The Travis Corner

[Alpha]

I wouldn't think this would lead to any more antibodies available, but it could certainly cause more symptoms. Folates are a partial antidote to the autoantibodies that block their uptake, so anything tending towards lower concentrations of (active) folates would amplify their symptoms. Having low folates initially would decrease the amount of autoantibodies required to lower brain concentrations to the pathological level (although, there is a spectrum of cerebral folate deficiency).

Does anyone know what brand and dose did Travis recommend for those drinking milk?

 

[Terma]

 

[BigYellowLemon]

Update on jojoba oil: it won't work.

Turns out it's not a triglyceride like normal fat but is instead a wax monoester. The fatty acids are esterified with equally long fatty alcohols. That's why it's not digested normally wben people eat it. The only way to digest it would be the hydrolyse the ester with a strong base turning it into a FFA, but that would taste awful, and a large portion of the oil is actually long chain alcohols + random, possibly harmful sterols. It just wouldn't work.

But I think I found something better: Moringa oleifera oil, AKA ben oil. It's a normal digestible triglyceride oil that is 70% oleic acid, 6% palmitic, 5% stearic, 3% arachidic (20:0), and 6% behenic (22:0), plus small amounts of other random fats. In total it's 20-25% saturated, 70-75% monounsaturated, and 1% polyunsaturated! This is great! It has less PUFA than coconut oil or butter. Here's the study on it: Moringa oleifera Seeds and Oil: Characteristics and Uses for Human Health

A problem with going PUFA free is that there's no liquid fat that's also low PUFA that actually tastes like normal seed oil. MCT oil is liquid and low PUFA but it doesn't taste like seed oil at all, it sits in my stomach and causes some irritation, and doesn't have nearly the same texture or sensation of olive or seed oils. Vegetablr oils have a very specific heavyness and viscosity and they interact with the palate in a specific way while MCT is too watery and thin and doesn't taste appetizing. The fatty acid chain needs to be long to taste the same as seed oil, MCT tatses like a thin vinegary oil that just doesn't taste that good. I mean MCT isn't awful but it's simply not a true vegetable oil replacement.

So the only solution to finding a non-PUFA oil that tastes like PUFA is to use oleic acid. Oleic acid is the same length as PUFAs and is liquid at room temperature but is far, far more stable than PUFA is (almost as stable as saturated fats). The problem has been finding a source of oleic acid that doesn't also contain PUFAs, and up until now that didn't exist. Olive oil is mostly oleic acid but is also 15-20% PUFA and probably more with how adulterated it is, high oleic sunflower seed oil is 10-15% PUFA, and high oleic fats like butter or palm oil are solid at room temperature plus still have a sizeable amount of PUFA.

Ben oil solves all these problems. It's liquid at room temperature, nearly 80% oleic acid, contains 10% C20:0-22:0 (which might have some benefits, especially C:20:0), and contains barely any PUFA. It can be used for mayonaise that actually tastes like mayo, deep frying, sauteing, chili/garlic oil, etc. It will actually taste like seed oils while having a lower PUFA content than any fat Ray Peat recommends using, 1g of PUFA for every 100g consumed (same as coconut oil).

Luckily it also seems to be available online for somewhat cheaply. It seems 2lbs of the stuff can be had for $35, and with a normal oil consumption level (15-50g a day/150-500mg PUFA), the 2lbs could last a month. Add some mixed tocooherols and ascorbyl palmitate and you'd have a good tasty addition to the diet. Of course I'm scared the Moringa oil being sold online is adulterated so I'd either attempt an iodine value test or possibly get a sample tested by a lab.

Only true problem I can think of is arachidic (C20:0) and behenic (C22:0) having toxic effects. I don't think they do but there's always the possibility they could induce a Zellweger-like syndrome. There's also the possibility they'd make lipid bilayers more stable and help build the brain.

 

[Terma]

Huh, wasn't looking for this, but I may try that one. Hope the sellers are legit. How does it compare to macadamia oil in your book? (consistency/taste/price/etc.)

