Are Greens/socialism Behind Lockdown Hysteria?

[Drareg]

This is an interesting article, worth a read, I must say I found throughout this lockdown the gloating of the climate hysteria brigade nauseating, I think the current green front as many know already is political socialism of sort or communitarianism ,whatever it is or not we do know it’s delusional and more mental illness/incoherency by their behavior.

There is and has been a sincere green movement before it was hijacked by the thunbergs ,green peace,extinction rebellion and the like, they were not fascists or mentally ill, it was a reasonable argument.

Lockdown Sceptics – Stay sane. Protect the economy. Save livelihoods.


"There’s a lot more detail on Neil Ferguson and his mistress in today’s papers. If you Google Antonia Staats it brings up her LinkedIn account, which describes her as a “senior activist/campaigner” with Avaaz, although her LinkedIn profile is no longer available. According to Wikipedia, Avaaz is a US-based charity that was launched in January 2007 and promotes global activism on issues such as climate change, human rights, animal rights, corruption, poverty and conflict. During the 2008 Canadian election campaign, the then environment minister John Baird called Avaaz a “shadowy foreign organisation” and said it was funded by George Soros.
This will be grist to the mill of those conspiracy theorists who believe that many of the scientific experts advising governments during this crisis – not just here, but around the world – are linked to activists and campaigning groups with a green agenda and are deliberately exaggerating the risks posed by the virus to persuade politicians to inflect needless acts of economic self-harm. Their object, according to this theory, is to destroy capitalism. And in case you’re wondering exactly what they’d like to see in its place, over 200 “artists and scientists”, including Madonna, Robert De Niro and several Nobel Prize winners, signed a letter to Le Monde this morning demanding that the world not “return to normal” and urging us all to stop “the pursuit of consumerism” and instead try and bring about “social equity”. Sounds a lot like socialism to me – and we all know how that ends"

 

[LUH 3417]

I don’t know any greens or socialists making bank on the soaring stock market. Do you

 

[Drareg]

I don’t know any greens or socialists making bank on the soaring stock market. Do you

I don’t know any greens or socialists making bank on the soaring stock market. Do you

Im not sure what you mean exactly ?

Mr green Al Gore inherited oil fields from his father, most of the green fascist brigade are upper middle income and elite types.

 

[LUH 3417]

Im not sure what you mean exactly ?

Mr green Al Gore inherited oil fields from his father, most of the green fascist brigade are upper middle income and elite types.

I agree with you on that point. I just don’t think your everyday socialist CSA member is in on it. Green energy is definitely a scam, but one perpetuated by those in power. That was mostly my point.
Just like how the liberal progressive type is so quick to become the authoritarian executing stay at home orders and mask wearing on teenagers innocently hanging out at parks. And the right wing fascists are the ones fighting for freedom and the right to work. Ironic.

 

[LUH 3417]

“The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants” - Camus

 

[Drareg]

I agree with you on that point. I just don’t think your everyday socialist CSA member is in on it. Green energy is definitely a scam, but one perpetuated by those in power. That was mostly my point.
Just like how the liberal progressive type is so quick to become the authoritarian executing stay at home orders and mask wearing on teenagers innocently hanging out at parks. And the right wing fascists are the ones fighting for freedom and the right to work. Ironic.

It’s bizarre but I must admit to been spooked by the amount of people who are biologically in the “peaty sense" inclined to authoritarianism, I knew they were there but not in this amount.
When the true context arouse people took their side they were inclined to, I get what your saying, their self labels are only really tested when the real world context arouse.

I was finding it hard to label people with political leanings ,it’s a chameleon these days, I now know the context will show their spots very quick after this.
My labeling of greens right now is more to do with its celebrity cult leanings used by those in power, rather than define the personas individually to the average joe I’m just saying "all greens" knowing some involved are probably ok people but it’s getting out of hand and it’s better they are stopped.

All these movements be it greens, right wing fascists ,socialists etc are been hijacked easily in their current hysterical states by the likes of Russia,China and Israel stirring the pot for their own gain in the west,don’t forget the banks also ,they love this carnage.

