Unpopular Opinion: I Think Some Of Ray's Ideas Are Just Not Helpful And Actually Make Matters Worse

[Ritchie]

...

 

[Constatine]

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Ray Peat. His advice is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physiology most of his advice will go over a typical reader's head. People who dislike Ray Peat truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Ray's existential catchphrase "perceive, think act," which itself is a cryptic reference to his own infallibility. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Ray Peat's genius brilliance unfolds itself on their computer screens. What fools.. how I pity them.

And yes, by the way, i DO have a Ray Peat tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid

I think we need a like post feature. I'm seriously just amazed you fit that in here.

Also at this point I'm sure this thread is a form of entertainment for many of us. Netflix or Raypeatforum?

 

[schultz]

I’m going to save you guys the trouble of argueing.

The ideal human diet:

-fruit

-safe tubers and roots depending on individual tolerability

-saturated/ monounsaturated fats: coconut oil, cocoa butter, beef tallow, butter

-seafood

-meats

-dairy depending on tolerability

We are descedants of primates (animals that eat close to a 70% fruit diet), that evolved to eat meat, seafood, tubers and dairy. All other foods are sub par from multiple angles and perspectives. If you disagree you have a high serotonin personality...

I am not saying we are exactly like orangutans (they don't hunt buffalo for example............... though apparently they will occasionally eat slow lorises and bird eggs) but it is interesting that when fruit is highly available they will consume fruit as 100% of their diet. Estimated caloric intake in January? 8422 calories per day. All from fruit, which means it's over 2000g of carbs. I imagine that's quite a bit of calcium, especially if they are eating figs. 3,700 calories of figs (a fruit which many primates rely on) gives 1750 mg of calcium, and a 2.5 : 1 calcium/phosphorus ratio.

Generally, I think animals eat whatever the heck they can find so they don't die. Don't judge the orangutan for eating 40% of its diet as bark in May, you'd do the same thing!

 

[schultz]

Lots of aggressive, high serotonin types in this thread. Probably from all the starch y'all have been eating

Also at this point I'm sure this thread is a form of entertainment for many of us. Netflix or Raypeatforum?

How dare you, sir!

(okay I admit it...)

 

[Peater Piper]

It's getting tiresome folks. A lack of understanding, half-**** reading things, and overall not having a full enough grasp on the things that Peat says himself.

This all started because someone said that a purist Peat diet wouldn't include starch. You proceeded to attack them with incorrect information. Here's what Peat has to say:

"When a non-starchy fruit is available I think it’s always preferable to starch. Alkali-processed corn is the only kind that I’m willing to eat, and seldom that (e.g., corundas made with wood ashes)."

"There isn't anything wrong with a high carbohydrate diet, and even a high starch diet isn't necessarily incompatible with good health, but when better foods are available they should be used instead of starches."

Sure sounds like in an ideal situation, Peat recommends NO starch. You had no grounds to your argument, yet you decided to pick apart the person's argument.

He has never said "no starch." In fact he has actually said he thinks a person should eat as much sugar and starch as possible.
In context, his caution with starch is such that first, if somebody has poor digestion or is very hypothyroid, he is bringing to your attention the potential issues with starch. Secondly, even in approaching starch, one still needs to understand prep and cooking in order to make it safe and more nutritious. None of that equates to "no starch."

You left out the caveat that Peat immediately followed up "should eat as much sugar and starch" with "preferably sugars from fruit and milk." And the quotes I supplied above can very much equate to "no starch."

The point is, someone else said something that was factually correct concerning an ideal Peat diet. You got into semantics, trying to argue that Peat supports starch while not including the fact that he really only supports it in healthy people who don't have access to better options (you very much made it seem like proper preparation in a healthy person makes starch just as adequate as fruit, and if you didn't mean that, you should have said so, don't get upset people can't read your mind). You moved the goalposts from what Peat considers ideal to what he might recommend in certain situations, and for what reason? To make you feel like you understand Peat better than everyone else?

It's baffling to me that someone suggesting fruit and milk are the staples of a Peat diet with limited (or no) starch and meat is such a contentious issue. It doesn't mean people can't deviate, can't follow many of Peat's other principles while eating the foods that agree with them, but yet we still want to pick people apart for suggesting that Peat actually recommends certain foods, and there is indeed a basic template for an ideal Peat diet.

