Women Over 35 Hormonal Changes, Are You Doing Anything?

[scarlettsmum]

I haven't been for awhile with all the stress before Xmas, so I'm sorry if I didn't respond or thanked to those that answered my posts.

I have been thinking about my anxiety I haven't managed to resolve. It kind of depresses me and makes me feel powerless. I have noticed that as soon as my ovulation is over the anxiety and adrenal surges show up and make me miserable. Ever since the birth of my second child I also had change in my periods where now they are lasting only 3 days, but then I have long drawn out spotting over period of 10 days or so, which is really annoying. As I'm now 36 years old, I wonder if this could be a symptom of low progesterone and whether this is the time to start on progesterone? I have been looking up a book by John Lee, premenopause for women 30-50, and I seem to remember that he got his info from RP? Is this correct?
Up until recently I thought that thyroid would be the answer, but I get high pulse from tyromix and I'm not sure if it's the thyroid or dmso. And I can't get thyroid by prescription and is illegal in my country. I'm doing carrot, liver, milk, chicken neck soup, red light as I'm trying to correct things by food/light rather than supplements besides aspirin and occasional charcoal. I gave up on cypro as it made me extremely irritable.

Any women over 35, how are you coping with hormonal changes? What books/guidance do you use?

 

[Regina]

I haven't been for awhile with all the stress before Xmas, so I'm sorry if I didn't respond or thanked to those that answered my posts.

I have been thinking about my anxiety I haven't managed to resolve. It kind of depresses me and makes me feel powerless. I have noticed that as soon as my ovulation is over the anxiety and adrenal surges show up and make me miserable. Ever since the birth of my second child I also had change in my periods where now they are lasting only 3 days, but then I have long drawn out spotting over period of 10 days or so, which is really annoying. As I'm now 36 years old, I wonder if this could be a symptom of low progesterone and whether this is the time to start on progesterone? I have been looking up a book by John Lee, premenopause for women 30-50, and I seem to remember that he got his info from RP? Is this correct?
Up until recently I thought that thyroid would be the answer, but I get high pulse from tyromix and I'm not sure if it's the thyroid or dmso. And I can't get thyroid by prescription and is illegal in my country. I'm doing carrot, liver, milk, chicken neck soup, red light as I'm trying to correct things by food/light rather than supplements besides aspirin and occasional charcoal. I gave up on cypro as it made me extremely irritable.

Any women over 35, how are you coping with hormonal changes? What books/guidance do you use?

My desert island supplements would probably pregnenolone and androsterone.

 

[InChristAlone]

I would definitely recommend trying out progesterone. My adrenaline surges and anxiety didn't show up until I got my post partum menstrual cycle back almost 2.5 yrs ago, I am 31.5 yrs old. Progesterone definitely helps me, I'm still afraid of using anymore than a few mg yet but many do to overcome these issues. I tried going off it for a couple months and all my symptoms came back. I still get adrenaline surges, but they are mostly solved by keeping blood sugar stable, and using a small amount of cypro. Supposedly low progesterone makes our set point for low blood sugar higher so adrenaline kick in even when it appears theres enough sugar. Light factors in to low progesterone, there needs to be light to make it. I've been doing a few minutes with my UVB lamp every few days, and that helps. Speaking of have to go do that! Soooo glooomy.

 

[scarlettsmum]

I would definitely recommend trying out progesterone. My adrenaline surges and anxiety didn't show up until I got my post partum menstrual cycle back almost 2.5 yrs ago, I am 31.5 yrs old. Progesterone definitely helps me, I'm still afraid of using anymore than a few mg yet but many do to overcome these issues. I tried going off it for a couple months and all my symptoms came back. I still get adrenaline surges, but they are mostly solved by keeping blood sugar stable, and using a small amount of cypro. Supposedly low progesterone makes our set point for low blood sugar higher so adrenaline kick in even when it appears theres enough sugar. Light factors in to low progesterone, there needs to be light to make it. I've been doing a few minutes with my UVB lamp every few days, and that helps. Speaking of have to go do that! Soooo glooomy.

