Phytoestrogen is having an anti-estrogenic effect.....Sage (Salvia officinalis) tea

[ddjd]

Ive been experimenting with Sage tea recently. Originally i read that Sage can lower TGF-beta so i wanted to try it for helping against male pattern baldness.

But ive started noticing some strong anti estrogenic effects. I definitely have issues with estrogen and I am slightly overweight and often have a bloated stomach. If i drink sage tea, the bloat is noticably smaller to the point where people are commenting on it. The only other thing that had a similar effect like this was Exemestane - an irreversible aromatase inhibitor i.e. estrogen blocker.

I know peat and haidut generally suggest to be very careful with phytoestrogens but Sage is showing some very positive properites for me at least.

other benefits ive noticed:

- strong cognitive boost
- better focus
- relaxing effect suggesting some GABA- promoting properties
- more resilient in stressful situations

Usual estrogenic traits, at least for me, are weak bladder, bloating, palpitations, inability to handle stress, and sage tea is actually having the opposite effect.

some interesting articles i came across on sage (Salvia officinalis)

This article suggests Sage has anti-diabetic properties:
Bioactive Components of Salvia and Their Potential Antidiabetic Properties: A Review

Reduces Nitric Oxide synthesis / inflammation:

Effects of Salvia officinalis L. extract on experimental acute inflammation - PubMed

Salvia officinalis tincture had antiinflammatory effects by reducing marrow acute phase response and NO synthesis.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/285736864_Inhibitory_effect_of_Salvia_officinalis_on_the_inflammatory_cytokines_and_inducible_nitric_oxide_synthesis_in_murine_macrophage_RAW2647

ANTI-NEURODEGENERATIVE EFFECTS OF SAGE (SALVIA OFFICINALIS)

https://digital.library.txstate.edu/bitstream/handle/10877/6335/Brandon%20Jamison_Thesis%20Revision%2007-12-2012.pdf?isAllowed=y&sequence=1

 

[whollygod]

Ive been experimenting with Sage tea recently. Originally i read that Sage can lower TGF-beta so i wanted to try it for helping against male pattern baldness.

But ive started noticing some strong anti estrogenic effects. I definitely have issues with estrogen and I am slightly overweight and often have a bloated stomach. If i drink sage tea, the bloat is noticably smaller to the point where people are commenting on it. The only other thing that had a similar effect like this was Exemestane - an irreversible aromatase inhibitor i.e. estrogen blocker.

I know peat and haidut generally suggest to be very careful with phytoestrogens but Sage is showing some very positive properites for me at least.

other benefits ive noticed:

- strong cognitive boost
- better focus
- relaxing effect suggesting some GABA- promoting properties
- more resilient in stressful situations

Usual estrogenic traits, at least for me, are weak bladder, bloating, palpitations, inability to handle stress, and sage tea is actually having the opposite effect.

some interesting articles i came across on sage (Salvia officinalis)

This article suggests Sage has anti-diabetic properties:
Bioactive Components of Salvia and Their Potential Antidiabetic Properties: A Review

Reduces Nitric Oxide synthesis / inflammation:

Effects of Salvia officinalis L. extract on experimental acute inflammation - PubMed

Salvia officinalis tincture had antiinflammatory effects by reducing marrow acute phase response and NO synthesis.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/285736864_Inhibitory_effect_of_Salvia_officinalis_on_the_inflammatory_cytokines_and_inducible_nitric_oxide_synthesis_in_murine_macrophage_RAW2647

ANTI-NEURODEGENERATIVE EFFECTS OF SAGE (SALVIA OFFICINALIS)

https://digital.library.txstate.edu/bitstream/handle/10877/6335/Brandon%20Jamison_Thesis%20Revision%2007-12-2012.pdf?isAllowed=y&sequence=1

What brand do you use?

 

[ddjd]

What brand do you use?

this is the one i was using, but you can only get this brand in germany i believe.

its such a perennial plant you coudl probably just pick/grow your own

 

[boris]

Why are you thinking that it’s the phytoestrogens causing this? Milk has estrogen too, but we don’t credit the estrogen in it for milk’s positive effects.

 

[ddjd]

Why are you thinking that it’s the phytoestrogens causing this? Milk has estrogen too, but we don’t credit the estrogen in it for milk’s positive effects.

Where did I say that I think it's an effect of the phytoestrogens?

