Severe Panic Attacks! Please Help

[nikotrope]

For your sleep, try sleeping in a seated position if you never tried. Put lots of pillows instead of one to have your upper body in a higher position. I couldn't really handle mouth taping either, sleeping seated helped enough that after two months I was able to sleep normally again.

 

[messtafarian]

Glad to see you posting ILS. I'm concerned about you. Really thinking infection now but it seems you're going to have to wait in the long line to get there.

Don't give up hope. You are a young man, this absolutely has to get sorted, and it will. It's insane that the sickest people are the ones who have to work the hardest to get adequate help --never understood that. But stick with it. We're here for you.

 

[iLoveSugar]

Hi ILS, I know I've been a proponent of mouth taping to retain CO2, but if your oxygen levels are showing low as yours seem to be, then it may not make sense.
Hope you can get more useful tests/help from your next doctor.
Good luck.

Really Tara? You think it's likely detrimental? I type this while I am laying in bed with tape on.

 

[iLoveSugar]

I don't really like salt either and can't handle putting much salt in my food that's why like you I probably never took more than 1/2 tsp of salt a day. I thought it was because I didn't need the salt but I was so wrong. The more salt I eat the better I feel. I've been peating for a more than a year and all these liquids may have harm my health a bit too much.

Salt is a natural antihistamine so if you can't take other antihistamines, try more salt. Really my nose has never been clearer and it's mostly thanks to the salt. My premature ejaculations have vanished (I started a thread and someone thought it was due to high histamine, he might have been right). My bowel movement is finally regular, no more gas when I eat starch also.

Taking this amount of salt is really hard but the benefits are so huge you have to try.

You should read articles of RP when he mentions salt, it is a great read to be convinced that salt is one of the most important thing RP is suggesting. Of course once your body is repleted, you don't have to stuff yourself with salt.

It's not a silver bullet, but it did so much good to me and other people on this forum whom are not posting anymore that it is worth considering.

Also, doctors suck I have never been able to find a decent doctor. Hope you will find a good one soon.

Thanks so much for this, and also thanks for acknowledging that docs do suck. I will continue to try, and see them, but ultimately the last 884 appointments have been a waste. If I am getting 1/2 tsp a day, what do you think I should venture to?

 

[iLoveSugar]

Glad to see you posting ILS. I'm concerned about you. Really thinking infection now but it seems you're going to have to wait in the long line to get there.

Don't give up hope. You are a young man, this absolutely has to get sorted, and it will. It's insane that the sickest people are the ones who have to work the hardest to get adequate help --never understood that. But stick with it. We're here for you.

Thanks Mess, it truly does make me feel good that people care. Sometimes I feel so alone, but the truth of that matter is--this world is sick. I would pay for self testing on my own if something really was reliable in regards to infection.

 

[nikotrope]

Mouth taping it's not detrimental. You will always rip it off in your sleep if you have too much discomfort. But if you rip it off always after 3-4 hours and not progressing, maybe it doesn't have any effect though.

 

[iLoveSugar]

I do hyperventilate all day long. Any bad thought and I hyperventilate. It's very very often!!

 

[tara]

Hi ILS, I know I've been a proponent of mouth taping to retain CO2, but if your oxygen levels are showing low as yours seem to be, then it may not make sense.
Hope you can get more useful tests/help from your next doctor.
Good luck.

Really Tara? You think it's likely detrimental? I type this while I am laying in bed with tape on.

I don't know one way or another.

My understanding is that the most common hyperventilation problem is for people to have normal/high O2 and low CO2. I'm not really familiar with the ranges, but I think O2 saturation is often 97-99%. High O2 is no use if you have insufficient CO2 to get it to the cells that need it.

But if your O2 is low (which I think the range you describe is?) then I wonder whether that, rather than low CO2, could be resulting in less O2 delivery. Do you now if you have anything impairing the ability of your lungs to take in oxygen and lose CO2? Can't remember if you've posted any CO2 test levels. Are you dealing with something like chronic asthma or cardiovascular issues along with all the other issues? Hyperventilation can result in a feeling of breathlessness, but so can actual oxygen deprivation.

I may have suggested tape to you before, without this information about your O2 levels, because hyperventilation (high blood O2 but low CO2 and therefore low oxygen supply to tissues) is often associated with panic attacks.

In the absence of expert advice, I'd be inclined to go with what feels better to you wrt taping your mouth, if you can tell. My guess is it won't hurt you, but it's good that you can rip it off quickly in the night if it feels bad. For me, it sometimes feels very briefly bad when I first put it on, but always feels better in the long run. (Actually, I don't seem to need it to interrupt night-time hyperventilation [edit to add:] any longer.)

But I would think the low O2 levels may be a significant thing to draw to the attention of whatever drs you are consulting.

 

[nikotrope]

Thanks so much for this, and also thanks for acknowledging that docs do suck. I will continue to try, and see them, but ultimately the last 884 appointments have been a waste. If I am getting 1/2 tsp a day, what do you think I should venture to?

