Dr. Eades has novel idea about why low-carb works, blows up CICO proponents

[cremes]

Here's the video of his talk given at the recent Low Carb conference held in Boca Raton.

His idea is that the whole concept of CICO needs a rethink because energy itself has no mass. The example given is that if you have a kilogram of nearly boiling water on a scale, it will weigh 1 kg. When it cools (no evaporation in this thought experiment!) then it still weighs 1kg. Yet the calories of the water have certainly reduced as the heat energy dissipated.

You don't need to watch the whole thing. Watching from the 18:30 mark to around 38:00 covers the meat of it, I think. Ultimately you get to the equation that shows we get 4 calories per gram for carbs and protein and 11 calories per gram for fat. When you invert that to look at weight, you see that you get 0.25 grams/kcal for carbs/protein and 0.11 grams/kcal for fat.

He theorizes that you lose weight on low carb simply because you are consuming less mass. He also shows the difference in mass for a LCHF vs LFHC meal and it works out to about 1/3 pound per day in mass difference.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting and worth sharing. It certainly demands a different perspective from the 1st Law of Thermodynamics purists.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mnhha9JfCM&t=1446s

 

[yerrag]

No one here knows what CICO means except you. Cut out with the abbreviations and do some typing please.

 

[Momma]

No one here knows what CICO means except you. Cut out with the abbreviations and do some typing please.

Calories In Calories Out

 

[yerrag]

Calories In Calories Out

Thanks. Should have said "not everybody" lol

Here's the video of his talk given at the recent Low Carb conference held in Boca Raton.

His idea is that the whole concept of CICO needs a rethink because energy itself has no mass. The example given is that if you have a kilogram of nearly boiling water on a scale, it will weigh 1 kg. When it cools (no evaporation in this thought experiment!) then it still weighs 1kg. Yet the calories of the water have certainly reduced as the heat energy dissipated.

You don't need to watch the whole thing. Watching from the 18:30 mark to around 38:00 covers the meat of it, I think. Ultimately you get to the equation that shows we get 4 calories per gram for carbs and protein and 11 calories per gram for fat. When you invert that to look at weight, you see that you get 0.25 grams/kcal for carbs/protein and 0.11 grams/kcal for fat.

He theorizes that you lose weight on low carb simply because you are consuming less mass. He also shows the difference in mass for a LCHF vs LFHC meal and it works out to about 1/3 pound per day in mass difference.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting and worth sharing. It certainly demands a different perspective from the 1st Law of Thermodynamics purists.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mnhha9JfCM&t=1446s

Thanks for sharing.

He presents a perspective that is unlike most. There is a quantitave aspect usually lost in debates between different kinds of diet.

I would agree that people on high fat diets would be eating less by weight compared to those eating high carb, but his pointing it out makes makes sense if the basis is the intake of equal calories. Still, people mostly eat to be sated. And if sated, they stop eating (with gluttons being a small minority). And since fats make us sated more than carbs, I would reckon that people on high fat would even be eating less calorie-wise than people on high carb.

Still, eating less calories on high fat doesn't really IMHO explain why people on kerosene diets lose weight.

it doesn't consider that many, if not most, have faulty sugar metabolism and don't realize it (by using HbA1c as a basis) and this cause them to accumulate fat and gain weight when on high carb.

But when on keto, these people not only eat less calorie-wise, but also have less carb intake to convert to fat, and are able to burn the fats they eat (more than they are able to burn the sugar they eat), and even use up muscle protein for energy when the muscles are converted to sugar (as the brain and red blood cells cannot use fat for energy).

What Eases neglect to mention is that CO2 is produced more by sugar metabolism, and not by fat metabolism, and that resorting to keto because sugar metabolism isn't optimal is not the solution, but just a lazy way around poor sugar metabolism.

As optimal sugar metabolism not only produces the most CO2 that can easily be breathed out to help lose weight, but it also produces the least keto acids and lactic acid, and is likely to put the body in a state of balance, such as acid base balance, and one result of this balance is the perpetuation of a virtuous cycle of optimal sugar metabolism.

 

[Cloudhands]

so by this logic, 5 lbs of ground beef should be less fattening than 10 lbs of watermelon?

 

[cremes]

so by this logic, 5 lbs of ground beef should be less fattening than 10 lbs of watermelon?

Hard to know. Recall that water itself has no caloric content. For beef I think water weight is about half. I have no idea what percentage of the weight is in water for a watermelon. If it's mostly water, then it could still be less overall mass since the water doesn't count in the equation and just passes through.

Did you watch the video? There's a meal example given towards the end.

 

[GTW]

Ketone bodies, hydroxybutyrate and acetoacetate, are not ketones but a small fraction are at any moment. On a ketogenic diet not enough to be mischaracterized as ketoacidosis. And ketone bodies do have anti-inflammatory effects.
Glucose is more toxic at common physiological/dietary concentrations as a reactive aldehyde.

 

[GTW]

You can fool yourself but not Nature. From an evolutionary perspective, fasting with energy derived from "ketones" (ketone bodies) is a major part of human species-typical diet. Adults have little or no net protein gain. Most dietary protein is lost. There is a flux of recycled/remodeled organ protein/peptides/amines but relatively little or no gain. "Ketones" are the preferred CNS energy source.
High glycemic foods were never part of species-typical diet.

 

[Ras]

No one here knows what CICO means except you. Cut out with the abbreviations and do some typing please.

You often seem to have a bad attitude.