 

[Cirion]

Lots of aggressive, high serotonin types in this thread. Probably from all the starch y'all have been eating
)

I like my starch lately, but me personally, I'm just here for popcorn and the comments

 

[tankasnowgod]

And yes, by the way, i DO have a Ray Peat tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid

IQ is a flawed metric. Just make sure their basal temperature is at least 98.2 degrees Fahrenheit upon waking.

 

[InChristAlone]

I picked my husband based on intelligence (he was also attractive). I saw him debating on myspace and wanted to be his friend based on what he was saying. Then we hit it off. He was clearly very smart. Thank God because I'm a stay at home Mom and he needed to be the bread winner.

 

[schultz]

I like my starch lately, but me personally, I'm just here for popcorn and the comments

I was just teasing. I eat starch as well.

 

[nad]

I appreciate you sharing your story. I made a lot of mistakes too but there’s value in trying even if in hindsight we misjudged. Seven years later from my lowest point I can say things have finally significantly improved. No one made me do anything though so placing blame for my decisions on anyone but myself would be wrong. I can see where a lot of things I did were probably not the best for me at the time but I was going on what seemed to make the most sense with the information I had available. I think that’s the best we can do in this confusing world we live in. If I could go back and do only one thing differently it would be to trust my own instincts more.

 

[nad]

P.S Who knew that if you really super dose on Progesterone and drink SUGARY lemonade with collagen/gelatin in it ..... it will kill your appetite. Not that you want to - but thats what it did for me. I am in love with Progesterone and Sugar and Lemons as a combo. I feel bad because I have not cracked the code on orange juice yet, it really bothers my stomach and give me cold sores, but lemonade? all day long. ( use a glass straw to protect teeth. )

Thank you, very helpful, I'm still afraid of really big dose. And how to get like teaspoon at once? Even 10-15 drops to rub in gums, under the tongue fills to much and messy, should I rub longer, or divide in few minutes? And could this dose cause nausea, like I have today after taking about 10 big drops on gums at 6 a.m., then at 8 a.m., then 10 a.m., and a half teaspoon topically on my yesterday pinched nerve on my back? Back is better but heart not, and nausea.

 

[danishispsychic]

have you tried mixing with coconut oil and and putting on topically on other " membrane " parts of the body? when i put mine on the gums, i only do like 10 drops at a time or so, i dont even rub it in on my gums, i just put it on there and let it dissolve. I use a product called Simply Progesterone . not sure what is causing the nausea, maybe try drinking something sugary with it when you take it orally?

 

[nad]

have you tried mixing with coconut oil and and putting on topically on other " membrane " parts of the body? when i put mine on the gums, i only do like 10 drops at a time or so, i dont even rub it in on my gums, i just put it on there and let it dissolve. I use a product called Simply Progesterone . not sure what is causing the nausea, maybe try drinking something sugary with it when you take it orally?

Thanks, that what I did , honey water with lemon & ginger. Helped!
I use olive oil. Not just b/c ''Ray said so'', but b/c CO known to clog pores and probably can mess w/absorption if it's not the MCT.
Also I email RP about my problems, he asked which Progesterone I use. I told him - Simply Progesterone, Molecular Progesterone complex in MCT & vE from Forefronthealth, and now I start Ona's Progesterone. He respond about the last one:
''The description of ingredients on their website doesn’t make sense, it seems they don’t have any idea what they are selling. I suspect that you might feel better without the supplements. ''
I love it - twice chipper, not so sticky, not so bitter like from healthnatura, .Then he add:''The only progesterone product I’m familiar with is Progest-E Complex, from Kenogen. It doesn’t contain any extraneous material.''
So now I got this one from Long natural health, soo sticky!, but also not bitter. 'Membranes' you mean genitals and vagina?(I hope we also, like guys here, can use the ''details'')
When you mention breast changing like an indicator I assume you're younger, do you use it like cycling? Because I'm not taking brake. Maybe I shouldn't even start at all with Progesterone because I'm too old for it!? Never found answer for this... Hormones very tricky

 

[Constatine]

I picked my husband based on intelligence (he was also attractive). I saw him debating on myspace and wanted to be his friend based on what he was saying. Then we hit it off. He was clearly very smart. Thank God because I'm a stay at home Mom and he needed to be the bread winner.

The most important internet debate of his life.