 

[Drareg]

“The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants” - Camus

When will people get it , they are crying out for universal basic income here in Europe and bailouts for all businesses because the banks and big corporate groups got one, we are capitalist when wining then socialism when loosing , the snake eats its tail with this process.

 

[michael94]

When will people get it , they are crying out for universal basic income here in Europe and bailouts for all businesses because the banks and big corporate groups got one, we are capitalist when wining then socialism when loosing , the snake eats its tail with this process.

Well,I used to think UBI was a talking point for leeches. Recently I am more sympathetic to UBI since becoming aware of how Banks control the flow of money at it's inception ( not just as intermediaries ). So I don't really think of UBI as wealth redistribution to the lazy so much as helping to even the playing field for those not in the Financial or Real Estate Market. But we need actual reforms, like HR 2990 for example.

(quick overview on 2nd page )
https://www.monetary.org/images/pdfs/HR-2990.pdf

 

[michael94]

And the right wing fascists are the ones fighting for freedom and the right to work. Ironic.

The right wing protesting the lockdown probably leans libertarian if anything

 

[Regina]

It’s bizarre but I must admit to been spooked by the amount of people who are biologically in the “peaty sense" inclined to authoritarianism, I knew they were there but not in this amount.
When the true context arouse people took their side they were inclined to, I get what your saying, their self labels are only really tested when the real world context arouse.

I was finding it hard to label people with political leanings ,it’s a chameleon these days, I now know the context will show their spots very quick after this.
My labeling of greens right now is more to do with its celebrity cult leanings used by those in power, rather than define the personas individually to the average joe I’m just saying "all greens" knowing some involved are probably ok people but it’s getting out of hand and it’s better they are stopped.

All these movements be it greens, right wing fascists ,socialists etc are been hijacked easily in their current hysterical states by the likes of Russia,China and Israel stirring the pot for their own gain in the west,don’t forget the banks also ,they love this carnage.

In aikido, we would say, it all comes out on the mat. With some people, who are super softy in daily life persona (work for a non-prof researching food security for blah blah blah), it can be like "whoa!!!" They are super nasty on the mat and it comes out in a blink of your eye.
That's kinda how I found my way to Peat. I was wondering why is that? Incredibly schizoid with cover persona dripping empathy yet this dark viscious person is there too. I was glad to learn that some people have a damaged serotonin system. Then you can see it morph right before your eyes and comprehend it. The article Haidut posted about the gentle solitidinous grasshopper morphs into ravenous rapacious locust through increased serotonin under stress.

 

[Regina]

While always good, this Ice Age Farmer gives a spectacular overview of what's happening (warp speed) with our food.

 

[Drareg]

Well,I used to think UBI was a talking point for leeches. Recently I am more sympathetic to UBI since becoming aware of how Banks control the flow of money at it's inception ( not just as intermediaries ). So I don't really think of UBI as wealth redistribution to the lazy so much as helping to even the playing field for those not in the Financial or Real Estate Market. But we need actual reforms, like HR 2990 for example.

(quick overview on 2nd page )
https://www.monetary.org/images/pdfs/HR-2990.pdf

UBI doesn’t mean that to the current leaders though, it’s like crypto currency ,decentralized is a great idea but our leaders want it centralized.
UBI will not allow any wealth to be garnered by individuals and with time they will be made jump through hoops to receive it.
They are talking 1200 euro per month in Europe , the market will adjust prices for this also to suck that money out of their pockets.

It’s the central banks that need to be reeled in ,they big banks on wall street were also pumping the shutdown narrative ,they were failing again, their first bailout of sorts was in September 2019, JP Morgan. The covid 19 shutdown allows the justification for trillions in bailouts and wasn’t the corrupt toxic financial systems fault it was the invisible enemy covid 19.
So many cartels had so much to gain by hiding behind covid 19 from climate hysterics, banks, governments and the friends of Jeffrey Epstein society, don’t forget big pharma and academia, the "scientific experts", China,Russia,Israel.