Thanks Janelle! I don't know why I have been holding back using progesterone, seems like an obvious thing to me now. I'm not sure I understood you why you are afraid to go higher with the dose ? And why did you stop initially? So you need UVB light to make it? I only have red light, never heard of UVB. Where do you get it? And if you supplement progesterone do you still need the light? Sorry I have so many questions! It's 1:34 am here and I can't sleep, my heart is racing on and off and I have episodes of resisting sleep by startling myself as soon as I feel sleep coming on, so annoying! It's couple of days after ovulation and my mood is bad and anxiety sky high.

 

[InChristAlone]

Thanks Janelle! I don't know why I have been holding back using progesterone, seems like an obvious thing to me now. I'm not sure I understood you why you are afraid to go higher with the dose ? And why did you stop initially? So you need UVB light to make it? I only have red light, never heard of UVB. Where do you get it? And if you supplement progesterone do you still need the light? Sorry I have so many questions! It's 1:34 am here and I can't sleep, my heart is racing on and off and I have episodes of resisting sleep by startling myself as soon as I feel sleep coming on, so annoying! It's couple of days after ovulation and my mood is bad and anxiety sky high.

Sometimes when I take it I feel my heart pound more, so I was always cautious. Like last night my heart was calm then I took my dose before going to sleep and my heart started pounding. I don't know why that is.

The UV is not Peaty, he would say red light, I use it mainly for vitamin D in the winter, its just like the lamps in the tanning beds. I would say we can try to mimick what our own body would produce but I've always tried to get my body to produce it naturally. But that line of thinking had me believing I didn't need it anymore! Then I had a major panic attack during ovulation. So I quit coffee and it was a huge shock to my system and I was having panic attacks every other day for a month. Its been getting better every month since and I went back on the progesterone once I realized it wasn't helping me any by not taking it. I'd rather a pounding heart than high anxiety!

 

[800mRepeats]

@Regina curious about your experiences with androsterone - How is it benefitting you? Any downside?

I'm not quite menopausal; soon, I think. Have tried pansterone and wind up breaking out on a dose of just 1 drop per day.
I'd be interested in improved athletic recovery and lowering estrogen.

 

[800mRepeats]

@scarlettsmum I use Haidut's progesterone occasionally for localised pain and healing (applying a drop or two to sore spots, injuries, acne zits).

I want to like pregnenolone, but haven't noticed much if any effect (positively or negatively).

 

[Regina]

@Regina curious about your experiences with androsterone - How is it benefitting you? Any downside?

I'm not quite menopausal; soon, I think. Have tried pansterone and wind up breaking out on a dose of just 1 drop per day.
I'd be interested in improved athletic recovery and lowering estrogen.

I also love Pansterone. 4 drops per day - early in the day. It makes you break out? Like acne??

There has been so many changes in me lately that I don't really have up's and down's or feelings of frazzled edges. It's more steady-state. But I do stack supplements so I don't know how much of a model citizen I am. I'm experimental!
I don't really think of athletic recovery even as I did only a couple of months ago. I feel great after aikido--very energized. But I am otherwise quite slothful. Just walk my dog or sit at my computer.

Honestly, I throw so much stuff at lowering estrogen, cortisol, it's any wonder that I can't really even detect any effect from adding Pansterone.