 

[jb116]

This all started because someone said that a purist Peat diet wouldn't include starch. You proceeded to attack them with incorrect information. Here's what Peat has to say:

"When a non-starchy fruit is available I think it’s always preferable to starch. Alkali-processed corn is the only kind that I’m willing to eat, and seldom that (e.g., corundas made with wood ashes)."

"There isn't anything wrong with a high carbohydrate diet, and even a high starch diet isn't necessarily incompatible with good health, but when better foods are available they should be used instead of starches."

Sure sounds like in an ideal situation, Peat recommends NO starch. You had no grounds to your argument, yet you decided to pick apart the person's argument.


You left out the caveat that Peat immediately followed up "should eat as much sugar and starch" with "preferably sugars from fruit and milk." And the quotes I supplied above can very much equate to "no starch."

The point is, someone else said something that was factually correct concerning an ideal Peat diet. You got into semantics, trying to argue that Peat supports starch while not including the fact that he really only supports it in healthy people who don't have access to better options (you very much made it seem like proper preparation in a healthy person makes starch just as adequate as fruit, and if you didn't mean that, you should have said so, don't get upset people can't read your mind). You moved the goalposts from what Peat considers ideal to what he might recommend in certain situations, and for what reason? To make you feel like you understand Peat better than everyone else?

It's baffling to me that someone suggesting fruit and milk are the staples of a Peat diet with limited (or no) starch and meat is such a contentious issue. It doesn't mean people can't deviate, can't follow many of Peat's other principles while eating the foods that agree with them, but yet we still want to pick people apart for suggesting that Peat actually recommends certain foods, and there is indeed a basic template for an ideal Peat diet.

A purist Peat diet could include starch, conditionally.

You confuse what Peat himself prefers to eat personally and as a general over-arching philosophy versus what, when and how you can eat it. You posted two quotes AGAIN about starch that only reinforce that. How in the world are you missing that!? Starch not preferable to sugar. Starch however along with sugar as carbohydrates are both fair game, knowing the how and when to eat them. Read those quotes you posted and think about it. He is NOT saying "NO starch" he is saying preference of sugar over starch. His qualifying statement of "...even a high starch diet isn't necessarily incompatible with good health..." and "...should eat as much sugar and starch..." settles that debate. It signifies that starch is not off bounds. You'd never hear him equate PUFA intentionally as something he would CONDITIONALLY or in any case say to eat (other than dying from starvation). End of story. He NEVER says "...even PUFA is not incompatible with good health..." He would never have said that a potato is "almost a perfect food," being a starch. Or he would have qualified almost with "but only if it weren't a starch" rather than what he actually said which is "other than missing some B12 and A." Think about it. Those quotes DO NOT AT ALL equate to "no starch." There is something wrong with the processing of logic if you believe that.

"PREFERABLY" means ideal, more desirable, it does NOT mean definitively not at all as you are trying to establish. Again, you misunderstand.

 

[InChristAlone]

The most important internet debate of his life.

haha yes especially considering he doesn't waste his time debating anymore.

 

[danishispsychic]

Thanks, that what I did , honey water with lemon & ginger. Helped!
I use olive oil. Not just b/c ''Ray said so'', but b/c CO known to clog pores and probably can mess w/absorption if it's not the MCT.
Also I email RP about my problems, he asked which Progesterone I use. I told him - Simply Progesterone, Molecular Progesterone complex in MCT & vE from Forefronthealth, and now I start Ona's Progesterone. He respond about the last one:
''The description of ingredients on their website doesn’t make sense, it seems they don’t have any idea what they are selling. I suspect that you might feel better without the supplements. ''
I love it - twice chipper, not so sticky, not so bitter like from healthnatura, .Then he add:''The only progesterone product I’m familiar with is Progest-E Complex, from Kenogen. It doesn’t contain any extraneous material.''
So now I got this one from Long natural health, soo sticky!, but also not bitter. 'Membranes' you mean genitals and vagina?(I hope we also, like guys here, can use the ''details'')
When you mention breast changing like an indicator I assume you're younger, do you use it like cycling? Because I'm not taking brake. Maybe I shouldn't even start at all with Progesterone because I'm too old for it!? Never found answer for this... Hormones very tricky

