Help me come up with a low methionine diet for a loved one with cancer

[ecstatichamster]

l-Methioninase 5 mg twice a day can further lower methionine to great effect

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/341144901_Oral_dosing_of_Recombinant_Methioninase_Is_Associated_With_a_70_Drop_in_PSA_in_a_Patient_With_Bone-metastatic_Prostate_Cancer_and_50_Reduction_in_Circulating_Methionine_in_a_High-stage_Ovarian_Cancer_

Background/aim: Methionine addiction is a general and fundamental hallmark of cancer. Methionine addiction can be targeted by methionine restriction (MR).

Our laboratory has studied methionine addiction in cancer and MR for almost 50 years. The present study describes oral recombinant methioninase (o-rMETase), as a supplement, to induce MR in cancer patients.

Patients and methods: One patient, a 67-year-old female with high-stage ovarian cancer took o-rMETase twice a day at 250 units per dose for approximately one month.

A second patient, a 76-year-old male with bone-metastatic prostate cancer, took o-rMETase twice a day at 250 units per dose during three months. Results: The first patient's circulating methionine levels decreased 50% within 4 hours of taking 250 units of o-rMETase.

The second patient's PSA dropped approximately 70% over 3 months. During this time the patient's hemoglobin increased.

Conclusion: o-rMETase has no side effects and is potentially efficacious. Future studies involving larger cohorts of patients with high-stage cancer are required to determine if o-rMETase, as a supplement, can increase survival and improve the quality of life.

 

[Honeycomb]

@ecstatichamster I have just come across this information and hope you can find the methionine food tables useful.

How to Starve Cancer Naturally

howtostarvecancernaturally.com

 

[lamassu]

Can you tolerate potato juice if not potatoes?

 

[GTW]

Reducing dietary methionine is your proxy for the bottom line, fighting cancer.
I look at the broader picture:
Caveat mTOR, beware of Me
Accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative
Here's a possible complementary intervention:
>P5P plays an important role in the build and break down of amino acids from one form to another. P5P has the ability to lower levels of homocysteine in the body, an amino acid which is a potential risk factor for cardiovascular disease, by reducing methionine.

 

[Honeycomb]

@ecstatichamster

Low Methionine Recipes​

Low Methionine Recipes - Integrative Care

Research shows that methionine can fuel the growth of cancer cells. Restricting methionine makes sense in a cancer diet plan. Low methionine recipes.

integrativecare.com.au

I have also personally found @Rinse & rePeat “Low fat recipes for cancer thread” very useful with lots of info, relevant quotes from Ray Peat and easy recipes. I regularly make her broccoli and asparagus soup. The lemon zest makes it a really tasty dish.

 

[lamassu]

Looking around I'm thinking: defatted peanut butter (refatted with mct oil or?), lentils or peas if tolerated, well cooked mushrooms and greens, fruit of all kinds, macadamia nuts, potato juice, white sweet potatoes and other tubers, gelatinous broth, butter, coffee, watermelon salad with vinaigrette, baked beans maybe. Could add BCAA or other specific protein powders

 

[GTW]

Looking around I'm thinking: defatted peanut butter (refatted with mct oil or?), lentils or peas if tolerated, well cooked mushrooms and greens, fruit of all kinds, macadamia nuts, potato juice, white sweet potatoes and other tubers, gelatinous broth, butter, coffee, watermelon salad with vinaigrette, baked beans maybe. Could add BCAA or other specific protein powders

BCAA are potential bad actors.

 

[lamassu]

BCAA are potential bad actors.

Fair enough. How so? I thought some liked them for competing with tryptophan

 

[GTW]

AI says,
>Branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs) have been linked to insulin resistance, diabetes, and obesity in both humans and rodents. The BCAAs isoleucine and valine, but not leucine, have been implicated in these conditions.

 

[lamassu]

AI says,
>Branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs) have been linked to insulin resistance, diabetes, and obesity in both humans and rodents. The BCAAs isoleucine and valine, but not leucine, have been implicated in these conditions.

Thank you. There may be some better alternatives aminos besides BCAA that could be added to a low methionine diet. glycine, taurine, proline, etc?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I have also personally found @Rinse & rePeat “Low fat recipes for cancer thread” very useful with lots of info, relevant quotes from Ray Peat and easy recipes. I regularly make her broccoli and asparagus soup. The lemon zest makes it a really tasty dish.

Honeycomb that made me so happy, and a little tearful, to read this, that that thread of mine is helpful to you. You are a blessing to this forum, thank you for sharing.

 

[Morten]

Is yoghurt low in methionine?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Is yoghurt low in methionine?

Yogurt is high in lactic acid which is not good for cancer.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

There is some evidence that low methionine can achieve health miracles.

Gerson’s diet is low in methionine. McDougall and Kempner have helped cure people of many intractable diseases with a rice diet or a “plant based diet.”

