British Airways Pilot 'Killed By Toxic Fumes'

[Marg]

From Wikipedia

Aerotoxic syndrome is a phrase coined by Chris Winder and Jean-Christophe Balouet in 2000, to describe their claims of short- and long-term ill-health effects caused by breathing airliner cabin air which was alleged to have been contaminated to toxic levels (exceeding known, parts per million, safe levels) with atomized engine oils or other chemicals. Repeated investigations of such claims have failed to document cabin air has ever contained contaminants which exceeded known safe levels. An assessment by the UK's House of Lords Science and Technology Committee found that claims of health effects were unsubstantiated. An update in 2008 found no significant new evidence. As of 2013 this syndrome is not recognized in medicine.

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I think that the airline industry, its contractors, and profiteers, will keep providing money and influence to refute the claims that airline crew and passengers are at risk. Many pilots and flight attendants have lost their jobs for speaking out.

Pilot Richard Westgate died:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk>article-2708365

 

[Westside PUFAs]

If it were true you'd see thousands of flight attendants and pilots getting sick and/or dying.

 

[Marg]

Please read the article where Boeing responds to the British Parliament that it's newer planes will eliminate the problem of bleed air fumes. The manufacturers, the airlines, and the oil companies have been aware of these problems for years and have done nothing about it and have done nothing to warn the passenger, or the crews.

www.toxiccabinair.com

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I don't need to read it to know that it's BS. Of course they can be exposed to toxins but everyone on the planet is exposed to toxins no matter what. The fact is there are thousands of flights every single day and have been for decades now and thousands of pilots and flight attendants. None of them are getting this and/or dying from this, other than the one pilot in your post.

 

[Herbie]

Just another mainstream media fear mongering article like most the rest of them great way to get the sympathetic nervous system going.

It comes down the air craft maintenance of engine oil and hydraulic oil leaks, If you were mechanically minded you would be more concerned at how much these engines and hydraulics are leaking fluid while keeping you in the air, can't pull over on a cloud and pop the hood and top the oil up.

There is no way that the aircraft engines are going to have oil pouring out of them and filling the cabins up, if so it would be fear and far between.

 

[Marg]

Read the article. Airline maintenance can't take care of the problem because the air intake valves on the plane were a bad design, because they are located in the same area as the engines, and the toxic gases from this combustion mix with the intake air that circulates in the plane. The air intake should be separated from toxic engine emissions. All current airliners in the fleet have this design flaw.

aerotoxic.org

Q. Are there solutions to stop fume events?
A. Yes, bleed air filtration – but it would cost money – most passengers say they would be content to pay extra for clean air.

Q. When will the issue be fixed?
A. By passengers complaining to the airlines and demanding clean air. Sign our petition demanding that Toxic Air Detectors (TADs) be fitted to all passenger jets.

Q. How can passengers complain?
A. By writing to the airline and by encouraging other passengers to do the same.

Q. Does the aviation industry know about the issue?
A. Yes. Boeing has a new jet design, the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, which can not have a fume event as it does not rely on air that has been bled off of the engines to supply the cabin with breathing air.


It will take a decade before those new jets comprise the airline fleet.

 

[Such_Saturation]

It's by design lol, you can't avoid it

 

[Queequeg]

I have always heard that flight air quality was terrible. Plus flight crews and pilots do have a higher rates of cancer though they always blame it on solar radiation.

 

[Milena]

I have always heard that flight air quality was terrible. Plus flight crews and pilots do have a higher rates of cancer though they always blame it on solar radiation.

It#a got worse since smoking was banned. Previously, they had to take in more air, now the air is much staler as they can save money. Comparing air quality from and through a few decades ago to now is not really valid.

 

[Queequeg]

It#a got worse since smoking was banned. Previously, they had to take in more air, now the air is much staler as they can save money. Comparing air quality from and through a few decades ago to now is not really valid.

not sure that I was comparing today's air to that of 30 years ago. do all cancers and diseases have a 30 year incubation period? interesting point about the reduced air quality after the smoking ban though.

 

[sladerunner69]

This is a non starter because one anecdotal report of a pilot dying does not indicate a problem

 

[Milena]

not sure that I was comparing today's air to that of 30 years ago. do all cancers and diseases have a 30 year incubation period? interesting point about the reduced air quality after the smoking ban though.

Sorry, I was meaning to allude to the assertion Westside PUFA made that there were thousands of flights over decades with no significant problems. An analogy (poor) would be there is no problem with any type of fat because we having be eating fat for millennia and ignoring recent changes in diet that may be a factor.Changes in cabin air management after the smoking ban may be a factor.

 

[Queequeg]

Sorry, I was meaning to allude to the assertion Westside PUFA made that there were thousands of flights over decades with no significant problems. An analogy (poor) would be there is no problem with any type of fat because we having be eating fat for millennia and ignoring recent changes in diet that may be a factor.Changes in cabin air management after the smoking ban may be a factor.

got it. not a bad analogy at all btw

 

[Such_Saturation]

Y'all dismiss this but I bet you avoid scanners and ask for patdowns

 

[Herbie]

Why does the cabin air get contaminated?
In order to have a comfortable environment and sufficient air pressure to breathe at the altitudes at which jet airliners fly, a supply of warm compressed air is required.
This is nowadays (with the sole exception of the new Boeing 787) supplied direct from the jet engines and is known as ‘bleed air‘. It is mixed inside the aircraft with recirculated cabin air at a ratio of 50/50. Although some of the air is subsequently recirculated, all of the air originates from the jet engines.

