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Good question. I also wonder of there is any other way to effect PTH than having a high calcium to phosphate ratio. If K2 or d3 or something downregulated pth. Wouldn't that be a reason to think it's somehow making us require less dietary calcium.. i don't like the taste of egg shells anyway. And some studies might show calcium supplements increasing risk for heart attacks, tho I haven't looked into it enough to have a legit opinion on it.Is there any studies of biochemistry showing that if we take high doses of vitamin d3 and our calcium needs increase?
Some people say calcium needs decrease with higher k2 intake
If you take a bunch of vitamin K2 it's going to drop blood levels of calcium as it pushes it into the bones. If you're not getting enough calcium (plus/or enough Vit D to enhance calcium absorption) to supply what Vitamin K2 is putting away then your body will sense calcium is too low and release PTH and prolactin to try to bring calcium levels up which will kill muscle tone, mood, and erections. Big dose K2 without adequate calcium is like pressing the gas while holding the brake at the same time. It won't be a good outcome. Note that it may be hard to really know what adequate calcium intake is for a huge amount of K2 since it hasn't had a lot of study except in old people where they need to pull calcium out of arteries.
Anecdotally I can say that when I take vitamin K orally I feel my teeth hurting after that every time. I thought it wasnt the vitamin K directly but now I tend to think it is. The teeth sensitivity doesnt occur when I put the K in a gelatin capsule.I don't have a study, but I do have an interesting comment that I've made note of from a few years back:
I’m no expert, but I’ve mainly read the opposite from people’s anecdotal experiences, that calcium needs can increase with k2. The dose likely matters tooIs there any studies of biochemistry showing that if we take high doses of vitamin d3 and our calcium needs increase?
Some people say calcium needs decrease with higher k2 intake
I found this podcast episode from Chris Masterjohn (also mentioned above) interesting regarding your question (if you haven’t heard it already). He goes into detail regarding calcium, phosphorus, vitamin D, PTH and their interplay. If I understood his explanation correctly, a healthy level of vitamin D could lower PTH, by ensuring adequate calcium absorption, thereby negating the need for PTH to kick in.Good question. I also wonder of there is any other way to effect PTH than having a high calcium to phosphate ratio. If K2 or d3 or something downregulated pth. Wouldn't that be a reason to think it's somehow making us require less dietary calcium.. i don't like the taste of egg shells anyway. And some studies might show calcium supplements increasing risk for heart attacks, tho I haven't looked into it enough to have a legit opinion on it.
This does not address the roles of Vit A, Vit K in various distinct forms, and Mg.I’m no expert, but I’ve mainly read the opposite from people’s anecdotal experiences, that calcium needs can increase with k2. The dose likely matters too
I asked a similar question awhile back
Any issues supplementing K2 without much calcium in the diet
from The Vitamin D Solution
by Michael F. Holick (the guy who helped set the vitamin D recommendations some labs use I believe)
“We all need calcium to survive, just as we need water. But there's a certain balance to be struck, a so called homeostasis…. Too little calcium in your blood (a condition called hypocalcemia), soft tissue cells – especially nerves and muscles, which rely on calcium to operate — become dysfunctional. Your entire neuromuscular system will become abnormally excitable, and impulses may be triggered spontaneously. This, in effect, sends your body into convulsions as muscles, including those of the respiratory system, contract uncontrollably. In this situation, a person can die from failure to breathe. The heart, which also depends on calcium to beat properly, can lose its rhythm, with fatal consequences. Conversely, if there is too much calcium in the blood (a condition called hypercalcemia), organs calcify and eventually cease to work…
So you can see how important it is to maintain steady and healthy levels of calcium in the body. You can also see how vitamin D promotes healthy bones by indirectly maintaining adequate serum calcium and phosphorus for bone mineralization to occur. Vitamin D controls the level of calcium in the blood. If there is not enough calcium in the diet, then it will be drawn from the bone. High levels of vitamin D (from the diet or from sunlight) will actually demineralize bone if sufficient calcium is not present.”
- Pg 201
Vitamin K, which?Anecdotally I can say that when I take vitamin K orally I feel my teeth hurting after that every time. I thought it wasnt the vitamin K directly but now I tend to think it is. The teeth sensitivity doesnt occur when I put the K in a gelatin capsule.
So maybe it is pulling the calcium from the teeth ,which would'nt be good!
Those are relevant and important too no doubt. Perhaps you care to elaborate? I’m no expert…This does not address the roles of Vit A, Vit K in various distinct forms, and Mg.
Beyond a shadow of a doubt, this happens to me as well when I take K2 (mk4). Supplementing calcium also causes me trouble: constipation, as well as feeling off; but I did take it a few times to see if it would prevent the teeth from hurting, and if remember accurately it either reduced it considerably or eliminated it. But, I"ll have to test it again. I feel so bad after taking k2, like for 10-12 days after, that I'm hesitant to take it again.Anecdotally I can say that when I take vitamin K orally I feel my teeth hurting after that every time.
Good point.A person doesn't burn calcium like calories. A healthy adult is not building up bones or trying to increase calcium. The calcium removed from bones by osteoclast activity is equally useful for osteoblast, so will readily be recycled.
And, there are better cations to neutralize acids. Potassium notably. Magnesium also plays a role. Magnesium deficiency is common.