Last spring I have had an big allergic reaction to something in the air for a few weeks (first time I had any allergy) and I saw 2 doctors 3 times and everything they gave me had no effect... what a waste. I went to multiple doctors saying that I had fatigue and such but they gave me vitamin C, no blood test. Note that it was in France. I have talked to a (French) doctor and he told me (French) doctors don't like to do blood tests (and when they do they don't test your hormone, vitamin or mineral levels). Stupid.

You won't notice big effects until you go to 1 tablespoon a day or more. The member "peatarian" on this forum said she was taking 3 tablespoons of salt each day (and she consulted RP when he was doing consultations so it seems to me it's kind of legit). Danny Roddy was telling that several teaspoons is a good dose (so more or less a tablespoon). And 1 tablespoon seems to be what Asian people get on average with their food and they are lean (one thing I am confirming now that I live in Japan is that they don't retain water, my wife is overweight but doesn't have water retention and eats lots of salty foods. she has a high pulse with low temp so high stress hormones and low metabolism but still has good CO2 levels and I think it's in part because of the salt). So a tablespoon = 18g of salt so since I drink lots of liquid I am parachuting 1g of salt per cup of liquid I drink. You could parachute more but it can also be irritating. It's not easy I admit, but it's effective.

RP says that salt will reduce histamine, reduce blood vessel leakage and increase CO2 levels. It's probably very important in the state you are right now

 

[messtafarian]

Well the docs need something to culture. If they don't know where the thing is on you, they tend to shy away. One thing you could do though is look specifically for a doctor of *infectious disease*, tell him you've been marching around and you suspect you have something. You could also ask any doc for an "empiric" treatment with antibiotics -- meaning if you get better, you had something.

I understand how you feel. Being truly ill is *very* lonely. Having tons of people around can almost be worse than having none because they really can't be in your place and you would not wish it on them.

Still, it still matters very much that you get better. And you will.

 

[iLoveSugar]

Hi ILS, I know I've been a proponent of mouth taping to retain CO2, but if your oxygen levels are showing low as yours seem to be, then it may not make sense.
Hope you can get more useful tests/help from your next doctor.
Good luck.

Really Tara? You think it's likely detrimental? I type this while I am laying in bed with tape on.

I don't know one way or another.

My understanding is that the most common hyperventilation problem is for people to have normal/high O2 and low CO2. I'm not really familiar with the ranges, but I think O2 saturation is often 97-99%. High O2 is no use if you have insufficient CO2 to get it to the cells that need it.

But if your O2 is low (which I think the range you describe is?) then I wonder whether that, rather than low CO2, could be resulting in less O2 delivery. Do you now if you have anything impairing the ability of your lungs to take in oxygen and lose CO2? Can't remember if you've posted any CO2 test levels. Are you dealing with something like chronic asthma or cardiovaslur issues along with all the other issues? Hyperventilation can result in a feeling of breathlessness, but so can actual oxygen deprivation.

I may have suggested tape to you before, without this information about your O2 levels, because hyperventilation (high blood O2 but low CO2 and therefore low oxygen supply to tissues) is often associated with panic attacks.

In the absence of expert advice, I'd be inclined to go with what feels better to you wrt taping your mouth, if you can tell. My guess is it won't hurt you, but it's good that you can rip it off quickly in the night if it feels bad. For me, it sometimes feels very briefly bad when I first put it on, but always feels better in the long run. (Actually, I don't seem to need it to interrupt night-time hyperventilation.)

But I would think the low O2 levels may be a significant thing to draw to the attention of whatever drs you are consulting.

I've been to the doc a few times, and when they test, it's usually 94-95. I also do live at 7,000 feet, so maybe that has something to play? I've had a few co2 tests done as well, and it's usually like 27 on a scale of 20-30.

 

[iLoveSugar]

Thanks so much for this, and also thanks for acknowledging that docs do suck. I will continue to try, and see them, but ultimately the last 884 appointments have been a waste. If I am getting 1/2 tsp a day, what do you think I should venture to?

Last spring I have had an big allergic reaction to something in the air for a few weeks (first time I had any allergy) and I saw 2 doctors 3 times and everything they gave me had no effect... what a waste. I went to multiple doctors saying that I had fatigue and such but they gave me vitamin C, no blood test. Note that it was in France. I have talked to a (French) doctor and he told me (French) doctors don't like to do blood tests (and when they do they don't test your hormone, vitamin or mineral levels). Stupid.

You won't notice big effects until you go to 1 tablespoon a day or more. The member "peatarian" on this forum said she was taking 3 tablespoons of salt each day (and she consulted RP when he was doing consultations so it seems to me it's kind of legit). Danny Roddy was telling that several teaspoons is a good dose (so more or less a tablespoon). And 1 tablespoon seems to be what Asian people get on average with their food and they are lean (one thing I am confirming now that I live in Japan is that they don't retain water, my wife is overweight but doesn't have water retention and eats lots of salty foods. she has a high pulse with low temp so high stress hormones and low metabolism but still has good CO2 levels and I think it's in part because of the salt). So a tablespoon = 18g of salt so since I drink lots of liquid I am parachuting 1g of salt per cup of liquid I drink. You could parachute more but it can also be irritating. It's not easy I admit, but it's effective.