 

[Drareg]

While always good, this Ice Age Farmer gives a spectacular overview of what's happening (warp speed) with our food.

That lab grown meat is disaster waiting to happen, it’s like soylent, over time nobody will suspect it was the cause of ill health , the tissue has the context of a lab to develop in, it will be possibly be sky high in estrogen because of this, natural cow tissue has the context of an open field and is structured accordingly , look how bad cow meat is that is grown in awful conditions.

Peat spoke about the amino acid carbon skeletons with no ammonia waste, they are interesting IMO.

 

[michael94]

UBI doesn’t mean that to the current leaders though, it’s like crypto currency ,decentralized is a great idea but our leaders want it centralized.
UBI will not allow any wealth to be garnered by individuals and with time they will be made jump through hoops to receive it.
They are talking 1200 euro per month in Europe , the market will adjust prices for this also to suck that money out of their pockets.

It’s the central banks that need to be reeled in ,they big banks on wall street were also pumping the shutdown narrative ,they were failing again, their first bailout of sorts was in September 2019, JP Morgan. The covid 19 shutdown allows the justification for trillions in bailouts and wasn’t the corrupt toxic financial systems fault it was the invisible enemy covid 19.
So many cartels had so much to gain by hiding behind covid 19 from climate hysterics, banks, governments and the friends of Jeffrey Epstein society, don’t forget big pharma and academia, the "scientific experts", China,Russia,Israel.

Banks don't even need to be reeled in so much as simply stopped from making new money. Private Bank account balances are a promise to pay that Banks can create at will. This causes a lot of problems.

 

[Drareg]

Banks don't even need to be reeled in so much as simply stopped from making new money. Private Bank account balances are a promise to pay that Banks can create at will. This causes a lot of problems.

It’s the biggest cause yet people are oblivious to it, some are loving time off right now with government payments, what they don’t get is that in a more coherent financial system they would have more wealth relative to their work output and could look at more time off on their terms once wealth is accumulated.
The new culture is filled with escapism , alcohol, cannabis and TV , none of this is seen as unhealthy, it’s a cultural goal and doesn’t require much to achieve.

 

[Energizer]

This is an interesting article, worth a read, I must say I found throughout this lockdown the gloating of the climate hysteria brigade nauseating, I think the current green front as many know already is political socialism of sort or communitarianism ,whatever it is or not we do know it’s delusional and more mental illness/incoherency by their behavior.

There is and has been a sincere green movement before it was hijacked by the thunbergs ,green peace,extinction rebellion and the like, they were not fascists or mentally ill, it was a reasonable argument.

Lockdown Sceptics – Stay sane. Protect the economy. Save livelihoods.


"There’s a lot more detail on Neil Ferguson and his mistress in today’s papers. If you Google Antonia Staats it brings up her LinkedIn account, which describes her as a “senior activist/campaigner” with Avaaz, although her LinkedIn profile is no longer available. According to Wikipedia, Avaaz is a US-based charity that was launched in January 2007 and promotes global activism on issues such as climate change, human rights, animal rights, corruption, poverty and conflict. During the 2008 Canadian election campaign, the then environment minister John Baird called Avaaz a “shadowy foreign organisation” and said it was funded by George Soros.
This will be grist to the mill of those conspiracy theorists who believe that many of the scientific experts advising governments during this crisis – not just here, but around the world – are linked to activists and campaigning groups with a green agenda and are deliberately exaggerating the risks posed by the virus to persuade politicians to inflect needless acts of economic self-harm. Their object, according to this theory, is to destroy capitalism. And in case you’re wondering exactly what they’d like to see in its place, over 200 “artists and scientists”, including Madonna, Robert De Niro and several Nobel Prize winners, signed a letter to Le Monde this morning demanding that the world not “return to normal” and urging us all to stop “the pursuit of consumerism” and instead try and bring about “social equity”. Sounds a lot like socialism to me – and we all know how that ends"