Bleed air comes from the compressor section of the jet engine, which has to be lubricated. Jet engines mostly have “wet seals” to keep the oil and air apart, which cannot be 100% effective. Furthermore these seals, like any mechanical component, slowly wear out and their effectiveness gradually declines. This wear can occur more rapidly when the engine is working hard, such as climbing under full throttle. They may also fail suddenly and will then let a significant amount of oil into the very hot compressed bleed air, resulting in fumes and/or smoke entering the cabin. This is known as a “fume event”.

This is what I'm saying, its going to be negligible levels of fluid/oil contamination getting in the air. Its just been hyped up a bit. They can't be leaking that bad because there would be component failure which causes catastrophic engine failure and they need to get hot air from somewhere as its freezing in high altitude.

Of course the seals wear out over time and sometimes leak but that would be taken care of with sufficient maintenance. If they had photos of the air lines covered in a film of oil then that would be proof but they don't show anything.

I can see how a career of being inside these jets would be a stress to the system but I don't think it can be pinpointed down to oil vapour. The lifestyle of a pilot with poor circadian cycles, poor access to good food could be more stressful.

Ive done some flying and never stiffed a hint of oil, I think the fume events are still few and far between I don't think it killed that Pilot it was an accumulation of many stressors.

To put things into perspective, if your sitting in your car in traffic the air coming in the cabin will have exhaust fumes of carbon monoxide and if its ethanol fuel then aldehydes as well and if your engine is leaking oil which most do and the air being sucked into the cabin comes from behind the engine then there could be oil fumes coming in too. The car exhausts coming out of the engine are 600 degrees celsius and the leaking engine oil drips down onto the exhaust and vaporises and this is just in front of the driver.

Thats the problem with todays world, the whole system is held up by stuff that is toxic to us but if every industry stopped today and rectified every little thing the world would collapse into chaos.

There are so many aircraft in the sky at any one time that if they had to land all of them that there wouldn't be enough room.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Ive done some flying and never stiffed a hint of oil

I did

 

[Herbie]

I did

I must have been sitting too close to the toilets.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I must have been sitting too close to the toilets.

We should get twins to take a long flight, one with a gas mask for oil vapor.

 

[Queequeg]

Why does the cabin air get contaminated?
In order to have a comfortable environment and sufficient air pressure to breathe at the altitudes at which jet airliners fly, a supply of warm compressed air is required.
This is nowadays (with the sole exception of the new Boeing 787) supplied direct from the jet engines and is known as ‘bleed air‘. It is mixed inside the aircraft with recirculated cabin air at a ratio of 50/50. Although some of the air is subsequently recirculated, all of the air originates from the jet engines.

Bleed air comes from the compressor section of the jet engine, which has to be lubricated. Jet engines mostly have “wet seals” to keep the oil and air apart, which cannot be 100% effective. Furthermore these seals, like any mechanical component, slowly wear out and their effectiveness gradually declines. This wear can occur more rapidly when the engine is working hard, such as climbing under full throttle. They may also fail suddenly and will then let a significant amount of oil into the very hot compressed bleed air, resulting in fumes and/or smoke entering the cabin. This is known as a “fume event”.

This is what I'm saying, its going to be negligible levels of fluid/oil contamination getting in the air. Its just been hyped up a bit. They can't be leaking that bad because there would be component failure which causes catastrophic engine failure and they need to get hot air from somewhere as its freezing in high altitude.

Of course the seals wear out over time and sometimes leak but that would be taken care of with sufficient maintenance. If they had photos of the air lines covered in a film of oil then that would be proof but they don't show anything.

I can see how a career of being inside these jets would be a stress to the system but I don't think it can be pinpointed down to oil vapour. The lifestyle of a pilot with poor circadian cycles, poor access to good food could be more stressful.

Ive done some flying and never stiffed a hint of oil, I think the fume events are still few and far between I don't think it killed that Pilot it was an accumulation of many stressors.

To put things into perspective, if your sitting in your car in traffic the air coming in the cabin will have exhaust fumes of carbon monoxide and if its ethanol fuel then aldehydes as well and if your engine is leaking oil which most do and the air being sucked into the cabin comes from behind the engine then there could be oil fumes coming in too. The car exhausts coming out of the engine are 600 degrees celsius and the leaking engine oil drips down onto the exhaust and vaporises and this is just in front of the driver.

Thats the problem with todays world, the whole system is held up by stuff that is toxic to us but if every industry stopped today and rectified every little thing the world would collapse into chaos.

There are so many aircraft in the sky at any one time that if they had to land all of them that there wouldn't be enough room.

A lot of these carcinogenic hydrocarbons in lubricating and hydraulic oils have toxic effects at the PPM levels well below their threshold of detection and many are odorless. You don't need a visible leak in the compressor or a noticeable smell in the cabin to have contaminated air at toxic levels. If you smell chemicals while airborne I would think something is not right and you probably have full blown bearing failure in the compressor or some other engine issue. I have only smelled anything while sitting at the gate because the engine intake is sucking in exhaust fumes or fumes are passing through the cabin wall because the plane isn't pressurized. This is always noticeable if you sit near the engine.

Yes sitting in car traffic and breathing in fumes also isn't good for you. People who live within a mile of the highway have a lot more health issues than those who don't and I would bet that cab drivers and truckers also have similar problems. But just because we are surrounded by toxins I don't think that means we should just ignore them. I would think a better idea is to be aware of the major sources of toxic chemicals and make rational decisions on how to best limit your exposure. Some examples would be don't live by the highway and when in traffic put the air on recirculate. I also wouldn't want to be a flight attendant or a pilot. The body if healthy can take care of what you cant avoid but why not limit its work as much as you can.