Severe Panic Attacks! Please Help

[haidut]

If you are struck again with an acute episode, 2g L-glycine under the tongue will abort an anxiety attack. That should offer some short term relief.

Thanks for the replies! I have been so fatigued, tired and sick, that I haven't been able to muster the energy to reply. I apologize. Even typing or trying to reply to all this takes what little energy I have away.

I have tried Glycine and didn't notice much. I'll also say though that it's not attacks. It's pretty much all day everyday.

Hey there:

Have you been to a doctor? ( Edit -- I mean have you been to a doctor about your panic attacks...)What you're describing sounds like what I've been reading about for the past couple weeks -- a latent infection. But that's just because I've been reading about it. Still maybe you should get checked out kiddo.

Part of the reason I'm saying this though is because I've had a ton of panic attacks in my life that were immediately solved by sugar. Meaning that it was really hypoglycemia ( makes sense -- adrenalin in response to low sugar) but what I've been reading says that a latent infection will cause hypoglycemia because bacteria use sugar as a fuel source. Actually they use iron also, which is one reason Peat doesn't like iron.

When I was freaking out a couple weeks ago Haidut recommended L-Theanine and it really worked well. If you don't have anything else in the house at the moment you might have benadryl which has a sedative effect and also combat histamine which can be some part of a serotonin excess.

But aside from that, I really wish you would go see a doctor. Even if he checks you out and sees nothing wrong and offers you anxiety meds at least you'll be that much farther down the road to solving this.I really feel for you, sounds like you've been through the wringer.

In the meantime, do you drink a lot? Have you had a head injury? Do you do any hard drugs? Any other health problems? I'm serious about these questions -- the suffering you are describing has to have a cause.

I have and am actively seeing doctors. As stated in my original statement, I had a terrible time at the doctors office the other day. Antihistamines don't do much because I am already so severely fatigued. Whenever I try taking Benadryl or Periactin, even in small doses, I get so delerious that I almost hallucinate. It also makes me a tad depressed also. I have Theanine also but never noticed much.

You need a combination of pregnenolone and desiccated thyroid!

Take 50 mg of pregnenolone, followed by 1/4 or 1/2 tab of this desiccated thyroid:

<a class="vglnk" href="http://nutripakonline.com/Glandulars/THYROID-180-count.html" rel="nofollow"><span>http</span><span>://</span><span>nutripakonline</span><span>.</span><span>com</span><span>/</span><span>Glandulars</span><span>/</span><span>THYROID</span><span>-</span><span>180</span><span>-</span><span>count</span><span>.</span><span>html</span></a>

The combination works like a charm.

I have been trying pregnenolone (haven't noticed much except for my first dose of it a couple years ago) and T3. I am waiting for my T3/T4 combo to arrive. T3 has made me feel nothing, if not worse. In doses everywhere from 1 mcg to 7. It doesn't warm me up, or do much with my pulse.

Try one tspn of bicarbinate of soda in water.
It may be acidosis caused by lactic acid. This has helped me in the past.

I do this quite often. I also taking baking soda baths. Ray recently did recommend though that I get a lactic acid blood test, so it's parallel with what you are saying.

In what form do you normally take Magnesium?

I take Epson salt baths daily, and I was taking Magnesium Glycinate powder.