There's a lot of shadowy figures that pretend to be socialist or communist in order to exploit people and the US gov't spends billions astroturfing the internet and TV channels and radio networks and universities with anti-communism propaganda think tanks, NGOS, academics, news agencies, etc. I think the fear-mongers are coming from the capitalists like Bill and Melinda Gates and the other business people in bed with the WHO/CDC who stand to gain the most from people locked down and panicked and the vaccines that will sell handsomely off that fear. These types are only interested in maximizing capital gains (for them, a dollar sign means more than human life and human wellbeing). On the contrary, these elites are actively interested in suppressing socialism and the idea of communism (which implies a stateless-classless society, aka anarcho-communism). The relative freedom of these philosophies put in threatens the hegemony of the ruling class, so they spin anti-communist propaganda. The CIA has played an active role for decades in suppressing all political philosophies that threaten th e power of the fascist technocratic American Empire. Who's really behind the lockdown hysteria? Chiefly, Patrick Wood argues, The Technocrats:

 

[Drareg]

There's a lot of shadowy figures that pretend to be socialist or communist in order to exploit people and the US gov't spends billions astroturfing the internet and TV channels and radio networks and universities with anti-communism propaganda think tanks, NGOS, academics, news agencies, etc. I think the fear-mongers are coming from the capitalists like Bill and Melinda Gates and the other business people in bed with the WHO/CDC who stand to gain the most from people locked down and panicked and the vaccines that will sell handsomely off that fear. These types are only interested in maximizing capital gains (for them, a dollar sign means more than human life and human wellbeing). On the contrary, these elites are actively interested in suppressing socialism and the idea of communism (which implies a stateless-classless society, aka anarcho-communism). The relative freedom of these philosophies put in threatens the hegemony of the ruling class, so they spin anti-communist propaganda. The CIA has played an active role for decades in suppressing all political philosophies that threaten th e power of the fascist technocratic American Empire. Who's really behind the lockdown hysteria? Chiefly, Patrick Wood argues, The Technocrats:

Yes I agree, this is why we need to legislate against NGO’s, they are propaganda outlets.
They also justify excessive immigration under the guise of it being a humanitarian cause, useful idiots working within in the NGO’s play along, well paid useful idiots also helps a lot. It’s basically a way to access the cheap labor and lower wages in 1st world countries ,it’s been going on for centuries this tactic.

 

[Jessie]

I guess it depends on what you mean by socialism. Before things became exceedingly toxic after 2016, I actually wrote a great deal of stuff regarding political theory, libertarian philosophy/ethics, anarchism, economics, etc. and from my own experience most people who refer to themselves as "socialists" are not really socialists.

Organizations like the green party, Bernie Sanders, A.O.C, etc. are just using the title socialism as a PR booster for radical leftists. It sounds much better if people think of them as "democratic socialists" rather then what they really are, which is welfare-capitalists. There's a famous right-wing podcaster (Michael Malice) that is famously quoted saying "conservatism is progressivism going the speed limit."

You could literally invert this quote and it would perfectly describe most of the "socialists" here in America. That being American socialism is just "neoliberalism breaking the speed limit." My opinion is most of the outspoken voices—whether pro or anti lockdown—are typically just some form of liberalism.

There is some exceptions, such as the rent strike movement that occurred during the lockdown. But it wasn't really headline news, and after the protesting and riots started people all but forgot about it. I think there's a huge disconnect between real socialism, and what both conservatives and liberals perceive to be socialism, particularly here in the west. Which can be dangerous, especially when people start supporting something they know very little about.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Yep, the terms are messed up. Especially Americans hardly ever used the term „socialism“ or „socualist“ in its correct sense.

The political and ideological spectra are shattered into myriads by now, better to shortly explain who is meant or what aspect of the policies are meant when discussing political movements or phenomena

 

[Energizer]

I guess it depends on what you mean by socialism. Before things became exceedingly toxic after 2016, I actually wrote a great deal of stuff regarding political theory, libertarian philosophy/ethics, anarchism, economics, etc. and from my own experience most people who refer to themselves as "socialists" are not really socialists.