I simply said for me it's a phytoestrogen substance with antiestrogenic effects

 

[Jonk]

Same with rheum palmatum root (rhubarb). Contains phytoestrogens but doesn't seem to have an estrogenic effect whatsoever. Maybe all the other substances like anthraquinones makes up for it.

 

[boris]

Where did I say that I think it's an effect of the phytoestrogens?

 

[rzero]

Haidut mentions here that flavones such as apigenin (in sage) are anti-estrogenic, but I often see them described as phytoestrogens.

Breast Cancer Survivors Who Use Estrogenic Botanical Supplements Have Lower Serum Estrogen Levels

Breast cancer survivors who use estrogenic botanical supplements have lower serum estrogen levels than non users The authors seem to agree that lower serum estrogen is correlated to lower breast cancer risk, but the part I found interesting is the ambiguity surrounding whether particular...

raypeatforum.com

Estrogenic activity of Sage (Salvia officinalis L.) aerial parts and its isolated ferulic acid in immature ovariectomized female rats

Common sage (Salvia officinalis L., Lamiaceae), a medicinal plant of Mediterranean origin, has been traditionally applied in cases of excessive sweati…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[ddjd]

Same with rheum palmatum root (rhubarb). Contains phytoestrogens but doesn't seem to have an estrogenic effect whatsoever. Maybe all the other substances like anthraquinones makes up for it.

Interesting point, maybe there some quinone like properties in sage/ Salvia officinalis

I've started just eating fresh sage from the garden, a few leaves here and there and the effect is POTENTLY anti estrogenic. A very interesting herb

In a separate thread someone mentioned;

"Salvia Officinalis extract has flavonoids that act the same way, positively modulating GABA-A, and could be helpful as alternative, maybe even restore (GABA) sensitivity"

 

[ddjd]

Sage also contains Naringenin and Apeginin!!
- 2 of haiduts favourite flavonoids!!! (Idealabs Melanon is of course Apigenin and Naringenin)

 

[rzero]

Haidut mentions here that flavones such as apigenin (in sage) are anti-estrogenic, but I often see them described as phytoestrogens.

Breast Cancer Survivors Who Use Estrogenic Botanical Supplements Have Lower Serum Estrogen Levels

Breast cancer survivors who use estrogenic botanical supplements have lower serum estrogen levels than non users The authors seem to agree that lower serum estrogen is correlated to lower breast cancer risk, but the part I found interesting is the ambiguity surrounding whether particular...

raypeatforum.com

Estrogenic activity of Sage (Salvia officinalis L.) aerial parts and its isolated ferulic acid in immature ovariectomized female rats

Common sage (Salvia officinalis L., Lamiaceae), a medicinal plant of Mediterranean origin, has been traditionally applied in cases of excessive sweati…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[ddjd]

View: https://twitter.com/CristinaDragani/status/1630576807832621056?t=TPNrBBwU2sUNqLD1TQQ_uA&s=19

 

[rzero]

But I'm glad you revived this thread. I had forgotten about it.

 

[ddjd]

But I'm glad you revived this thread. I had forgotten about it.

Appreciate your points as well but if sage is estrogenic why has it been used for centuries to decrease breast milk production? It's known to reduce lactation

 

[rzero]

Appreciate your points as well but if sage is estrogenic why has it been used for centuries to decrease breast milk production? It's known to reduce lactation

My point is it looks like it is NOT estrogenic, and that the classification as a phytoestrogen is dubious. The study was just a citation for the flavone content.

An idea mentioned by some before is that weaker plant estrogens block the stronger endogenous estrogen activity for a net decrease in estrogenic activity.

 

[redpanda]

Ive been experimenting with Sage tea recently. Originally i read that Sage can lower TGF-beta so i wanted to try it for helping against male pattern baldness.

But ive started noticing some strong anti estrogenic effects. I definitely have issues with estrogen and I am slightly overweight and often have a bloated stomach. If i drink sage tea, the bloat is noticably smaller to the point where people are commenting on it. The only other thing that had a similar effect like this was Exemestane - an irreversible aromatase inhibitor i.e. estrogen blocker.