Hi there,

I have been following your ordeals over the last couple of months and was wondering what happened to you.
Since the panic attacks seem to be the immediate issue and if untreated can literally give you a heart attack, my recommendation would be to go to the doctor and tell him that your panic attacks are severe to the point of making you faint. If he/she is accomodating, I would ask for a 24-hour cortisol test as well as catecholamines test. Your adrenalin and cortisol sound very high to me and if chronically elevated they can ruin your overall health and not just mentally. In your situation they could also be low, indicating the proverbial "adrenal fatigue". The reason I am mentioning "adrenal fatigue" is that even if the condition does not actually exist in the form its name implies, one of the defining symptoms is inability to handle stressful situations - i.e. anxiety and panic even at the thought of something exciting or aggravating.
I would agree with the general opinion on the forum that something is interfering with your metabolism, and it could very well be a latent infection or deficiency of some sorts. The extreme panic attacks is just your brain freaking out that it has no fuel and triggering a stress reaction to get some fuel out of cortisol and adrenalin converting your tissues into fuel. As far as the infection, if you have not suggested it to your doctor I would do that and ask for some tests for that. Beyond the CBC and iron tests, doctors have some additional basic biomarkers that they can run for you and find out if you are fighting a bug. I am blanking on those tests right now but the doctor would know.
Furthermore, have you measured your blood oxygenation levels? Sometimes doctors do it at their office but it is very few of them that actually practice it. If your oxygenation levels are <97% it can trigger a panic attack. Also, if the levels are 97% it would suggest to the doctor where to look for issues even though they typically do not get concerned until the numbers get below 95%.
Finally, some doctors are willing to consider IV magnesium as a quick solution for panic attacks and should be able to do it in their office. If the magnesium works even a little (and you can try it orally as well) then the issue is most likely thyroid as you are not retaining magnesium. If the magnesium does not help at all then infection or other some other process is likely interfering with metabolism. Btw, blood tests for magnesium are worthless - it means nothing for tissue saturation. So, if the doctor has done magnesium blood test I would not pay much attention to it. Oh, I almost forgot - if you get startled by loud noise you may want to check your potassium levels. Peat has said that intolerance of loud noises is a sign of severe potassium deficiency.
I guess this is it for now. If you do end up getting any of these things checked please let us know.
Good luck with everything!

Heart attack? Great, just what I needed to hear. I honestly feel like I will have one. Maybe doctors will then take me more seriously. My doctor will hear NO part of my trying to recommend tests for myself, exp an infection. I am trying to get into a doctor that thinks outside the box, but it's a few months out. I go to a cardiologist on Wednesday, so I will ask them about a possible heart attack coming. I did recently have an EKG and they said that was OK. I do check my Oxygen levels often, and they are typically between 92-97, normally around 94-95. I also did move high in altitude in October since it seems to benefit many. I am living at roughly 7,000 feet.

Who said I was trying the same thing over and over or are you just assuming this? Before Peat, I did GAPS, SCD, Paleo, elimination diet, seen hundreds of docs of every specialty. Please don't assume if you don't know my full situation.

ILS, have you considered having your blood or urine catecholamines measured?

By the way, I think, based on blood tests, that magnesium corrected my mild hypokalemia (from 3.5 to 4.6), so that may also play a role.

Beings I don't know what this, I can't say that I have. I would be open to doing it though if it would show something.

provide ketones without having to do a ketogenic diet.
Re: Severe panic attacks!!! Please help
Post by mujuro » Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:02 am

I do suspect an infection as well, but no idea how to check, or what to check for. I am having my Vit D checked this week.

Maybe messtafarian is right and it is an infection. glycine could also calm you.

What do you eat each day (what, how much and at what time)? You are 170lbs but do you know your body fat %? How is you digestion (gas, diarrhoea, constipation)? You may have written about these before but you have a lot of posts so it's a bit hard the search these info.

When you say protein/sugar/salt doesn't help, what do you mean exactly? What amount doesn't help?

I am your age, heavier than you and with low CO2. I didn't have anxiety but I can relate on other things (at a smaller scale). Eating sugar or more protein didn't have big effects. If you're not healthy (mainly liver and gut health) you don't burn sugar as energy and protein is made into ammonia.

Caffeine had a really big effect. Recently adding 1g of salt with each cup of liquid (1 tablespoon in a day) has had a tremendous effect (I am not mixing the salt with the liquid because the taste would be terrible). I used to have stuffed nose and it's now clear all day (taping my mouth at night and sleeping in a seated position has clearly helped me, but caffeine and salt also improved it probably raised my CO2). Salt also improved my gut and my bowel movement is getting more regular. I used to eat a lot of salt but I think getting small doses will get better results.

I think what pboy told you in another thread was good advice too. You could try lots of small meals of potatoes/cheese (max 50g of carbs per meal) to cut the liquids and be sure to take 1 tablespoon of salt a day divided in small doses. thiamine could help burn glucose, as other b vitamins too.