Organizations like the green party, Bernie Sanders, A.O.C, etc. are just using the title socialism as a PR booster for radical leftists. It sounds much better if people think of them as "democratic socialists" rather then what they really are, which is welfare-capitalists. There's a famous right-wing podcaster (Michael Malice) that is famously quoted saying "conservatism is progressivism going the speed limit."

You could literally invert this quote and it would perfectly describe most of the "socialists" here in America. That being American socialism is just "neoliberalism breaking the speed limit." My opinion is most of the outspoken voices—whether pro or anti lockdown—are typically just some form of liberalism.

There is some exceptions, such as the rent strike movement that occurred during the lockdown. But it wasn't really headline news, and after the protesting and riots started people all but forgot about it. I think there's a huge disconnect between real socialism, and what both conservatives and liberals perceive to be socialism, particularly here in the west. Which can be dangerous, especially when people start supporting something they know very little about.

Yeah I think I've probably just added to the confusion by throwing the term around. I use it in the sense of promoting the idea of workers taking and having control over their workplaces. I believe that the capitalist system of private ownership and wage-labour dehumanizes and alienates the people who work for large corporations, big businesses, etc., since selling your labor tends to turn you into just as much of a commodity as what you produce.

I also support the idea of a society without a state or class divisions. I think this chiefly can be worked towards in two ways (although there may be more): 1) organization of the working class to overthrow the ruling class (various political parties and movements that support this notion) with the majority group that historically been oppressed (the 99%) taking over the 1% in the aim of eventually transitioning to a stateless society without hierarchy 2) gradually opting out of and making obsolete archaic institutions (sci-hub is a prominent example of this), in practice, we might call this "agorism" as defined by Samuel Edward Konkin. Various ways to subvert state authority.

Personally I think Sanders and A.O.C are not full socialists even if they support some socialist ideas although they could potentially institute measures to reform the system in some small way, largely they would do nothing. The so-called "Democratic" system in place is designed to protect the interests of the rich no matter which candidate is voted in. If you look at countries which historically have had a desperate struggle between feudal lords owning the majority of the land and the working poor which at times, cannot even feed themselves or their families (and have to go on continuous hunger strikes), it becomes more apparent what the primary goal of most socialist movements are. In socialist countries with a state government the state price fixes certain goods to protect the farmers and working class from greedy sellers that would monopolize the market and price-gouge a certain good. In a centrally planned economy this becomes more apparent as to who this benefits, chiefly the majority who would otherwise pay exorbitant prices for all manner of goods.

Yes I agree, this is why we need to legislate against NGO’s, they are propaganda outlets.
They also justify excessive immigration under the guise of it being a humanitarian cause, useful idiots working within in the NGO’s play along, well paid useful idiots also helps a lot. It’s basically a way to access the cheap labor and lower wages in 1st world countries ,it’s been going on for centuries this tactic.

Ask yourself why do immigrants cross the border in the first place? The majority of the time it is because their country has been devastated by endless wars and global capitalism. The majority of the time immigrants are looking for the opportunity to support their families and themselves. The solution to that problem, imo, is not to try to militarize the border to prevent immigrants from coming to America, which is largely ineffective in any case (there will always be workarounds). The militarization of the border could be better spent on many other things. The Socialist Party makes some good points here, imo:

Don't militarize the US-Mexico border; freely cross instead
The Socialist Party works to build a world in which everyone will be able to freely move across borders, to visit and to live wherever they choose. We recognize the central role global capitalism plays in forcing the immigration of people from the less developed to the more industrialized countries, often leading to further economic and social injustice.

• We oppose the militarization of the United States/Mexican border, and an increase in the service budget instead of the "military" budget of the INS.
• We defend the rights of all immigrants to education, health care, and full civil and legal rights and call for an unconditional amnesty program for all undocumented people. We oppose the imposition of any fees on those receiving amnesty.
• We oppose "guest worker" programs.
• We call for full citizenship rights upon demonstrating residency for six months.

Making it easier for immigrants to gain full citizenship and provide resources for them will help them integrate into society better and instead of doing cheap farm labor under the table they should have more options.