Bitcoin as opt out money, defensive technology.

[tankasnowgod]

Most of those, yes, had no idea. But most people today are in the same boat, they don't realise where bitcoin is going. Hal Finney calculated $10,000,000 per coin in Jan 2009!!! Still 200x from here, but I think it will go further. But yes, probably not 10,000-100,000x, but you never know.

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Uh, that sounds like a sort of max out value IF it becomes the "dominant payment system throughout the world."

Excellent reasoning in 2009 to spend a few cents on computing power to generate 50 BTC a block. Certainly not enough reason to spend $48,000 per coin today.

 

[nattywaffle]

Bitcoin tech is not fixed, it has massive software development behind it, see github

But it essentially is, any improvements (ie lightning) have to be incorporated off chain; and the block size will always be a major limitation even with lightning which is more like a band aide than anything.

Bitcoins lightning network is actually private

This is not true, while it is more private than typical on chain transactions (which aren't very private at all), you are still at the complete mercy of the nodes which the transaction is being run through.

 

[TurboTime]

Bitcoins lightning network is actually private

No, it's not.

You can't scale blockchains to global size

Yes, you can.

monero's software development is healthy

Yes, it is.

they could change the monetary policy could they not?

No, not without creating another coin.

 

[Herbie]

There are many services where you can now automatically convert your pay into bitcoin. Bitcoin has been the best way to save money compared to any other asset in the last 10 years.

One of the primary uses for bitcoin is to beat money printing/inflation, this is the direct cause of prices of goods and services increasing overtime, which is a bigger problem for the poor than the rich as they have no assets and live on their cash savings. This causes wealth inequality over time and thus the current situation we find ourselves in today with more disgruntled populations rioting. Inflation has always been a problem in the poorer countries, but now it has come to the wealthy western countries.

What is the point of keeping your pay in USD, EUR or whatever, when you get barely any or negative interest on it in the bank, where as with bitcoin you have been getting 70% per year.

Makes sense but I am poor and spend everything I earn.

 

[nigma]

Uh, that sounds like a sort of max out value IF it becomes the "dominant payment system throughout the world."

Excellent reasoning in 2009 to spend a few cents on computing power to generate 50 BTC a block. Certainly not enough reason to spend $48,000 per coin today.

Depends on perspective yes. I think bitcoin is cheap at $48,000. This is how a free market works, everyone can buy at what price makes sense to them. Unfortunately many wait for bitcoin to go down to what they think it's worth and it never goes back down to those levels.

 

[nigma]

But it essentially is, any improvements (ie lightning) have to be incorporated off chain; and the block size will always be a major limitation even with lightning which is more like a band aide than anything.


This is not true, while it is more private than typical on chain transactions (which aren't very private at all), you are still at the complete mercy of the nodes which the transaction is being run through.

Satoshi said a blockchain couldnt scale, lightning is not a bandaid, it was always imagined to be needed.

 

[nigma]

No, it's not.


Yes, you can.


Yes, it is.


No, not without creating another coin.

You cant scale blockchains to global population level and retain decentralization. Each of the 7 billion nodes would need the worlds best computer and the worlds best internet connection.

 

[nigma]

Makes sense but I am poor and spend everything I earn.

That's a difficult situation, but if you can make it possible, some is better than none.

 

[rothko]

Well, that's silly. 1 ounce of silver = 1 ounce of silver, and 1 Zimbabwe Dollar = 1 Zimbabwe Dollar, and that can't be changed by anyone, either.

.... you dont understand economics do you...

 

[rothko]

But..... it still relies on centralized exchanges for price discovery. So, essentially, it can be diluted in a similar way to stocks. If someone buys 1 BTC, holds it on Coinbase, and never takes it off of Coinbase.... did Coinbase hold 1 BTC in that person's name the whole time?

This is just called a market. It just means there is enough liquidity for there to be accurate pricing. This has nothing to due with 'dilution'. And your money in the bank isnt there, just because they are leveraging your money, doesnt mean it isnt real or something

 

[nattywaffle]

Satoshi said a blockchain couldnt scale, lightning is not a bandaid, it was always imagined to be needed.

Look I hate to break it to you, but Satoshi was not the best developer from a pure coding perspective. A project with better scalability from the start is undeniable, but would not have the first mover and network effect that BTC has.

 

[tankasnowgod]

.... you dont understand economics do you...

Puh-lease. You know EXACTLY what that comment was made in response to.