RP says that salt will reduce histamine, reduce blood vessel leakage and increase CO2 levels. It's probably very important in the state you are right now

I've ventured in the past of upward 1-2 tsp but never did it for more than a few days. I'll start again tomorrow. I'll aim for 1 tbsp.

 

[iLoveSugar]

Well the docs need something to culture. If they don't know where the thing is on you, they tend to shy away. One thing you could do though is look specifically for a doctor of *infectious disease*, tell him you've been marching around and you suspect you have something. You could also ask any doc for an "empiric" treatment with antibiotics -- meaning if you get better, you had something.

I understand how you feel. Being truly ill is *very* lonely. Having tons of people around can almost be worse than having none because they really can't be in your place and you would not wish it on them.

Still, it still matters very much that you get better. And you will.

I have tested positive for Lyme, but took a month course of abx and didn't feel nothing except dizzier.

 

[koganmj]

I don't really like salt either and can't handle putting much salt in my food that's why like you I probably never took more than 1/2 tsp of salt a day. I thought it was because I didn't need the salt but I was so wrong. The more salt I eat the better I feel. I've been peating for a more than a year and all these liquids may have harm my health a bit too much.

Salt is a natural antihistamine so if you can't take other antihistamines, try more salt. Really my nose has never been clearer and it's mostly thanks to the salt. My premature ejaculations have vanished (I started a thread and someone thought it was due to high histamine, he might have been right). My bowel movement is finally regular, no more gas when I eat starch also.

Taking this amount of salt is really hard but the benefits are so huge you have to try.

You should read articles of RP when he mentions salt, it is a great read to be convinced that salt is one of the most important thing RP is suggesting. Of course once your body is repleted, you don't have to stuff yourself with salt.

It's not a silver bullet, but it did so much good to me and other people on this forum whom are not posting anymore that it is worth considering.

Also, doctors suck I have never been able to find a decent doctor. Hope you will find a good one soon.

Could you link this thread?

 

[marikay]

The only thing that has helped me with anxiety/panic attacks is sugar, sugar, and more sugar. It also helps with anger issues, I wonder if they are related. Anyway, I suggest sugar. Good Luck.

 

[tara]

I've been to the doc a few times, and when they test, it's usually 94-95. I also do live at 7,000 feet, so maybe that has something to play? I've had a few co2 tests done as well, and it's usually like 27 on a scale of 20-30.

What have the doctors had to say about your O2 levels?
The CO2 level seems reasonably good, as far as I understand.
Have you ever got around to checking UpH?

 

[nikotrope]

Could you link this thread?

Here's the thread (that I, in fact, didn't start): viewtopic.php?f=75&t=5736&p=68231&hilit=premature#p68231

 

[iLoveSugar]

I've been to the doc a few times, and when they test, it's usually 94-95. I also do live at 7,000 feet, so maybe that has something to play? I've had a few co2 tests done as well, and it's usually like 27 on a scale of 20-30.

What have the doctors had to say about your O2 levels?
The CO2 level seems reasonably good, as far as I understand.
Have you ever got around to checking UpH?

It never provoked them to look further or even mention it.

I'm sorry, what is UpH?

 

[messtafarian]

ILS, if you have Lyme you might not be done with it. I am not sure if I agree with Peat that you can be done with Lyme after a month of antibiotics. It's possible the bacteria is dead but there is a theory that it leaves behind lots of exotoxin that a damaged metabolic system can't clear. Toxins can hang out in the digestive system for a long time and just keep getting recycled; or at least this is what I've read on the Lyme boards. I'm no expert, Lyme is a new entity for me -- but one thing I know is, if you *tested positive* you should make sure those little bastards are out of you.

 

[tara]

UpH = urine pH. You can test yourself easily with either paper test strips or a pH meter. You test a few times through the day a few times (don't bother with first thing in the morning), or alternatively collect it all for a 24 hr period. Peat has mentioned that ideal 24hr UpH is probably 6.3-6.7.

It is used more centrally in RBTI. As I understand it, it gives an idea of the intercellular tissue pH (not blood, which is tightly constrained in the range 7.35-7.45), and the availability of acid and alkaline buffers. Tissue pH affects how well you can use nutrients for repair and maintenance etc. If its consistently too acid or too alkaline, this can cause problems. One can affect the pH by food and supplement choices. RBTI as practiced by Reams does not seem to be completely compatible with Peat's ideas, but I haven't yet seen any contradiction between them wrt UpH. There's a non-Peat thread about RBTI here viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4433. I figure since you've been trying so many Peaty ideas and are still struggling so much with recovery, maybe having another parameter to monitor and modify may give you some useful clues. The relevant test is completely non-invasive, and once you have the equip, you can do it as often as you like at home.