Cooperation, And Not Competition, Is Our Thermodynamic Future

[Such_Saturation]

Very interesting thread. This gem of a post is hiding just below and very applicable.
Cooperation, Not Competition, Drives Evolution

This is also relevant and assures that I'm not "making this up". Acknowledging Selection At Sub-organismal Levels Resolves Controversy On Pro-cooperation Mechanisms

selection can operate on organismal and sub-organismal 'entities' such that partner fidelity feedback at sub-organismal level can appear as partner choice at organismal level.

 

[Queequeg]

I wish I was that creative. The true story tellers are the people that come up with big bangs and primordial soups and evolution to explain out existence.

The banal truth is that modern, intelligent, advanced human beings are millions of years old. Unfortunately for us, and the other unhabitants earth, we happen to live on a planet that regularly experiences extinction level events. These extinction level events are cyclical and driven by the motion of the planets above. Also sirius.

When they happen all civilizations are wiped out. Only a few survive, tasked with rebuilding humanity from the ashes. They pass down what they can, and mark the momentous occasion by hiding it in religion and myth, but ultimately we have to start from scratch.

In some of our prior instances we have had greater civilizations than we have today. Men were smarter, larger, and lived for hundreds of years. They had better engineering and science than we have today. They made spaceships and left the planet. They colonized mars and another planet that no longer exists. They had space wars. Mars was nuked barren. The other planet was destroyed.

Then Sirius came....

Evolution doesn't work like that. It doesn't stop.


we're not discussing game theory we're discussing the eventuality of worldwide cooperation due to punishment of defection. The point of my pointing out successful defection is to point out how naive that is



If I started I wouldn't be able to stop. Have you ever watched Indiana jones.

It's obvious that you have read a lot, and some of it may be have been true.

 

[Queequeg]

View attachment 5861

Ray seems to be having a hard time with that Red pill

 

[Such_Saturation]

Ray seems to be having a hard time with that Red pill

Definitely... opening a student run college in Mexico and getting shut down by the CIA, the guy really needs a dose of reality does he even own bitcoins

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

It's obvious that you have read a lot, and some of it may be have been true.

Jesus was one of these advanced extra-terrestrial human beings

 

[Xisca]

the TLDR for above is simply that anything called "competition" involves a lot of cooperation within it, as a football match you can describe as two teams competing could also be described as two pairs of 20 people cooperating.

Yes cooperation emerges IN a competitive environment BECAUSE it is more efficient than lone wolf agents. That's the point.

I love these sorts of summaries!

I would add that if all animals do the same, may be I have not found any other species than humans who compete among themselves instead of competing with another species....
Maybe, in a time I can only imagine, when humans were less, they did compete only with other species...

In the article, I like the introduction of the concept of punishment, usually forgotten, as emphasis is often too exclusively on reward! I always use both, it is the fondamental of learning systems.

I also liked they talk about the cheating problem: we earn more by cooperation, but when all cooperate, one that do not can earn more tan the rest!
And then the problem is that more and more will tempt this, until the cooperative system is destroyed. You can see this very well in any social program, when people profit too much of what should be urgency help. When you have no more interest in working, better live from social help sometimes... But stopping all social help....

 

[Queequeg]

Definitely... opening a student run college in Mexico and getting shut down by the CIA, the guy really needs a dose of reality does he even own bitcoins

Don't give me that look:) lol. I was referring only to the Red Pill that @pimpnamedraypeat is offering up. I am sure RP could Red Pill us all to another level.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Don't give me that look:) lol. I was referring only to the Red Pill that @pimpnamedraypeat is offering up. I am sure RP could Red Pill us all to another level.

Ray Peat prefers Ethereum

 

[Queequeg]

Jesus was one of these advanced extra-terrestrial human beings

Like I said you've been reading a lot.

 

[Queequeg]

Ray Peat prefers Ethereum

Actually it's cases and cases of powdered milk. Winter is coming.

 

[michael94]

Actually it's cases and cases of powdered milk. Winter is coming.

Could actually store a lot of wealth that way lol Camel Milk Powder | Camel Milk Powder 100% Raw & Natural

 

[Such_Saturation]

Actually in Mexico at that altitude he is above the nanomachine clouds...

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Like I said you've been reading a lot.

You have a flair for content-free posting

 

[Queequeg]

You have a flair for content-free posting

I think the content of my post was understood by most but if you need me to spell it out for you, not every BS story on the Internet is true. Jesus was not an extraterrestrial being.
"Oh mortal man, is there anything you cannot be made to believe?" Adam Weishaupt

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

I think the content of my post was understood by most but if you need me to spell it out for you, not every BS story on the Internet is true. Jesus was not an extraterrestrial being.
"Oh mortal man, is there anything you cannot be made to believe?" Adam Weishaupt

You call passive aggressive jibes content?

Jesus was seeded into Mary by highly advanced, extra-terrestrial human beings. It's the only logical explanation. Many great men of old come from so called virgin births. I think Alexander was one as well.

 

[Queequeg]

You call passive aggressive jibes content?

Jesus was seeded into Mary by highly advanced, extra-terrestrial human beings. It's the only logical explanation. Many great men of old come from so called virgin births. I think Alexander was one as well.

It was sarcastic, not passive-aggressive. And it is entirely appropriate to call BS on some of the stuff you come up with.

So allow me to be less passive.. Bull Sh*T. The Virgin Birth is a common mythos of all Son’s of Gods by definition. You can't have two human parents and still be considered a god after all. Other common features of these stories are being born in a cave, born on the Winter Solstice, stars signaling their birth, royal descent, death and resurrection etc. It has nothing to do with aliens, for Christ's sake.

And for believers, I am not saying that this proves that Jesus wasn't the Messiah but just that some embellishments were probably added to the Gospels, possibly to help gain converts from believers in other pagan Gods..

 

[Dessert_All_Day]

When everyone recognizes that personal best interest is same as other's best interest and viceversa, the meanings of competition and cooperation merge together. It is the whole that is now working for its own good.

Also, you can't deny that the direction of life as a whole is that of cooperation - as organisms become more complex (in terms of energy flow and metabolism) they also become more cooperative - just compare reptiles to mammals, or chimps to humans, and you'll understand what I mean. If better energy flow = more cooperation, then as organisms become more complex they will become more cooperative. If we think of a species as having 'ultimate complexity' (however that may take form), that species must also be the most cooperative.

Humans compete for scarce finite resources. If we both want the same plot of land, the highest bidder will get it. Sure, this can be framed as "cooperation" instead of competition since the entire transaction is governed by agreed upon principles of trade, property rights, etc. But economists have understood this for a long time. It sounds like we're just playing with semantics.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Humans compete for scarce finite resources. If we both want the same plot of land, the highest bidder will get it. Sure, this can be framed as "cooperation" instead of competition since the entire transaction is governed by agreed upon principles of trade, property rights, etc. But economists have understood this for a long time. It sounds like we're just playing with semantics.

That's about as clear as I can write it man, and I don't want to double post

 

[Dessert_All_Day]

That's about as clear as I can write it man, and I don't want to double post

Well I'm not convinced you know what you're talking about.

 

[x-ray peat]

Humans compete for scarce finite resources. If we both want the same plot of land, the highest bidder will get it. Sure, this can be framed as "cooperation" instead of competition since the entire transaction is governed by agreed upon principles of trade, property rights, etc. But economists have understood this for a long time. It sounds like we're just playing with semantics.

Ar e you sure you know what you are talking about? No economist would call two people bidding on a plot of land cooperation. Partnering up and buying the land together would be cooperation. There are no semantics involved.