Copper Toxicity Syndrome

[YuraCZ]

post 101487 So, YuraCZ, it seems you are experimenting with Dr Eck after gbolduev talked about it so much. Have you seen any improvements?

I'm doing detox for 14 days now. Low copper and high zinc diet, 10g of vit C, 50 g of zinc, some chromium.. I feel more hypothyroid here and there and my stool was first week yellow/white. So will see..

 

[messtafarian]

I think this is nonsense. Go to any food database and look for foods that are a good source of copper. There are nearly none except for chocolate. Most processed foods have NO copper -- quite a few plant and fruit foods have far less copper than they used to because of industrial farming. Foods listed as high in copper are dependent on the dirt they are grown in. Adults need a 1 mg of copper a day and they are not getting it.

If your stomach or duodenum are compromised due to low stomach acid, lost intrinsic factor or any other digestive issue you won't be absorbing any copper you do ingest.

Copper deficiency is a far more serious and widespread problem and the problem is -- if you don't get *enough* copper, your spine will disintegrate.

Disintegrate. Demyelination will show up on the MRI and *even adding the copper back* will not restore the spine. The only thing to do is stop more deterioration. Copper deficiency damage is irreversible.

DO NOT CHELATE YOUR COPPER. You need it.

 

[dd99]

I've been keeping track of my nutrient intake through Cronometer. I eat pretty Peaty, but usually get 1-2g copper and 10-12g zinc a day from food. That is way below the 0.7 copper : 1 zinc ratio Kresser talks about in the link you provided. According to that, I should be supplementing copper!

I don't know what my point is...

 

[messtafarian]

BTW, Paul Jaminet, who supplements nothing, supplements copper, 2mg a day.

 

[YuraCZ]

post 101505 I've been keeping track of my nutrient intake through Cronometer. I eat pretty Peaty, but usually get 1-2g copper and 10-12g zinc a day from food. That is way below the 0.7 copper : 1 zinc ratio Kresser talks about in the link you provided. According to that, I should be supplementing copper!

I don't know what my point is...

2g of copper and 12g of zinc?

 

[YuraCZ]

post 101504 I think this is nonsense. Go to any food database and look for foods that are a good source of copper. There are nearly none except for chocolate. Most processed foods have NO copper -- quite a few plant and fruit foods have far less copper than they used to because of industrial farming. Foods listed as high in copper are dependent on the dirt they are grown in. Adults need a 1 mg of copper a day and they are not getting it.

If your stomach or duodenum are compromised due to low stomach acid, lost intrinsic factor or any other digestive issue you won't be absorbing any copper you do ingest.

Copper deficiency is a far more serious and widespread problem and the problem is -- if you don't get *enough* copper, your spine will disintegrate.

Disintegrate. Demyelination will show up on the MRI and *even adding the copper back* will not restore the spine. The only thing to do is stop more deterioration. Copper deficiency damage is irreversible.

DO NOT CHELATE YOUR COPPER. You need it.

And how much zinc have average Joe in the diet? It is about ratios. In stress, high estrogen etc. you lose zinc and other minerals and due to low ceruloplasmin you retain copper in the organs and at the same time, you can't use this stored copper. So you end up with "copper deficiency" and hypothyroidism, estrogen dominance, sluggishness of the liver etc. will be worse and worse. You have no idea what you talking about..

 

[Giraffe]

post 101489 I'm doing detox for 14 days now. Low copper and high zinc diet, 10g of vit C, 50 g of zinc, some chromium.. I feel more hypothyroid here and there and my stool was first week yellow/white. So will see..

"Ascorbic acid causes copper to separate from ceruloplasmin." (from the interview with Morley Robbins, part 1, 22:40)

Unbound copper going wild? Isn't this the opposite of what you want?

 

[YuraCZ]

post 101526

post 101489 I'm doing detox for 14 days now. Low copper and high zinc diet, 10g of vit C, 50 g of zinc, some chromium.. I feel more hypothyroid here and there and my stool was first week yellow/white. So will see..

"Ascorbic acid causes copper to separate from ceruloplasmin." (from the interview with Morley Robbins, part 1, 22:40)

Unbound copper going wild? Isn't this is the opposite of what you want?

I have different view on this. Ascorbic acid is what animals can synthesize and ascorbic acid will prevent scurvy. So I don't buy this anti ascorbic acid talking. Sodium ascorbate with lemon juice works great for me..

Some good info
[bbvideo=560,315]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0LLX0sgwAU[/bbvideo]

 

[dd99]

post 101514

post 101505 I've been keeping track of my nutrient intake through Cronometer. I eat pretty Peaty, but usually get 1-2g copper and 10-12g zinc a day from food. That is way below the 0.7 copper : 1 zinc ratio Kresser talks about in the link you provided. According to that, I should be supplementing copper!

I don't know what my point is...

2g of copper and 12g of zinc?