I think my BMI is like 27%. I am severely constipated, never and D. No food combos help. I've played around a great deal with this and nothing. I do the same as you do with salt, but only about 1/2 tsp a day. I have never liked salt, so I now take it as a supplement. Ironically, I have also been trying the "taping my mouth" at night also. Usually within 3-4 hours, I rip it off in my sleep. My nose is chronically dry and clogged. Potatoes have long been my favorite food, but mess me up quite bad. I have numerous bad reactions to them.

Were you ever able to follow Peat's high protein advice? I found that homemade cottage cheese makes it easy to consume a lot of protein. I consume homemade cottage cheese with milk or fruit jam (or fruit in some form) to get a better balance of minerals than cottage cheese alone, because cottage cheese is very low in calcium and potassium, but a good source of protein. It's important to drain the acid very well afte making cottage cheese.

Also, I suggest a good vitamin E supplement for general health, such as 4spectrum.

For 3-4 weeks, I was getting about 150 g a day, primarily from Protein. I never have used cottage cheese as my main source. Perhaps I could try.

Blood oxygenation levels of 92%-95% are definitely NOT normal and anything below 95% is a cause of concern. Actually, anything below 97% makes you likely to have a panic attack. Is your doctor aware you have had readings as low as 92%!?!?!? This is hypoxia plain and simple and if the doctor does not want to hear you out then the only thing I can suggest is to run to the ER when you get a reading below 95%. I am pretty sure they will take you seriously with those readings. Has anybody done tests on your lungs?

 

[Gl;itch.e]

I don't really like salt either and can't handle putting much salt in my food that's why like you I probably never took more than 1/2 tsp of salt a day. I thought it was because I didn't need the salt but I was so wrong. The more salt I eat the better I feel. I've been peating for a more than a year and all these liquids may have harm my health a bit too much.

Salt is a natural antihistamine so if you can't take other antihistamines, try more salt. Really my nose has never been clearer and it's mostly thanks to the salt. My premature ejaculations have vanished (I started a thread and someone thought it was due to high histamine, he might have been right). My bowel movement is finally regular, no more gas when I eat starch also.

Taking this amount of salt is really hard but the benefits are so huge you have to try.

You should read articles of RP when he mentions salt, it is a great read to be convinced that salt is one of the most important thing RP is suggesting. Of course once your body is repleted, you don't have to stuff yourself with salt.

It's not a silver bullet, but it did so much good to me and other people on this forum whom are not posting anymore that it is worth considering.

Also, doctors suck I have never been able to find a decent doctor. Hope you will find a good one soon.

Could you link this thread?

Would have been nice if he posted an update in that thread! This is good news though either way!

 

[iLoveSugar]

@haidut: The O2 readings are per the finger meter thing they put on my finger, not blood.

@tara: I will test the UPH and see what mine says.

 

[iLoveSugar]

I did do some minor lung tests. I will say that when doctors ask me to breath, so I can listen, I almost always faint. They never do anything about it. I go to a cardiologist tomorrow.

 

[haidut]

@haidut: The O2 readings are per the finger meter thing they put on my finger, not blood.

@tara: I will test the UPH and see what mine says.

Yes, I meant finger readings as well. I have a device like that at home and the only time I get readings below 98% is when I get endotoxin rush from starch or get the "flu", which Peat says is also endotoxin symptoms.
The fact that you did some lung tests and are seeing a cardiologist tells me your doctors are aware of the oxygenation being an issue and are looking into it. Hopefully you will have some clarity soon.
Since excess NO is one thing that can reduce blood oxygenation levels, if you are willing to try supplementation maybe you can take some magnesium and zinc. I posted some studies on both of those helping with NO. The dosage is 300mg-400mg magnesium + 30mg of zinc. Take this 3 times a day for a total of about 1g of magnesium and 100mg of zinc. Measure your blood oxygenation and if you see an improvement of 2% or more within an hour of ingesting the supplements then I'd say NO is definitely high in your cells.
Keep us posted, and hang in there. I think your doctors will figure this out but right now they don't want to admit they are clueless.

 

[iLoveSugar]

I went to the cardiologist today, had a reading of 96, and she said fantastic.

I have taken, and do periodically take Magnesium Glycinate (is this correct). I also have Zinc, which I have yet to open the bag.

