Methylene Blue

[narouz]

Thinking of dosing MB multiple times across the day, but I don't want to carry around a potentially messy/stain producing dropper bottle. What would be a good substance to put it with into capsules?

I just made some capsules with sugar.

 

[Gl;itch.e]

Thinking of dosing MB multiple times across the day, but I don't want to carry around a potentially messy/stain producing dropper bottle. What would be a good substance to put it with into capsules?

I just made some capsules with sugar.

*slaps forehead* why didn't I think of that! Cheers Narouz!

 

[narouz]

I hope it works okay. :)
I haven't taken one yet.
But I've been up to 1.0mg x 3 per day liquid.
I tried to get the capsules at about 1 or 2mg per.
Pretty rough estimating...I don't have a scale.

With the sugar capsules...
I would watch for any stomach weirdness.
If a gelatin capsule holds up long enough to transport pretty far down the gut...
it's like an undissolved sugar bomb down in one's bowels.
There's a chance that it might discombobulate the biome, I guess...

 

[Gl;itch.e]

I hope it works okay. :)
I haven't taken one yet.
But I've been up to 1.0mg x 3 per day liquid.
I tried to get the capsules at about 1 or 2mg per.
Pretty rough estimating...I don't have a scale.

With the sugar capsules...
I would watch for any stomach weirdness.
If a gelatin capsule holds up long enough to transport pretty far down the gut...
it's like an undissolved sugar bomb down in one's bowels.
There's a chance that it might discombobulate the biome, I guess...

Hmm. Maybe salt would be a better base then perhaps? I really don't want to suffer any discombobulations!

 

[tara]

Hmm. Maybe salt would be a better base then perhaps? I really don't want to suffer any discombobulations!

I'd go for encapsulating with sugar over salt if it were me - I'd expect salt to risk bigger discombobulations. :)
Granulated sugar will dissolve pretty quick, and it's not as though you are taking big spoonfuls in one capsule. I think sugar pills and sugar as a tabletting aid were a thing because sugar was so benign.
Not that I'm supplementing MB at this stage.

 

[narouz]

Anybody else using the powdered form?
Crazy form to deal with.
Guess it is attracted to moisture,
like on the fingers.
Almost impossible to handle cleanly.
If any has a chance to get even slightly airborne,
amazing how you will taste it strongly and instantly.

Vinyl disposable gloves work wonders.

 

[narouz]

Just thought I'd add a note about my MB usage.

I am a horrible scientist in my personal supplement implementation.
An abomination in the face of Peat!
Because I get frustrated and make a whole lot of changes at one time,
so...impossible to know what's working or not.

But anyhow, a couple of months ago I made these changes:
-MB, increasing from micro amounts to now about 2mg/twice a day
-discontinued vit D3
-calcium 500mg x 4/day
-lysine 500mg x 4/day
-pau d'arco
-reduced red meat
-eat a couple slices sprouted grain bread w/cheese
-natural sauerkraut & pickles in small amounts
-b. coagulans
-s. boulardii
-a little kefir
-no nightshades
-donating blood every couple months

Summary of my health issues over last year or so:
-basic problem is I get palpitations/racing when trying to raise thyroid supp (NDT)
to a point where my temps/pulses are good, temp seldom cracked 98, pulse about 78
have had to endure that low metabolism...effectively hypothyroid I guess
-but did check TSH during this period and it was nearly zero so...go figure
-severe lower backache, stiffness, seizing up etc; have long had back issues
but didn't limit me much--could sprint, lift weights, do yoga, etc
-intermittent diarrhea, needing to wipe again after poops, burn-y acid-y feeling after poops, some reflux
-coated tongue
-almost non-stop herpes outbreaks (whereas I almost never had them before)

I've been toying with the idea I've had Candida; hampered here a bit by Peat not putting much credence in it.
I'd taken antibiotics several times, sometimes experimenting with low doses of Peatish pharmas for short times, once because of possible dental infection

So anyhow, now, after a couple months with the above regime:
-TSH was at 6.6 and other thyroid measures point to need for more thyroid supp
(I actually was happy to see this, because the signs sure pointed to it.)
-have been able to up my dose 1/2 a grain, so far with no palps; now at 2 grains/day
-temps coming right up to 98.6 or higher after eating in morning
-poops looking better--more like PlayDough extruded, tan in color, less need to re-wipe, less burn-y feel
-no herpes outbreaks

Like I said, hard to know much of anything because of my unscientific method.
But, I'm guessing some good, though complex, effects from MB.
For one thing, I was just listening to the video by Friedlander posted today about MB,
and he noted how it is becoming big news to Candida people.