But I do know that both pregnenolone and androsterone were game-changes. Both make me chill, calm and clear. I'm not at all de-personalized. I am stammering less and less inhibited to speak. But at the same time, I don't give a rat's **** what anyone thinks or their judgement of me. I just am and it's all good. Very comfortable and empathic but connected to myself. Disambiguated. Detached from outcome. No nattering. I still suffer from not being able to just go to sleep at night though. But the need to get up to pee has reduced probably 90%.
So first thing I did was 45mg vitamin K2 with Kuinone daily for about 3 months. Boom! That was HUGE re-set for me. Allowed me to drop a lot of worry and neurosis on the mat (aikido). My body felt a zillion times better and I dropped my worry about getting injured. I could really let go and finally learn how to take big falls and techniques to the point of loving the receiving side.
From there, I focused on estrogen with Estroban, progesterone. I also took Lapodin, aspirin, niacinamide, Energin, magnesium, caffeine pills, taurine, glycine, collagen peptides, sometimes BCAA's n tyrosine, sometimes added E with TocoVit, lysine, theanine, cascara sagrada capsules, oj, sugary/salty milk.
At some point, I added androsterone. Yum. Felt great on 2 drops.
I bought 100mg pregnenolone capsules and love them. Originally 1 a day and then when training hard, I took another when I got home. But I've cut back recently. Now I have Pansterone. So, 100mg pregnenolone plus 4 drops pansterone.
I added metergoline for fun. Yay!
I added oxidal for more fun. Yay!
Oh, and I added TyroMix and have some tyronene (which I haven't tried). I'm just "eye-balling" it with my pulse. I no longer need to take thyroid to keep pulse near 85.
But when it drops, I give myself a drop of tyromix.
I never really experienced a menopause. Period seemed to just stop coming but pregnenolone seems to have brought it back. (???)
The on-set of winter here had my pulse suddenly drop. I dosed tyromix more heavily a couple of weeks ago, but the problem seems to have resolved and I don't need to dose regularly. Hopefully, my body is improving at oxidative metabolism. Keeping fingers crossed.
I still could improve my C02 levels. I still huff-n-puff on the mat. I need to devote more time to buteyko breathing.

I think you can't go wrong with EstroBan and Energin.

 

[scarlettsmum]

Sometimes when I take it I feel my heart pound more, so I was always cautious. Like last night my heart was calm then I took my dose before going to sleep and my heart started pounding. I don't know why that is.

The UV is not Peaty, he would say red light, I use it mainly for vitamin D in the winter, its just like the lamps in the tanning beds. I would say we can try to mimick what our own body would produce but I've always tried to get my body to produce it naturally. But that line of thinking had me believing I didn't need it anymore! Then I had a major panic attack during ovulation. So I quit coffee and it was a huge shock to my system and I was having panic attacks every other day for a month. Its been getting better every month since and I went back on the progesterone once I realized it wasn't helping me any by not taking it. I'd rather a pounding heart than high anxiety!

How interesting about progesterone causing heart pounding for you. I wonder why that is. It's also fascinating to read such different experiences, such as @Regina story. Clearly some of us are very responsive to supplements without many side effects and others react to pretty much everything. If I didn't react, I too would experiment more, however, even Energin wrecks havoc as it lowers my blood sugar and adds to anxiety, same for coffee, etc. Also I remembered why I haven't tried progesterone yet. One side of my neck is thicker where my thyroid is located and I was asked to have it checked first. I still haven't done it, my GP felt for it, couldn't feel anything in particular but sent me off for an ultrasound. Now I regret not going although I don't think it is related to my thyroid.

 

[scarlettsmum]

@scarlettsmum I use Haidut's progesterone occasionally for localised pain and healing (applying a drop or two to sore spots, injuries, acne zits).

I want to like pregnenolone, but haven't noticed much if any effect (positively or negatively).

Thanks, I'm considering either Haidut's or Progest E.

 

[800mRepeats]

@Regina Thank you for the great write-up! IdeaLabs is like a fun house

I've found I have to watch the cortisol-lowering - I've zombified myself several times and have tried to ride it out hoping for better days. Too much vitamin E, and I can hardly muster out of bed.

I'd like to do the K2 liver restoration soon. Last time I tried it, Kuinone wasn't out yet, so was using Thorne. A fresh bottle of not-yellow Kuinone awaits in my cupboard ...

And, yes, 1 drop of Pansterone for 3-4 days has consistently led to an acne flare-up. Still working on other issues that could be at play, leaving me "sensitive."

 

[shepherdgirl]

@scarlettsmum - i second @Janelle525 's mention of keeping the blood sugar stable. In my experience, what is interpreted as "stress" most definitely involves adrenaline. For me it is so easy to forget to have some oj/sugar and protein every 2 or 3 hours! And enough salt also helps to stabilize blood sugar. It seems especially important if i wake up in the middle of the night to have sugar (and a little fat), otherwise my adrenaline will spike. But when i keep sugar up throughout the day and night i feel much calmer- the liver glycogen stays high. Recently i have experimented with making a gelatin pudding with lowfat milk, casein, sugar and salt, and so far it seems very helpful for sleep (not exactly the tastiest pudding, but not bad!) It is generally difficult for me to eat enough before bed, but this pudding is packed with protein for its small volume.

