heard everything they all have to say 20 million times, I've been through the ringer with being sexually invisible and sexually frustrated, been in humiliating situations with women, and practically felt like I was being worshiped as a god by women. Extreme grief over the loss of a close relationship and extreme joy over having love in a close relationship. The whole nine. Both sides of the fence. Been there, done that.

That's what's keeping me on this path: what I haven't experienced is not ejaculating. I've been hyper-engaged in both sexual pleasure and sexual frustration. Why not try sexual "liberation" in the spiritual sense? Being liberated from sexual desires? Transmuting them? That I hadn't tried yet, until recently. And the results have been amazing.

People need to be way, way more positive. All this focus on the wreckage and ruins is not good. You have to remember when you think about that stuff, you're holding it inside your mind. We could say society is corrupt and ruined. That's debatable. What's not debatable is that our mind becomes corrupt and ruined when all we think about is corruption and ruin.

Fun is attractive. People want to have fun. You know the last time I went a long time without ejaculating? When I was a child, before I had the ability to. Slowly I've felt a sense of that coming back. Childlike wonder at the world. Like things are more exciting, like when I was a child. Fascinating, interesting, inspiring, imaginative. That is fun. That is something worth experiencing. They told us the kingdom of heaven belongs to children, and yet we're all running around with jaded and toxic adult mindsets on everything. It's crazy.

I don't think it's a coincidence I've been having some recurring childhood memories come up. Seemingly random things. Like playing outside. Making up games in my head and having so much fun just playing pretend. Even as I hit puberty, the first time I discovered guitar and started learning how to play it, how fascinated I was the first time I learned how to make an adjustment on them....now I can build them from the ground up and have just taken that ability for granted, don't even appreciate it or find any wonderment in it at all. Until now, that is.

I'm not triggered by other people's sexual escapades or whatever anymore. Once in a while there's a twinge of something, that is only a reflection of my own unresolved traumas. But I'm realizing that now. Just crazy to think how much I was numbing out and avoiding by ejaculating every day. Whether to porn or not. I'm still carrying around a lot of trauma but I feel more able to bear that burden alone now without getting crushed by it.

But that's my experience. The greatest thing with this is caring less and less about what other people are doing. Again, like it was in childhood. More concerned with having fun and being myself. That to me is a sign that this is the path. Because it feels good. It feels pure. I'm learning every day.

Just dropping some positivity here. I meant there to be a message in here: I'm bringing up my personal experiences because I think semen retention gets a bad rap because everyone thinks you've gotta be some kind of nutjob to be into it. The moralization turns off more people than it helps from what I've seen so far.

Whether sexual degeneracy in society is "true" or not, this is 100% true: if you focus on sexual degeneracy, you're gonna carry around sexual degeneracy in your mind. It's that simple. People making things way more complicated than they need to be. If you don't want to carry something with you, then don't hold onto it. Other people do what other people will do, you feel me? Not my circus, not my monkeys. People can hold onto all that stuff if they want to but I personally am not gonna entertain those demons in my house. And by my house I mean the temple inside my skull

 

[not_James_Bond]

@Jib Your posts remind me (a bit) of member @Runenight201 , and by that I mean as a compliment, good work