However, I am not familiar with any economic philosophy that states "The only currency that is allowed to establish a value by comparing a unit of itself to another unit of itself is Bitcoin." If you are familiar with such a philosophy, please share, although I'm guessing it would be pretty recent itself.

 

[tankasnowgod]

This is just called a market. It just means there is enough liquidity for there to be accurate pricing. This has nothing to due with 'dilution'. And your money in the bank isnt there, just because they are leveraging your money, doesnt mean it isnt real or something

But if the number of Bitcoin that exchanges are selling is "leveraged," it doesn't show up on the blockchain, by definition.

In other words, if Coinbase only holds 1,000 Bitcoin, but sells 10,000, that transaction can't show up on any block explorer. Because they didn't have full amount of Bitcoin to begin with. Those transactions only show up when they are moved off centralized exchanges. So, if they can't aquire those 9,000 Bitcoin, they won't have anything to offer those customers when they try to pull them off the centralized exchange.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Depends on perspective yes. I think bitcoin is cheap at $48,000. This is how a free market works, everyone can buy at what price makes sense to them. Unfortunately many wait for bitcoin to go down to what they think it's worth and it never goes back down to those levels.

Then wouldn't it have been a much bigger ganga just last month, when it was around $30,000? I mean, that was over 50% off from the all time high of $63,000, set in May!

One thing I've noticed is that "Buy Low, Sell High" is the classic investment advice, and it would work every time, if people could figure it out. But most people love to "Buy High," because everyone else is doing it, and "Sell Low," for the exact same reason.

 

[nigma]

I

Then wouldn't it have been a much bigger ganga just last month, when it was around $30,000? I mean, that was over 50% off from the all time high of $63,000, set in May!

One thing I've noticed is that "Buy Low, Sell High" is the classic investment advice, and it would work every time, if people could figure it out. But most people love to "Buy High," because everyone else is doing it, and "Sell Low," for the exact same reason.

I bought at $50,000, then bought again when it dropped to $30,000. I don't sell, I only buy. Trading bitcoin is unwise.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I bought at $50,000, then bought again when it dropped to $30,000. I don't sell, I only buy. Trading bitcoin is unwise.

Soooo, is your plan just to buy forever, never sell, never spend?

 

[nigma]

Soooo, is your plan just to buy forever, never sell, never spend?

Most of it will probably go to my descendants yes. But I may have to spend a portion of it run into hard times. Ideally I would get a loan with the bitcoin as collateral, as one can already do. That way I never have to sell, but can still buy things with it.

 

[rothko]

However, I am not familiar with any economic philosophy that states "The only currency that is allowed to establish a value by comparing a unit of itself to another unit of itself is Bitcoin." If you are familiar with such a philosophy, please share, although I'm guessing it would be pretty recent itself.

Its about supply. One is one, is tautology. In the case of OP, hes just referring to a limited supply.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Most of it will probably go to my descendants yes. But I may have to spend a portion of it run into hard times. Ideally I would get a loan with the bitcoin as collateral, as one can already do. That way I never have to sell, but can still buy things with it.

Fair enough. I've just become less convinced, over time, that Bitcoin is going to be stable, long term store of value. I don't think it's "Gold 2.0."

All your private key is is an integer between 1 and 10 to the 77th power. Obviously, that is a huge amount of numbers. It's protected by cryptography, and "trap door" equations apparently help to keep it secret when signing transactions. I read an article a few years ago that suggested if someone wanted to "brute force" your private key, it would take on the order of 3 centuries to accomplish, assuming it isn't easily found (eg, your private key is the number "1," or you generated it using popular song lyrics, like "Billie Jean is not my lover"). The conclusion was that it is more profitable to use that computer power to mine Bitcoin.

However....... tech isn't stable. The time to "brute force" an address has likely come down (though likely still centuries), and mining rewards dwindle, by design. It may have several decades left before this becomes an issue....... but how do we know? Will "Bitcoin" be a 30 year thing, and then come crashing down when some entity suddenly starts sucking every bitcoin out of the every wallet with a balance? Or will a fair superior system swoop in, and render Bitcoin moot?

 

[tankasnowgod]

Its about supply. One is one, is tautology. In the case of OP, hes just referring to a limited supply.

Yeah, duh. Silver has a limited supply, too, if you haven't noticed.

42 Coin has an even more limited supply than Bitcoin. There's only 42!

42-coin Official Website

Official Website of 42-coin

42-coin.org