I wonder if Methylene Blue is good since it's main goal is to fight NO?

 

[messtafarian]

Hi Sweetie:

I think it's a good idea. When I wrote to Peat, desperate, like you, to figure out what the f was wrong with me ( having just had parotitis, neurological signs such as ataxia and double vision, most likely meningitis and a positive autoimmune panel) I was operating under the assumption that I had an "autoimmune disorder." I asked him for an easier, safer solution than the quinine drug plaquenil and he basically prescribed both tetracycline and methylene blue.

Now I think I have spirochetes, but that's another story -- what he was telling me to do was to kill my infection ( his assumption was that I had one, either viral or bacterial) and *additionally protect against nitric oxide damage by adding methylene blue*; which is what he thinks plaquenil does for malaria and other 'autoimmune disorders." He does not believe in autoimmune disorders, he believes in cellular respiration and endotoxic stress.

Killing the infection and protecting against nitric oxide damage with plaquenil is what Lyme doctors are now doing. In the second month of treatment, if the patient has not entirely improved, what the docs will do is *add plaquenil* to another round.

When I posted about Methylene Blue originally it was with immense gratitude that there was something more I could do besides have conversations with lots of millionaire medical specialists. But it turned out MB was too hard to figure out and I was worried about my blood pressure.

However, there is *also* lapacho, or pau d'arco ,and nigella sativa -- both of these protect against nitric oxide damage. I saw haidut post about other micronutrients that do also. I'm just about ready too to try MB again, this time at a much lower dose -- half a milligram should work.

 

[haidut]

I went to the cardiologist today, had a reading of 96, and she said fantastic.

I have taken, and do periodically take Magnesium Glycinate (is this correct). I also have Zinc, which I have yet to open the bag.

I wonder if Methylene Blue is good since it's main goal is to fight NO?

Wow, I am not sure what to say. Blood oxygenation of 96% is anything but fantastic, ideally you want to be 98%-99%.
Anyways, the magnesium + zinc combo will lower NO as much (and probably more) than methylene blue but without the side effects of increased blood pressure. In cases like yours with panic attacks you don't want high blood pressure. If anything, taking 1g magnesium daily should lower your blood pressure.
You can try methylene blue as well on top of the magnesium and zinc. If you do end up trying all of these please share your experience of what worked best.
What brand of magnesium glycinate do you use?

 

[tara]

Hi ILS,
What did your cardiologist tell you? Did she do any other tests and tell you the results? What did she say she thought might be going on? What possibilities did she mention? What did she propose you or she do next? What did she say you should do next time you get an O2 reading of 94%? Or faint?

I may be off base, but just thinking about your habit of starting a lot of new threads, and the consequence that you often get advice that doesn't take into account all the other information you have posted on all your other threads.
Have the doctors you've been seeing got all the relevant information about the struggles you've been having? And the relevant test results? Did today's cardiologist know about your previous frequent low O2 readings, fainting, breathlessness, weakness, your severe difficulties with digestion, that you have been often bedridden, etc? Or was she just faced with a patient referred to her with little information, who tested at O2 96%, which didn't seem so bad to her, because she wasn't aware of the previous 92% and fainting etc?

It's not that I expect doctors to be always onto it and have a full understanding of everything - I know they often don't. But they've got a better chance of understanding at least some of what's going on if they have the relevant data. And they don't always tell you what they are thinking, either - sometimes asking helps, and sometimes it doesn't, but I think asking questions usually gets you more information about their views than not.

I think you have said before that none of the multitude of drs you've seen have been any help to you. I don't disbelieve you. But I wonder what they have said - have they said what they think is wrong? Have they suggested courses of action? Or do they just keep forever referring you off to other doctors?

I also know from experience that when one is sick, it can be even harder to organise thoughts well enough to think about and clearly communicate what you want them to know, and take in what they say.
Have you got any one close to you who could be helpful by coming with you to appointments, taking notes about what the drs say, and making sure that the information you want them to have is presented?

I'm sorry it continues to be so hard. It doesn't seem fair that people who are really unwell have to be in charge of the complex and difficult project of their own recovery in the face of an often unhelpful system. Not easy when you barely have the energy to get up at all.

