How To Feminize Women?

[ivy]

Isn't a Ray Peat inspired diet supposed to lower estrogen though? It seems like Peat has nothing good to say about estrogen.

@cyclops, I think you got it right. According to Peat, Progesterone is the quintessential female hormone. I'm not sure sure if the feminizing traits actually depend on the the ratio of Progesterone to Estrogen, though.

Personally, I'd say my curvy body, which I've had since my teens, looked consistently good even when I got thinner and had a bonier face. On the other hand, my face looks terribly puffy in the morning, almost deformed, now that my Progesterone seems to be sinking...

 

[cyclops]

It's mostly neotenization. Small jaw, softer features, larger eyes, etc.

Ok, so this seems to be the opposite of masculine than. How does a woman get more neotenization?

 

[cyclops]

@cyclops, I think you got it right. According to Peat, Progesterone is the quintessential female hormone. I'm not sure sure if the feminizing traits actually depend on the the ratio of Progesterone to Estrogen, though.

Whats a good amount of Progesterone for a woman to take daily? Is it better orally or topically?

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Ok, so this seems to be the opposite of masculine than. How does a woman get more neotenization?

If a woman is already large and masculinized it would basically require tranny meds.

Or you could just do what other women do and use makeup

 

[cyclops]

If a woman is already large and masculinized it would basically require tranny meds.

What are tranny meds?

 

[hiconscience]

I know that salt can be androgenic, I say this only because spirolactone is used for transgender people trying to feminize. spirolactone is basically a potassium sparing salt diuretic.

 

[ivy]

I know that salt can be androgenic, I say this only because spirolactone is used for transgender people trying to feminize. spirolactone is basically a potassium sparing salt diuretic.

Spiro is also used by women with "androgenetic hairloss", if such diagnosis is even acurate. I've used it and fortunately I've quit. I don't want to move away from the original subject, but blaming salt hardly seems advisable.

 

[hiconscience]

I'm not blaming salt just informing her on a well used "tranny med." salt increases aldosterone, for some people, and may be a contributing factor... but there isnt a magical feminizing pill.

 

[meatbag]

"It has been known for many years that decreasing sodium intake causes the body to respond adaptively, increasing the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system (RAAS). The activation of this system is recognized as a factor in hypertension, kidney disease, heart failure, fibrosis of the heart, and other problems. Sodium restriction also increases serotonin, activity of the sympathetic nervous system, and plasminogen activator inhibitor type-1 (PAI-1), which contributes to the accumulation of clots and is associated with breast and prostate cancer. The sympathetic nervous system becomes hyperactive in preeclampsia (Metsaars, et al., 2006)."

"Now that inflammation is recognized as having a central role in the degenerative diseases, the fact that renin, angiotensin, and aldosterone all contribute to inflammation and are increased by a sodium deficiency, should arouse interest in exploring the therapeutic uses of sodium supplementation, and the integrated use of all of the factors that normally support respiratory energy production, especially thyroid and progesterone. Progesterone’s antagonism to aldosterone has been known for many years, and the synthetic antialdosterone drugs are simply poor imitations of progesterone."
- Salt, energy, metabolic rate, and longevity


"Pre-eclampsia and pregnancy toxemia have been corrected (Shanklin and Hodin, 1979) by both increased dietary protein and increased salt, which improve circulation, lower blood pressure, and prevent seizures, while reducing vascular leakiness. The effectiveness of increased salt in pre-eclampsia led me to suggest it for women with premenstrual edema, because both conditions typically involve high estrogen, hyponatremia, and a tendency toward hypo-osmolarity. Estrogen itself causes sodium loss, reduced osmolarity, and increased capillary leakiness. Combined with a high protein diet, eating a little extra salt usually helps to correct a variety of problems involving edema, poor circulation, and high blood pressure.


One of the things that happen when there isn't enough sodium in the diet is that more aldosterone is synthesized. Aldosterone causes less sodium to be lost in the urine and sweat, but it achieves that at the expense of the increased loss of potassium, magnesium, and probably calcium. The loss of potassium leads to vasoconstriction, which contributes to heart and kidney failure and high blood pressure. The loss of magnesium contributes to vasoconstriction, inflammation, and bone loss. Magnesium deficiency is extremely common, but a little extra salt in the diet makes it easier to retain the magnesium in our foods.

Darkness and hypothyroidism both reduce the activity of cytochrome oxidase, making cells more susceptible to stress. A promoter of excitotoxicity, ouabain, or a lack of salt, can function as the equivalent of darkness, in resetting the biological rhythms (Zatz, 1989, 1991)." Water: swelling, tension, pain, fatigue, aging


"Progesterone is generally supportive of hair growth and has been shown to increases IGF-1[34] and lower aldosterone.[35] The historical treatments for pattern baldness cyproterone acetate and spironolactone are both progesterone-like,[36,37] and spironolactone has been shown to reduce TGF-b1.[38] The harzadous drug, finasteride has been shown to lower TGF-b1,[39] and in a small study, its efficancy was related to the upregulation of IGF-1.[40]"
The Mysterious Conductor of the Hair Cycle Clock

1. Stripp, B., et al. Effect of spironolactone on sex hormones in man. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1975 Oct;41(4):777-81. "Administration spironolactone at a dosage of 400 mg/day to healthy male volunteers for 5 days resulted in a significant rise in plasma progesterone and 17alpha-hydroxyprogesterone which persisted throughout the study.”
   