I know peat and haidut generally suggest to be very careful with phytoestrogens but Sage is showing some very positive properites for me at least.

other benefits ive noticed:

- strong cognitive boost
- better focus
- relaxing effect suggesting some GABA- promoting properties
- more resilient in stressful situations

Usual estrogenic traits, at least for me, are weak bladder, bloating, palpitations, inability to handle stress, and sage tea is actually having the opposite effect.

some interesting articles i came across on sage (Salvia officinalis)

This article suggests Sage has anti-diabetic properties:
Bioactive Components of Salvia and Their Potential Antidiabetic Properties: A Review

Reduces Nitric Oxide synthesis / inflammation:

Effects of Salvia officinalis L. extract on experimental acute inflammation - PubMed

Salvia officinalis tincture had antiinflammatory effects by reducing marrow acute phase response and NO synthesis.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/285736864_Inhibitory_effect_of_Salvia_officinalis_on_the_inflammatory_cytokines_and_inducible_nitric_oxide_synthesis_in_murine_macrophage_RAW2647

ANTI-NEURODEGENERATIVE EFFECTS OF SAGE (SALVIA OFFICINALIS)

https://digital.library.txstate.edu/bitstream/handle/10877/6335/Brandon%20Jamison_Thesis%20Revision%2007-12-2012.pdf?isAllowed=y&sequence=1

sage is very high in phytomelatonin

 

[ddjd]

sage is very high in phytomelatonin

I don't know anything about phytomelatonin. Would it have a net positive or negative effect on sleep/ overall health??

Also interesting that sage has been used for centuries by women for post menopausal hot flashes.

As haidut mentioned " Hot flashes are cortisol/estrogen. Menopause can be reframed as simply an excess of estrogen/cortisol and not enough progesterone. There are case reports of postmenopausal women becoming of child-baring ability again after progesterone supplementation."


And to back up the mechanism this study here shows that sage increases progesterone and testosterone!


"150 and 200 μg/ml of Salvia significantly increased progesterone production

- Significant stimulation of testosterone release was recorded at 200; 250 and 300 μg/ml"

Investigation of the Properties and Effects of Salvia Officinalis L. on the Viability, Steroidogenesis and Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS) Production in TM3 Leydig Cells in Vitro

The aim of our study was to reveal the in vitro effects of Salvia officinalis L. (37.5, 75, 150, 200, 250, 300 and 600 μg/ml) extract on the TM3 Leydig cell viability, membrane integrity, steroidogenesis and reactive oxygen species production ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Dave Clark]

All this makes me think of how people are admonished from consuming things known to have estrogens, without really knowing if there are other components that are either balancing or negating the estrogenic effects. That's why I wonder if Peat often throws the baby out with the bathwater sometimes, just because it has some phytoestrogens or is an unsaturated molecule, etc. Definitely more science is needed to see whether just because something 'has' a compound in it, does it ultimately create the same effect as the singular compound. I think some of this falls into reductionist thinking.

 

[rzero]

All this makes me think of how people are admonished from consuming things known to have estrogens, without really knowing if there are other components that are either balancing or negating the estrogenic effects. That's why I wonder if Peat often throws the baby out with the bathwater sometimes, just because it has some phytoestrogens or is an unsaturated molecule, etc. Definitely more science is needed to see whether just because something 'has' a compound in it, does it ultimately create the same effect as the singular compound. I think some of this falls into reductionist thinking.

Or, like I mentioned, that the estrogens themselves are producing the net anti-estrogenic effect.

From what I understand, this is the logic around here with LSD and serotonin.

 

[redpanda]

I don't know anything about phytomelatonin. Would it have a net positive or negative effect on sleep/ overall health??

Also interesting that sage has been used for centuries by women for post menopausal hot flashes.

As haidut mentioned " Hot flashes are cortisol/estrogen. Menopause can be reframed as simply an excess of estrogen/cortisol and not enough progesterone. There are case reports of postmenopausal women becoming of child-baring ability again after progesterone supplementation."


And to back up the mechanism this study here shows that sage increases progesterone and testosterone!


"150 and 200 μg/ml of Salvia significantly increased progesterone production

- Significant stimulation of testosterone release was recorded at 200; 250 and 300 μg/ml"

Investigation of the Properties and Effects of Salvia Officinalis L. on the Viability, Steroidogenesis and Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS) Production in TM3 Leydig Cells in Vitro

The aim of our study was to reveal the in vitro effects of Salvia officinalis L. (37.5, 75, 150, 200, 250, 300 and 600 μg/ml) extract on the TM3 Leydig cell viability, membrane integrity, steroidogenesis and reactive oxygen species production ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

it's plant melatonin, and will benefit sleep and is anti-estrogenic