Take care.

 

[iLoveSugar]

Hi Sweetie:

I think it's a good idea. When I wrote to Peat, desperate, like you, to figure out what the f was wrong with me ( having just had parotitis, neurological signs such as ataxia and double vision, most likely meningitis and a positive autoimmune panel) I was operating under the assumption that I had an "autoimmune disorder." I asked him for an easier, safer solution than the quinine drug plaquenil and he basically prescribed both tetracycline and methylene blue.

Now I think I have spirochetes, but that's another story -- what he was telling me to do was to kill my infection ( his assumption was that I had one, either viral or bacterial) and *additionally protect against nitric oxide damage by adding methylene blue*; which is what he thinks plaquenil does for malaria and other 'autoimmune disorders." He does not believe in autoimmune disorders, he believes in cellular respiration and endotoxic stress.

Killing the infection and protecting against nitric oxide damage with plaquenil is what Lyme doctors are now doing. In the second month of treatment, if the patient has not entirely improved, what the docs will do is *add plaquenil* to another round.

When I posted about Methylene Blue originally it was with immense gratitude that there was something more I could do besides have conversations with lots of millionaire medical specialists. But it turned out MB was too hard to figure out and I was worried about my blood pressure.

However, there is *also* lapacho, or pau d'arco ,and nigella sativa -- both of these protect against nitric oxide damage. I saw haidut post about other micronutrients that do also. I'm just about ready too to try MB again, this time at a much lower dose -- half a milligram should work.

The first day that I tried methylene blue, it seem to have a very good effect. Immediately after I take any supplements or drug, I hyperventilate, just because my mind plays tricks with me. I never give things an opportunity to work. After I got done with my hyperventilation episode, the MB seemed to give me a very good effect, clearheaded, and I didn't have any worries. I took 1 mg. I tried a few more doses, and did not seem to have that effect. Maybe I could try again too.

 

[iLoveSugar]

I went to the cardiologist today, had a reading of 96, and she said fantastic.

I have taken, and do periodically take Magnesium Glycinate (is this correct). I also have Zinc, which I have yet to open the bag.

I wonder if Methylene Blue is good since it's main goal is to fight NO?

Wow, I am not sure what to say. Blood oxygenation of 96% is anything but fantastic, ideally you want to be 98%-99%.
Anyways, the magnesium + zinc combo will lower NO as much (and probably more) than methylene blue but without the side effects of increased blood pressure. In cases like yours with panic attacks you don't want high blood pressure. If anything, taking 1g magnesium daily should lower your blood pressure.
You can try methylene blue as well on top of the magnesium and zinc. If you do end up trying all of these please share your experience of what worked best.
What brand of magnesium glycinate do you use?

Yes. I actually have my own finger meter too, and I just measured it at 92%. It goes between 92 and 94 here at home. I just took roughly 70-100 MG of zinc gluconate, and also some magnesium glycinatr, both from pure bulk. I will see what they do.

 

[iLoveSugar]

Hi ILS,
What did your cardiologist tell you? Did she do any other tests and tell you the results? What did she say she thought might be going on? What possibilities did she mention? What did she propose you or she do next? What did she say you should do next time you get an O2 reading of 94%? Or faint?

I may be off base, but just thinking about your habit of starting a lot of new threads, and the consequence that you often get advice that doesn't take into account all the other information you have posted on all your other threads.
Have the doctors you've been seeing got all the relevant information about the struggles you've been having? And the relevant test results? Did today's cardiologist know about your previous frequent low O2 readings, fainting, breathlessness, weakness, your severe difficulties with digestion, that you have been often bedridden, etc? Or was she just faced with a patient referred to her with little information, who tested at O2 96%, which didn't seem so bad to her, because she wasn't aware of the previous 92% and fainting etc?

It's not that I expect doctors to be always onto it and have a full understanding of everything - I know they often don't. But they've got a better chance of understanding at least some of what's going on if they have the relevant data. And they don't always tell you what they are thinking, either - sometimes asking helps, and sometimes it doesn't, but I think asking questions usually gets you more information about their views than not.