 

[Regina]

@scarlettsmum - i second @Janelle525 's mention of keeping the blood sugar stable. In my experience, what is interpreted as "stress" most definitely involves adrenaline. For me it is so easy to forget to have some oj/sugar and protein every 2 or 3 hours! And enough salt also helps to stabilize blood sugar. It seems especially important if i wake up in the middle of the night to have sugar (and a little fat), otherwise my adrenaline will spike. But when i keep sugar up throughout the day and night i feel much calmer- the liver glycogen stays high. Recently i have experimented with making a gelatin pudding with lowfat milk, casein, sugar and salt, and so far it seems very helpful for sleep (not exactly the tastiest pudding, but not bad!) It is generally difficult for me to eat enough before bed, but this pudding is packed with protein for its small volume.

the pudding sounds great. I'll try that tomorrow night.

 

[scarlettsmum]

@Janelle525 I was thinking about your heart beating fast when taking progesterone and was reviewing the page www.progesteronetherapy.com that someone kindly mentioned on the forum and found this: (copy and paste)
It says that not taking enough exacerbate the problem, that one needs to take enough for symptoms to go away. Similarly Benedicte says to take multiple doses as needed 20 mins apart until symptoms stop. So I wonder if perhaps you are not taking enough?

Women
The number of instructions given, the apparent complications of using it, and the misinformation, has caused many hundreds of women to abandon using it.

The main consideration above all else is use enough to reverse any adverse symptoms.

Too little and it merely exacerbates them.

The amount to use is not dependant on a given 'dose' or on size, weight, height or sex, but on symptoms.

The typical 20-40mg/day that is recommended does not raise levels to that found in the luteal phase. One study found that using 40mg/day...

"...only low plasma progesterone levels were found (median 2.5 nmol/l)"


The ranges for the luteal phase are 15.9 - 63.6 nmol/L (5 to 20 ng/ml). Men secrete <3.18 nmol/L (<1 ng/ml). For more information see Hormone Testing.

For general use and to reverse mild symptoms 100-200mg/day progesterone is needed. If severe problems are experienced 400-500mg/day are needed.

Once symptoms have passed the amount should be reduced very slowly, until the optimum is found.



It's essential to reduce over a few weeks
to prevent adverse symptoms returning.


It should be used a minimum of twice a day as levels begin dropping after about 13 hours. But in severe cases, application can be hourly.

When first starting progesterone it can disrupt the cycle. Periods can be either earlier or later than normal. This is nothing to be concerned about, the normal cycle length will assert itself within a few cycles.

If spotting only occurs, continue using the progesterone until bleeding starts.

If a full period occurs stop using the progesterone, and begin it again 12-14 days before the next period. For further explanation on this see under Normal Cycle Lengths below.

Bleeding can be heavier in the first few cycles, also nothing to be concerned about. This is old lining which has not been shed previously.

- See more at: How to use progesterone cream

 

[scarlettsmum]

@scarlettsmum - i second @Janelle525 's mention of keeping the blood sugar stable. In my experience, what is interpreted as "stress" most definitely involves adrenaline. For me it is so easy to forget to have some oj/sugar and protein every 2 or 3 hours! And enough salt also helps to stabilize blood sugar. It seems especially important if i wake up in the middle of the night to have sugar (and a little fat), otherwise my adrenaline will spike. But when i keep sugar up throughout the day and night i feel much calmer- the liver glycogen stays high. Recently i have experimented with making a gelatin pudding with lowfat milk, casein, sugar and salt, and so far it seems very helpful for sleep (not exactly the tastiest pudding, but not bad!) It is generally difficult for me to eat enough before bed, but this pudding is packed with protein for its small volume.

yes, I'm still working on that, but sometimes no matter what I do I get overwhelmed by adrenaline and it makes it worse, since my stomach is so tight that I can't eat or drink.

 

[shepherdgirl]

I've read that niacinamide, caffeine, and coffee can sometimes exacerbate stress issues. I was trying to take niacinamide and aspirin with coffee and i would crash, so i cut that out temporarily. Are you getting enough magnesium? Also fat solubles(A, D, E, K) and Bs. Red light and CO2 baths can be relaxing.