The white coated tongue has all but disappeared.

I also tend to think the calcium and lysine had a part in the improvements.
I think maybe the calcium calmed my parathyroid, which could've, I guess, caused palpitation.
The lysine I think helped my gut (and maybe beyond, reducing serotonin/estrogen/etc).

Like I said above, don't know quite how to interpret the very low TSH while all signs
pointed to needing more thyroid.
I guess it might be one of those times Peat refers to
where TSH should not be relied upon or can lead one astray.
I'm thinking it reflected my body had the T4 but wasn't able to use it correctly.

I don't know whether this info is of any use,
but...wanted to check back in with some encouraging signs,
maybe related to MB.
-

 

[pboy]

very interesting narouz...but the real question is...have you turned blue?

 

[narouz]

very interesting narouz...but the real question is...have you turned blue?

Ha, yeah.
My tongue turns deep blue for about an hour then mostly fades.
My pee is blue but not enough to stain the toilet, which I understand does happen at higher doses.
No blue whites-of-the-eyes, yet.

The powdered form is a b*tch to handle,
can get all over everything if one is not exceedingly careful.
Those cheap clear throwaway gloves are a good start.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Does anyone get serotonin symptoms when it wears off? I mean shivers, burning nose, swelling, etc.

 

[narouz]

Does anyone get serotonin symptoms when it wears off? I mean shivers, burning nose, swelling, etc.

I haven't experienced that, Such.
But at the same time I don't experience a clear, short-term effect--mental, mood, physical, whatever....

All I can really say is that it seems to be a very mild tonic, perhaps,
in the short-term.
Long-term, I think I may be deriving benefits--
my general health and metabolism do seem to be improving--
but I changed so many things at the same time I started taking the MB
that I really can't say for sure.

 

[haidut]

Does anyone get serotonin symptoms when it wears off? I mean shivers, burning nose, swelling, etc.

I do get those when I take higher doses - i.e. 5mg x 3 a day. Not from the 1mg dose though.

 

[peatra]

I've had a great experience with MB, which I've been taking the last couple of months. I have found it resolved my brain fog and increased my natural activity level - I have CFS - but most interesting to me (since it couldn't be a placebo or MAOI effect) is that splits in my nails, which continued to grow back in the same place even after I cut them back, have repaired themselves and stopped coming back. I know in some quarters (not here) CFS is not seen as a real illness, but to me this is evidence that my cells are energetically compromised and are helped by MB's mitochondrial action. I'm hoping that over time, I'm helped not just by the short term increase in energy, but by benefiting from the effects of long term repair.

I take much more than most people here - anywhere from 15 - 30 mg per day.
Only one MAOI-food interaction -on the first day- a meal with two large plates of cheese pasta, and 2 glasses of red wine. I had a bad headache, and realized the connection. I can eat almost anything but the most aged of cheese or smoked meats, and I can eat those too if you skip the afternoon/evening dose - MB has a short half-life. No reactions since, and I have not avoided cheese or bbq :)

 

[Such_Saturation]

If the brain half life is thirty hours, shouldn't you have like a pound of it by now?

 

[haidut]

If the brain half life is thirty hours, shouldn't you have like a pound of it by now?

I'd second this. Higher doses of MB are only meant to be used for short periods of time. It will build up in the brain and it starts becoming toxic at 5uM. The depression study in humans used 15mg for 2 weeks.
I stopped my high dose experiment after 1 week and now I take high doses only as needed and space it out by several days.
Most people should aim for 1mg-2mg daily as that is the amount producing the optimal concentrations in cells.