I think you have said before that none of the multitude of drs you've seen have been any help to you. I don't disbelieve you. But I wonder what they have said - have they said what they think is wrong? Have they suggested courses of action? Or do they just keep forever referring you off to other doctors?

I also know from experience that when one is sick, it can be even harder to organise thoughts well enough to think about and clearly communicate what you want them to know, and take in what they say.
Have you got any one close to you who could be helpful by coming with you to appointments, taking notes about what the drs say, and making sure that the information you want them to have is presented?

I'm sorry it continues to be so hard. It doesn't seem fair that people who are really unwell have to be in charge of the complex and difficult project of their own recovery in the face of an often unhelpful system. Not easy when you barely have the energy to get up at all.

Take care.

Hello Tara, and thank you very much for the reply. In a nutshell, the over 500 doctors that I have seen, all points to depression, and anxiety, and the need to take something such as Lexapro, Paxil, or the equivalent. I am honestly about to just cave-in, and take them. If they give me some relief, so be it. My quality of life sucks right now. They do recognize that I have a real and legit issues, but fail to think it is anything serious, that would require more than a heavy dose of an antidepressant. After going over all the symptoms today, having an EKG done, the cardiologist today dismissed me, and said he does not think my issues are cardiology related. He suggests I go back to my family doctor, and try to get something to help with what he called brain disturbances.

 

[johns74]

Yes. I actually have my own finger meter too, and I just measured it at 92%. It goes between 92 and 94 here at home. I just took roughly 70-100 MG of zinc gluconate, and also some magnesium glycinatr, both from pure bulk. I will see what they do.

VoS mentioned in one of his posts that having the oxygenation below very high can be better because it means you have more adequate carbon dioxide. If I recall correctly, that was confirmed by Peat.

 

[iLoveSugar]

I also want to emphasize, that I do live high in altitude, and that could make my reading lower than the average person. I am at about 7000 feet.

 

[johns74]

Have you found something to help with constipation? Taking more MCT oil than you can handle can act as a laxative. I decided to use one tablespoon per day when I want things to move faster, and it works. But you might want to start very slowly like a teaspoon a day.

I recall reading a study where authors were either conjecturing or confirming that MCT oil accelerates intestinal transit (but excess can give you very explosive diarrhea).

 

[iLoveSugar]

Today was actually the first day and five days, that I have went. I can take loads of coconut oil, and it does not help. At first it did, but like everything else, the laxative effect subsided.

 

[johns74]

I suggest trying MCT oil. The effect of accelerating transit did not subside at all with me. I used coconut oil as well and some of the effects are very different.

 

[mujuro]

If the drugs do help, at least they will allow you to gain some bearings on your issues, if only temporarily.

http://www.researchgate.net/publica...e_pathophysiology_of_stress-related_disorders

 

[iLoveSugar]

@johns where do I find it?

@mujuro I agree 100%

 

[Blossom]

I also want to emphasize, that I do live high in altitude, and that could make my reading lower than the average person. I am at about 7000 feet.

I don't think the spo2 reading is anything to be alarmed about. The home finger pulse oximeters often read a couple points lower than the equipment used in a hospital setting. I think it's a good idea to keep the pulse oximeter on for at least 30 seconds to a full minute while resting your hand on a flat surface to get the most accurate reading. Where you live there is less oxygen in the air that could result in a slightly lower reading too. If you are getting a reading of 92% on your home oximeter I would first make sure you are not hyperventilating when you are taking the measurement. It's not uncommon for medical people to panic when a low reading is displayed while checking someone's oxygen saturation. Most times just keeping the probe on a bit longer will give the device time to pick up a steady signal resulting in a more accurate reading. I experienced this panic myself when the initial reading came up as 88% once but I kept it on my finger it slowly came up to 98%. I'm just saying that the 92% reading could possibly be related to a combination of less sensitive home equipment and what's happening while you are taking the measurement. Spo2 is imperfect because it doesn't tell us how well we are utilizing the oxygen in our bodies. It really does just give a rough idea of where we are at and not much more. Just like every other vital sign most people's numbers will fluctuate to a certain extent through out the day. If you were getting a reading of 92% consistently that would be more of a concern IMO.