A diet could be put together with fruit, rice, masa harina, maybe potatoes if you tolerate them, well cooked veggies.

The problem is protein. I wouldn’t be eating beans or lentils, and that seems to be the primary plant protein source.

Milk has a lot of methionine, but collagen does not. So collagen, if tolerated, could be a good protein source.

I’m thinking butter is okay.

breakfast of masa harina, with butter, salt and pepper

lunch of white rice and veggies

dinner potatoes and sauce, well cooked veggies

coffee with collagen

Seems to be pretty bare bones…View attachment 60548

I would add an egg yolk, not the white. It is in that group of perfect foods, and pair it with something fat free.

 

[Highserotonin90]

There is a site that correlates potatoes containing calcitonin and being negative for osteoarthritis/arthritis...also it seems to inhibit the choline degrading enzyme...things to take into consideration.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

There is some evidence that low methionine can achieve health miracles.

Gerson’s diet is low in methionine. McDougall and Kempner have helped cure people of many intractable diseases with a rice diet or a “plant based diet.”

A diet could be put together with fruit, rice, masa harina, maybe potatoes if you tolerate them, well cooked veggies.

The problem is protein. I wouldn’t be eating beans or lentils, and that seems to be the primary plant protein source.

Milk has a lot of methionine, but collagen does not. So collagen, if tolerated, could be a good protein source.

I’m thinking butter is okay.

breakfast of masa harina, with butter, salt and pepper

lunch of white rice and veggies

dinner potatoes and sauce, well cooked veggies

coffee with collagen

Seems to be pretty bare bones…View attachment 60548

Looking at your attachment you should get rid of the skin on your potatoes and the cauliflower. Adding in well cooked broccoli and maybe some parsnips. Add in raw carrots (preferably purple rainbow carrots, not the orange ones) between meals and/or artichoke hearts to clean up estrogens and unwanted bacteria. I regularly soak organic frozen fruit like blueberries and raspberries, and sometimes add in organic orange peels, in water overnight and drink the colorful nutrient dense water, while avoiding the fiber and seeds. Raspberries are a natural source of aspirin and orange peels are good for reducing inflammation. Both have cancer fighting abilities…

“In the tumor microenvironment, from cancer cells initiation to promotion and eventually progression, compelling evidence indicates the potential activities of flavonoids in citrus peel cover inhibiting oncogenesis, proliferation, neovascularization, and metastasis and inducing apoptosis.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4163462/#:~:text=In%20the%20tumor%20microenvironment%2C%20from,and%20metastasis%20and%20inducing%20apoptosis.

“Move over black raspberries. New research shows that a variety of other types of berries – including more readily available and affordable blueberries, strawberries and red raspberries – along with more exotic and expensive varieties like noni, acaí (pronounced ah-sye-EE) and wolfberries – may prevent cancer about as well as previously studied black raspberries.”

Common Berries Fight Cancer As Well As Exotic Varieties

COLUMBUS, Ohio – Move over black raspberries. New research shows that a variety of other types of berries – including more readily available and affordable

cancer.osu.edu

 

[ecstatichamster]

all great ideas

add an egg yolk
a few ounces of hard cheese not yogurt or milk (the cheese is much lower in methionine perhaps)
lots of rice, masa harina, maybe potatoes
lots of well cooked veggies
berries and fruit
raw carrot

 

[GTW]

Why? A daisy chain of mechanistic reductionist assumptions invites questioning their validity in the context of the original goal, fighting cancer.
Sarcopenia is a result of immune system response to cancer. The response could be maladaptive if prolonged but initially it's a result and cause of inhibiting mTOR, promoting autophagy, suppressing cancer.
A person can live a long time with mTOR inhibiting low protein diet. Perhaps it's a good trade-off.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Why? A daisy chain of mechanistic reductionist assumptions invites questioning their validity in the context of the original goal, fighting cancer.
Sarcopenia is a result of immune system response to cancer. The response could be maladaptive if prolonged but initially it's a result and cause of inhibiting mTOR, promoting autophagy, suppressing cancer.
A person can live a long time with mTOR inhibiting low protein diet. Perhaps it's a good trade-off.

I don't understand what you are suggesting?

There is lots of evidence for inhibiting methionine as a way to slow down cancer and prolong life in general.

 

[Osukhan]

Looking around I'm thinking: defatted peanut butter (refatted with mct oil or?), lentils or peas if tolerated, well cooked mushrooms and greens, fruit of all kinds, macadamia nuts, potato juice, white sweet potatoes and other tubers, gelatinous broth, butter, coffee, watermelon salad with vinaigrette, baked beans maybe. Could add BCAA or other specific protein powders

yea i would be curious to see the use of MAP proteins / Amino acids or isolated leucine to help prevent muscle wasting