 

[GTW]

More than 90% of endogenous ketone bodies come from fat, not amino acids. Don’t confuse with ketogenesis with gluconeogenesis.
The initial rise of ROS and pro-inflammatory mediators is followed by an adaptive cellular defense response which leads to prolonged upregulation of cell-protective activities including increased anti-oxidative and anti-inflammatory activity, cell repair, and regeneration mechanisms.In metabolic healthy persons, systemic concentrations of ketone bodies may reach 5–7 mmol/l, after prolonged fasting, or up to 5 mmol/l during a ketogenic diet (Table 1). However, the buffering power available during a healthy metabolic state is able to cope with such amounts of ketotic acids and a normal pH of the blood is maintained. Higher levels of circulating ketone bodies do not occur during starvation because fasting blood insulin levels remain in the low normal range which is sufficient to prevent an unrestricted increase of lipolysis. Ketone bodies: from enemy to friend and guardian angel - BMC Medicine

 

[yerrag]

You often seem to have a bad attitude.

I could say it in a nice way, for sure. But do you like walking into a room of strangers where people talk to you in abbreviations? What can you say about the attitude of people who talk in language that they aren't aware that people cannot understand? Nothing. They are not aware they're doing this. They needed to be reminded short of a slap.

Sorry to be the bad guy, and thank you for being the good guy.

 

[cremes]

I could say it in a nice way, for sure. But do you like walking into a room of strangers where people talk to you in abbreviations? What can you say about the attitude of people who talk in language that they aren't aware that people cannot understand? Nothing. They are not aware they're doing this. They needed to be reminded short of a slap.

C'mon, CICO has been in widespread use in health and diet for literally decades. Your favorite forum word is "biofilm." Do you plan to define it in every thread comment where you mention it?

Here, I'll teach a man to fish so to speak.

If you are viewing this in a web browser, in the upper right corner is a magnifying glass with the word "Search" next to it. Click it and in the resulting text box type "CICO" and hit return. You'll get 13 pages of results for this forum alone; clearly CICO isn't some obscure acronym. Alternately, next time you run into a word that confuses you try "google.com" and type it in there. Doing so for "CICO" gives millions of results and the first one contains a nice, concise definition of the word.

Please stop trying to derail the thread.

 

[Jessie]

When someone uses the acronym "CICO" in opposing fashion to "low-carb" it's pretty easy to catch on. If I just saw it randomly, out of context, I might be stumped. But with the way the title was written I thought it was pretty self explanatory.

But the doctor's argument is fundamentally flawed in my opinion. No one should be trying to lose weight. They should be trying to lose fat. Low carb diets make people skinny-fat. It's why even professional bodybuilders will only use carb restriction as a means to lose excess water before a show.

Once you lose that initial water weight from glycogen, your start preferentially burning lean mass from the high cortisol.

 

[yerrag]

C'mon, CICO has been in widespread use in health and diet for literally decades. Your favorite forum word is "biofilm." Do you plan to define it in every thread comment where you mention it?

Your use of a word to defend the use of what's not a word beats me. I am floored.

If you are viewing this in a web browser, in the upper right corner is a magnifying glass with the word "Search" next to it. Click it and in the resulting text box type "CICO" and hit return. You'll get 13 pages of results for this forum alone; clearly CICO isn't some obscure acronym. Alternately, next time you run into a word that confuses you try "google.com" and type it in there. Doing so for "CICO" gives millions of results and the first one contains a nice, concise definition of the word

Sure, that means you have the license to use every acronym you so deem necessary just because...

...you can search for its meaning in the internet. I am knocked out once again.

There are newbies here and even a member who's been long here who don't know CICO and what it means. You assume too much.

 

[yerrag]

When someone uses the acronym "CICO" in opposing fashion to "low-carb" it's pretty easy to catch on. If I just saw it randomly, out of context, I might be stumped. But with the way the title was written I thought it was pretty self explanatory.

I guess I'm dumb.

If I wrote FY, I guess you know what it means after my sarcastic retort. And everyone will.

 

[GTW]

When someone uses the acronym "CICO" in opposing fashion to "low-carb" it's pretty easy to catch on. If I just saw it randomly, out of context, I might be stumped. But with the way the title was written I thought it was pretty self explanatory.

But the doctor's argument is fundamentally flawed in my opinion. No one should be trying to lose weight. They should be trying to lose fat. Low carb diets make people skinny-fat. It's why even professional bodybuilders will only use carb restriction as a means to lose excess water before a show.

Once you lose that initial water weight from glycogen, your start preferentially burning lean mass from the high cortisol.

Are you also confusing catabolic gluconeogenisis from protein and ketogenisis from fat?

 

[Jessie]

Are you also confusing catabolic gluconeogenisis from protein and ketogenisis from fat?

Nope

 

[GTW]

Low carb diet will result in endogenous ketone bodies from fat, depot fat lipolysis.
Acute hypoglycemia usually sequel to hyperglycemia results in catabolic gluconeogenisis.

 

[GTW]

Lost the point in the gratuitous pissing match over an acronym. Or is it a demo of 'roid rage?

 

[yerrag]

Low carb diet will result in endogenous ketone bodies from fat, depot fat lipolysis.
Acute hypoglycemia usually sequel to hyperglycemia results in catabolic gluconeogenisis.

Agree with this summary.

Not easy for most to understand but once understood, by taking the time to understand it, relieves people of fad diets and merry-go-rounding with different experts.