 

[peatra]

They are using 3x60 mg doses for Alzheimer's, and they aren't stopping after a few weeks. IV half life is 5.25-6 hours. Since this is oral dosing, not all MB is absorbed, let alone absorbed into the brain. Where are you getting the information of a 30 hour half life?

Your math is a bit off - at this dose, I would have 1-2 grams in my body, if none had been eliminated - which is impossible given it is visibly eliminated by the body - not 1 lb.

 

[peatra]

Also, you are mischaracterizing the depression study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3555627
It was 3 weeks, and they weren't taken off because of ideas about toxicity, that was simply the length of the study.

Here's a description of a study on bipolar disorder, using much higher doses for an extended time, from Longecity. It is behind a Medscape registration wall:

Patients were randomized to 13 weeks of treatment or either low-dose methylene blue (15 mg daily), which was a surrogate for placebo, or high-dose methylene blue (195 mg daily), and then switched to the alternate treatment for the next 13 weeks. Because methylene blue stains urine, it was not possible to use a standard placebo.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/749164
http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/50 ... epression/

My dosage of MB was used as a placebo dose.

 

[haidut]

Also, you are mischaracterizing the depression study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3555627
It was 3 weeks, and they weren't taken off because of ideas about toxicity, that was simply the length of the study.

Here's a description of a study on bipolar disorder, using much higher doses for an extended time, from Longecity. It is behind a Medscape registration wall:

Patients were randomized to 13 weeks of treatment or either low-dose methylene blue (15 mg daily), which was a surrogate for placebo, or high-dose methylene blue (195 mg daily), and then switched to the alternate treatment for the next 13 weeks. Because methylene blue stains urine, it was not possible to use a standard placebo.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/749164
http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/50 ... epression/

My dosage of MB was used as a placebo dose.

I did not say the study was stopped due to toxicity concerns. I suggested it as a possible concern. Also, the brain half life of MB does seem to be over 30h.
This study says MB accumulates in rats brain:
http://www.mpasmb-hamburg.mpg.de/mand-p ... neBlue.pdf

And I think this is the study that gave the 30h brain half life number:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10952480

 

[narouz]

If the brain half life is thirty hours, shouldn't you have like a pound of it by now?

I'd second this. Higher doses of MB are only meant to be used for short periods of time. It will build up in the brain and it starts becoming toxic at 5uM. The depression study in humans used 15mg for 2 weeks.
I stopped my high dose experiment after 1 week and now I take high doses only as needed and space it out by several days.
Most people should aim for 1mg-2mg daily as that is the amount producing the optimal concentrations in cells.

haidut-
What do you make of the study
showing max effectiveness for dementia
at 60mg x 3/day dosage.
As I recall the subjects took that dose for a long time...many months.

In the interview called "Nitric Acid" (I think) w/ The Herb Doctors
Peat personally seemed persuaded of MB's safety,
even when taken at very high levels over a long period of time.
Can't remember exactly what the high levels were now,
but they registered with me at the time as ridiculously high....

*edit: just replied to haidut's earlier post without noting these intervening similar posts.....

 

[haidut]

If the brain half life is thirty hours, shouldn't you have like a pound of it by now?

I'd second this. Higher doses of MB are only meant to be used for short periods of time. It will build up in the brain and it starts becoming toxic at 5uM. The depression study in humans used 15mg for 2 weeks.
I stopped my high dose experiment after 1 week and now I take high doses only as needed and space it out by several days.
Most people should aim for 1mg-2mg daily as that is the amount producing the optimal concentrations in cells.

haidut-
What do you make of the study
showing max effectiveness for dementia
at 60mg x 3/day dosage.
As I recall the subjects took that dose for a long time...many months.

In the interview called "Nitric Acid" (I think) w/ The Herb Doctors
Peat personally seemed persuaded of MB's safety,
even when taken at very high levels over a long period of time.
Can't remember exactly what the high levels were now,
but they registered with me at the time as ridiculously high....

*edit: just replied to haidut's earlier post without noting these intervening similar posts.....

Then I would like to see that statement from Peat b/c from the things I have heard from him it sounds like he thinks the OPTIMAL dose would be <=1mg per day. Why the studies used more than that I am not sure about. Maybe a higher dose would get quicker response in serious diseases like AD.