i use Progesterone when I feel like I need it . I dont take it on going. I also do a lot of iodine painting and was always told that it would have negative effects and it has the opposite. I also pulse dose that too. I never take any supplements ongoing. I had trouble with Progest E to be honest. I also made the switch from Honey to regular sugar ( it was hard- I was so brainwashed against it. ) I do drink what I consider to me magic lemonade now which for me is like a cure all. Lemon juice , collagen, SUGAR, and water. Sometimes I add bentonite or DE or charcoal or cayenne. I figured out that I was always under dosing everything - `I am on the tall side, Danish / German and have a size 10 foot and muscle y. lol. I kind of do better on what more people think is mega dosing. By membranes I mean all of them, lady parts and I used to put it in my nose too. If you are postmeno- I am not sure about going non stop but what I do think is that stopping is essential to kind of refresh sensitivity to it. I also think detox with like a whole day or most of the day once a week helps. I do that on Sunday.... tons of coffee, lemonade and coke sometimes milk... and just pee all day . It works some kind of magic for me.
ps. i am a recovered vegan and recovered eating disordered person :) i am so jealous that you got to email with Dr Peat.

 

[Cirion]

@danishispsychic what would you say were your mistakes on vegan eating? I am finding I am doing a "vegan inspired peat diet" currently actually based upon my findings on both excess protein and excess fats. But I am not eating nuts (too high PUFA) or beans for that matter, so that I can be under 2 gram pufa a today. I also don't like the high fiber content of a lot of vegan foods anyway, and don't eat many veggies either. Mostly, I'm just doing this to go low or even zero meat and dairy (I have since brought back 1-2 cups of nonfat dairy with no added vitamin A or D though since getting calcium is hard otherwise) but meat? I have almost no need for it anymore, except maybe for B12, but my protein intake was just wayyy too high before. Really I'm not technically vegan though, because I also still have gelatin. Like I say I was mostly just inspired by what they think about meat and dairy in terms of health. I really think fatty dairy in particular trashed my health.

 

[Ritchie]

@danishispsychic what would you say were your mistakes on vegan eating? I am finding I am doing a "vegan inspired peat diet" currently actually based upon my findings on both excess protein and excess fats. But I am not eating nuts (too high PUFA) or beans for that matter, so that I can be under 2 gram pufa a today. I also don't like the high fiber content of a lot of vegan foods anyway, and don't eat many veggies either. Mostly, I'm just doing this to go low or even zero meat and dairy (I have since brought back 1-2 cups of nonfat dairy with no added vitamin A or D though since getting calcium is hard otherwise) but meat? I have almost no need for it anymore, except maybe for B12, but my protein intake was just wayyy too high before. Really I'm not technically vegan though, because I also still have gelatin. Like I say I was mostly just inspired by what they think about meat and dairy in terms of health. I really think fatty dairy in particular trashed my health.

Bro nothing wrong with well cooked beans: low PUFA, particularly lentils and most other legumes apart from maybe soy and chickpeas which have a bit higher levels of fat. Also, beans have exceptionally good amino acid profiles, with very low tryptophan and methionine. Nothing wrong with some fibre, peat recommends people to eat quite a bit of fibre everyday with the raw carrot salads. Leafy green veggies are great for all sorts of minerals including calcium. Also, if you're not eating meat or dairy then gelatin is a waste of time and probably very problematic in terms of its powdered form. Peat doesn't recommend eating powdered gelatin, and only recommends eating gelatinous cuts of meat if one is to eat meat, because the amino acid profile of the gelatin will balance out and be protective against the high amounts of tryptophan and methionine in the rest of the meat and dairy being consumed. If much of your food consists of dairy and meat, then you will be eating an extremely high tryptophan and methionine diet, hence the rationale for eating gelatinous cuts of meat thereby adding in extra gelatin to the diet. If you aren't eating meat, or dairy for that matter, your consumption of tryptophan and methionine will be very low hence no need to add in gelatin to balance it out.

 

[Jennifer]

Peat doesn't recommend eating powdered gelatin, and only recommends eating gelatinous cuts of meat if one is to eat meat,

Ray actually said this? BEASTMODE posted this in the Ray Peat Email Advice Depository thread on March 8th of this year:

"Me:
Are you familiar with a safe way to make jello for kids? My toddler is wanting different types of foods she sees, but they’re all filled with harmful material.

Ray:
I mix Great Lakes (or similar) gelatin with sugar, add some water, and warm it in a microwave until it’s clear, then add frozen orange juice concentrate, or lime, lemon, or grape juice."