Autocorrect. Doesn't make the ratio or comment any less valid.

 

[bornamachine]

Ive studied Paul Eck quite a bit, the problem with his system is that is so ahead of our time with so many variables its impossible to make it work especially with so much working against htma. I know though that that with an arl hair test ive diagnosed myself to have iron overload, confirmed it via blood test and fixed via blood donations, ive brought myself out of the low 4's which he described as undoable unless you put the adrenals to sleep. What ever did happen to Paul Eck? I believe he passed away in his 70s but I can find anything else. He did publish a very good article though, best ive ever read I believe, in a nutshell, he said that giving anyone any isolated mineral even vitamin is dangerous, you are better not taking anything at all if you dont know you need that one substance, amen dr Eck, amen, rip. On the htmal (hair tissue mineral analysis) note, I know Andy Cutler, a n nonsense kind of chemist or whatever uses DDI hair tests to test for deranged mineral transport and diagnoses such as caused by mercury, ive studied him extensively as well when I was really sick.

 

[messtafarian]

post 101504 I think this is nonsense. Go to any food database and look for foods that are a good source of copper. There are nearly none except for chocolate. Most processed foods have NO copper -- quite a few plant and fruit foods have far less copper than they used to because of industrial farming. Foods listed as high in copper are dependent on the dirt they are grown in. Adults need a 1 mg of copper a day and they are not getting it.

If your stomach or duodenum are compromised due to low stomach acid, lost intrinsic factor or any other digestive issue you won't be absorbing any copper you do ingest.

Copper deficiency is a far more serious and widespread problem and the problem is -- if you don't get *enough* copper, your spine will disintegrate.

Disintegrate. Demyelination will show up on the MRI and *even adding the copper back* will not restore the spine. The only thing to do is stop more deterioration. Copper deficiency damage is irreversible.

DO NOT CHELATE YOUR COPPER. You need it.

And how much zinc have average Joe in the diet? It is about ratios. In stress, high estrogen etc. you lose zinc and other minerals and due to low ceruloplasmin you retain copper in the organs and at the same time, you can't use this stored copper. So you end up with "copper deficiency" and hypothyroidism, estrogen dominance, sluggishness of the liver etc. will be worse and worse. You have no idea what you talking about..

Oh, I think I do. Far less copper is stored in the liver -- most is stored in human bone and muscle. If the body needs it, it will liberate it from either one. Meaning -- that if copper is low and the body needs it, it will start raiding tissue stores, not the liver.

Zinc is far more available in the human diet than copper is. Zinc is at satisfactory levels if your diet contains any kind of animal protein -- including milk and cheese. If you are a vegan or a protein under-eater, chances are you are zinc deficient but if you're eating animal protein you're probably getting enough. Driving down copper will not bring up zinc if you don't have any to begin with. Taking zinc *without* copper can mess up ceruplasmin. The opposite is not true -- taking copper without zinc does not have the same effect. However, if you have been taking too much zinc to the point that you are copper deficient, you'll need to go to the hospital to get your copper levels restored because the intestines will have been altered by the zinc, possibly forever.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/100/3/341.full.pdf

 

[Brian]

I disagree with the idea of using complex protocols to improve zinc and copper status. I agree more with Dr. Garrett Smith's method of focusing on improving calcium and magnesium status, as well as general metabolism (with simple things like vitamin A, K2, magnesium, B6) to set the conditions for the minor minerals to be used and deposited correctly.

 

[YuraCZ]

I'm in different situation. Due to steroid abuse I was for years under insane estrogen overload. I learned so much last two years and finally I know how fix this mess..

 

[messtafarian]

it is your business and your body but I feel compelled to tell you that too much estrogen is a problem, and too much copper is not.

I don't need to be right. I just want you and whoever reads these boards to be safe.

 

[milk_lover]

Sometimes after I eat beef liver in large quantity (+250g), my hair texture gets messed up and not as thick as I want it to be . I don't know if this is related to too much vit A blocking my thyroid, too much copper interfering with zinc status, or/and inflammatory amino acids like cystine..

 

[YuraCZ]

http://www.coppertoxic.com/

 

[SaltGirl]

http://www.health-science-spirit.com/copper.html

 

[Giraffe]

post 101697 http://www.health-science-spirit.com/copper.html

SaltGirl, did you mention elsewhere that taurine might deplete copper? Do you know for sure?

 

[narouz]

post 101698

post 101697 http://www.health-science-spirit.com/copper.html

SaltGirl, did you mention elsewhere that taurine might deplete copper? Do you know for sure?

hmmm...that is interesting to me too...

 

[narouz]

fwiw...I've come across this on an autism forum...
http://www.autismweb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28848

by JeniB » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:51 pm

Taurine will really increase some metals being output into the bile. It can be helpful if you're using something to grab the metals...but this will definitely make yeast worse. Taurine will especially cause copper to be dumped into the bile in larger amounts.