 

[scarlettsmum]

I do

I've read that niacinamide, caffeine, and coffee can sometimes exacerbate stress issues. I was trying to take niacinamide and aspirin with coffee and i would crash, so i cut that out temporarily. Are you getting enough magnesium? Also fat solubles(A, D, E, K) and Bs. Red light and CO2 baths can be relaxing.

I don't drink coffee, it immediately triggers anxiety. Anything stimulating even cocoa sometimes is too much. I do Epsom salt baths 2x per week and eat creamed spinach cooked to death once per week. I eat chicken liver regularly and juice oranges, chicken neck stock, so am trying to get in nutrients through food. Usually isolated supplements don't do much or give me side effects, such as crashing after energin, etc. Aspirin works for me if taken with food, so does charcoal. Also vitamin D and K never gave me any trouble but then again I didn't feel any effects either. Probably took too little. Seems the cheapest most accessible things work for me. I do use high quality red light as well as SAD light, 10.000 lux, not sure if this is actually good or not, but it makes my mood more elevated.

 

[shepherdgirl]

It seems like you are doing all that you can. Maybe it just takes a while to turn it around. It took a long time before my sleep improved. Have you read this thread on Katharina Dalton's philosophy? Here is a quote from that page that emphasizes the need to eat at regular intervals:

"It takes at least seven days before the benefit of frequent eating is appreciated, and unfortunately, if there are long gaps between eating and snacking it will take up to seven days to recover. ... I does not matter if you don't eat every hour or two as ling as you don't wait longer than three hours."

 

[InChristAlone]

Yeah I have thought of trying to do more to overcome this. Thing is Peat says if large amounts are needed then look into a protein deficiency or hypothyroidism. Also the creams seem to need larger amounts than the fully saturated vitamin E oil progesterone. He said we would not need the large amounts like in the creams.

I just had a pretty good cycle 27 days long, I took one or two drops before bed. I generally was eating better through the day instead of being riddled with adrenaline that makes me lose my appetite. I did notice a bit more blood sugar drops in the couple days before my menses though. But I just get something sugary and go do something while it passes.

One thing about adrenaline.. it has a short half life, in 5 mins it should be almost completely gone, but in people with anxiety it just keeps getting released which overall puts the nervous system on high alert. I have found that yes we need to boost progesterone and eat regularly but it won't stop our minds from brewing. If I get in a loop of anxiety it can take hrs to return to my normal self. I've learned to break the chain before that happens. Letting the adrenaline just pass. Occupy the mind with something enjoyable. Because for those sensitized to adrenaline we get scared at the first sign of it coming and more and more adrenaline gets released! It's a terrible feedback loop. Claire Weeks books are helpful for this. I know how hard it is to ignore the adrenaline induced thoughts though!!! Just knowing that it always passes the more I accept the situation is comforting. The only reason it wouldn't pass is if we keep feeding it. Or if there is a serious thyroid problem like graves disease. In that case beta blockers are needed! Progesterone helps calm the mind for sure though. But even in the beginning of my cycle when progesterone is low I don't feel crazy, so I just think at certain times we are prone to BG drops and shots of adrenaline and for those nervous of the sensations can cause anxiety.

 

[scarlettsmum]

It seems like you are doing all that you can. Maybe it just takes a while to turn it around. It took a long time before my sleep improved. Have you read this thread on Katharina Dalton's philosophy? Here is a quote from that page that emphasizes the need to eat at regular intervals:

"It takes at least seven days before the benefit of frequent eating is appreciated, and unfortunately, if there are long gaps between eating and snacking it will take up to seven days to recover. ... I does not matter if you don't eat every hour or two as ling as you don't wait longer than three hours."

Thanks so much for this, that's the first time I came across this post. More and more it seems to me that things really are so simple and accessible to all but we reject them on the basis of it being too simple. It makes a lot of sense. I certainly feel far hungrier and most of the time compared to my hubby and feel embarrassed about it. Hungry again? I will certainly monitor it better to make sure I eat in between meals and not skip. I would sometimes just ignore my feeling of hunger because I didn't think it was possible to be hungry again so soon. I will now make sure to have 3 snacks per day as well as 3 meals whilst making sure I'm not overeating.