   
2. Zhang, L., et al. The aldosterone receptor antagonist spironolactone prevents peritoneal inflammation and fibrosis. Lab Invest. 2014 Aug;94(8):839-50. "Spironolactone decreased peritoneal inflammation and fibrosis, which was associated with reduced secretion from peritoneal macrophages, inactivation of the c-Jun N-terminal kinase (JNK) pathway and subsequent downregulation of the expression of TGF-β1."

 

[hiconscience]

yes it blocks aldosterone by being a salt diuretic correct? i know it has many other uses edema from cirrhosis and left sided heart failure from high aldosterone...it is a potassium sparing salt diuretic. but when I was younger and first started my period it was highly irregular. I ate a lot of processed foods as a child and literally ate at least one jar of pickles a day (I was obsessed haha) my doctor said I had blood pressure on the high side and my aldosterone was high and put me on yaz which contains a low dose spirolactone. my acne cleared up, my hair thickness increased, my breasts got huge and a lot of other feminizing attributes I enjoyed as a child. after a year I got off the yaz and fortunately havent had a problem with my cycle since. (I have also changed my eating habits monumentally) maybe all the processed foods were the cause of high aldosterone....but all those foods are highly salted and I definately didn't eat enough fresh fruits and veggies (potassium). maybe I am just a strange case (hyperaldosterone) or maybe the large amounts of salt and low potassium created more aldosterone in my body somehow. just a insight on my experience not science backed whatsoever. but I love salt and eat it with every meal now.

 

[hiconscience]

I personally have also noticed more edema when i eat alooot of salt and puffiness in general. But like I said maybe my body is different.

 

[LUH 3417]

There's an Ayurvedic text that says men are like horses and women are like cows. Women move slowly. That's a start.

 

[Prosper]

Men are, on average, larger and manlier than women.

Underrated insight.

 

[schultz]

Whats a good amount of Progesterone for a woman to take daily? Is it better orally or topically?

Ray recommends taking progesterone cyclically, not everyday. It should correspond to your monthly cycle

Isn't a Ray Peat inspired diet supposed to lower estrogen though? It seems like Peat has nothing good to say about estrogen.

Ray says that estrogen should peak for a small period each month. Progesterone comes into play to protect against excessive estrogen and ready the body for pregnancy. He talks about estrogen like it's a growth type of hormone. Growth needs to be very controlled though.

 

[Stilgar]

Ray said something interesting about the effect of estrogen causing the thyroid to swell during puberty, which corresponds to the heightened definitions of neck lines on women. He suggested it was something that tended to make women attractive.

It isn't exactly an endorsement of estrogen as such, rather suggesting it plays a role in female attractiveness. Estrogen has a role, like prolactin, but should pulse for a short duration and be balanced with sufficient progesterone. Neither hormone alone would completely define attractiveness.

 

[ivy]

Ray recommends taking progesterone cyclically, not everyday. It should correspond to your monthly cycle

Are there any written guidelines? Do you happen to know if Ray stated this in an interview, newsletter or email advice?


Ray says that estrogen should peak for a small period each month. Progesterone comes into play to protect against excessive estrogen and ready the body for pregnancy. He talks about estrogen like it's a growth type of hormone. Growth needs to be very controlled though.

Right. As far as I can tell, Ray has not described any symptoms of Progesterone dominance. How would one recognize it? Could there be a risk besides increased fertility? This concern, and the fact that it's not an easy find in Europe, are what keeps me from giving it a try.

 

[cyclops]

Ray says that estrogen should peak for a small period each month. Progesterone comes into play to protect against excessive estrogen and ready the body for pregnancy. He talks about estrogen like it's a growth type of hormone. Growth needs to be very controlled though.

If a woman recently had a baby and is breastfeeding and not getting her period, it is probably a good time to take progesterone though, correct? Because her progesterone is high during pregnancy, but then drops after? When the woman gets her period again, then progesterone should be taken cyclically?

 

[Queequeg]

@Queequeg[/USER] is actually making a very good point with his joke. So I'll raise the bar with an extra question: what can women in general learn from the mtf trans community, as means to enhance or maintain their femalehood? Can anyone provide a breakdown list of standard hormone shots? What additional supplements are involved? What specific nutritional recommendations are made to those becoming women?

Thanks for finding some helpfulness in my clearly non-helpful post. I think trying to copy what MTF trans are taking could be dangerous. Optimize your hormones for health per Ray's suggestions and I am sure the femininity will come. However the trans crowd has certainly optimized everything else you could try so here is a good list I found. I am all in favor of women becoming more feminine and men becoming more masculine.
How to Feminize Your Face (MTF Transgender / Crossdressing Tips)

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

There's an Ayurvedic text that says men are like horses and women are like cows. Women move slowly. That's a start.

Where are all the good free-range grass-fed women?

 

[LUH 3417]

Where are all the good free-range grass-fed women?

Probably with all the virile muscular and majestic horses.