 

[BigYellowLemon]

Huh, wasn't looking for this, but I may try that one. Hope the sellers are legit. How does it compare to macadamia oil in your book? (consistency/taste/price/etc.)

I haven't tried Moringa oil yet, but from what I've read it has the same viscosity and mouthfeel as olive oil, it is liquid at room temperature, and it has a smoke point 52° F/11° C higher than olive oil, meaning it's much much more stable. It has a higher smoke point than any other liquid fat I've seen.

Apparently it has no smell and has an extremely subtle olive oil-like taste.

 

[Terma]

... thanks

I don't know what to think, the Amazon's choice brand has several reviews such as, "Does not Smell Like Moringa Oil. does not have the viscosity of Moringa Oil, does not have the color of Moringa Oil... Therefore is not a genuine product. Second time an Amazon Recommended product is fake..." What's real anymore?

It'd be interesting as a non-MCT/coconut replacement for macadamia oil (e.g. Macadamia Oil Supplementation Attenuates Inflammation and Adipocyte Hypertrophy in Obese Mice, Is Macadamia Nut Oil Healthy?), because I was never sure what to make of palmitoleic acid and I don't think I need more squalene, so it'd be interesting to swap it for a different unusual longer chain acid, but I'm not seeing a big price difference and I actually have (had) a regular grocery store selling macadiamia oil whereas I'd never find that stuff there. Granted it's a little lower in PUFA, I think. But it's the cooking aspect.



... Also, just to stay on-topic:

 

[BigYellowLemon]

More about Moringa/Ben oil:

It contains around 25mg equally mixed tocopherols per 100g of oil.

It also contains some sterols. 92% of total sterols are one of β-sitosterol, stigmasterol, campesterol, or Δ5-avenasterol. I'm currently trying to figure out how much there actually is per gram. I'm not surr whether thesr sterols are good or not.

Honestly I'd probably purify the oim and get rid of the sterols/phenols and other ***t, and sadly the tocopherols (which would still be worth it). It'd crrated a very pure tasting oil, similar on taste to crisco vegetable oil except with the mouthfeel olive oil. I'd just use the method companies use for purifying vegetable oil: add water, mix, and then pipette off and evap the rest, and then run the oil through diatomaceous earth and then activated charcoal, and finally through a couple paper filters.

 

[BigYellowLemon]

... thanks

I don't know what to think, the Amazon's choice brand has several reviews such as, "Does not Smell Like Moringa Oil. does not have the viscosity of Moringa Oil, does not have the color of Moringa Oil... Therefore is not a genuine product. Second time an Amazon Recommended product is fake..." What's real anymore?

It'd be interesting as a non-MCT/coconut replacement for macadamia oil (e.g. Macadamia Oil Supplementation Attenuates Inflammation and Adipocyte Hypertrophy in Obese Mice, Is Macadamia Nut Oil Healthy?), because I was never sure what to make of palmitoleic acid and I don't think I need more squalene, so it'd be interesting to swap it for a different unusual longer chain acid, but I'm not seeing a big price difference and I actually have (had) a regular grocery store selling macadiamia oil whereas I'd never find that stuff there. Granted it's a little lower in PUFA, I think. But it's the cooking aspect.



... Also, just to stay on-topic:

Macadamia nut oil is about 3-5% PUFA, 6-10% palmitic, 15-20% palmitoleic, 60-65% oleic, and about 3% arachidic/gadoleic/stearic.

In case you didn't know, palmitoleic is the monounsaturated version of oleic. Oleic acid is stearic acid with one double bond; palmitoleic acid is palmitic acid with one double bond. Both are quite stable, much more stable than any PUFA.

50g of macadamia nut oil will net you around 2.5g PUFA.

If you're willing to consume an oil that's 5% PUFA, then you should take a look at high-oleic sunflower seed oil. It's 80-85% oleic acid, 10-15% stearic/palmitic, and 3% PUFA. 41mg mixed tocopherols per 100g of oil.

It's maybe 35% cheaper than macadamia oil. But with how expensive macadamia nuts are, I think most macadamia oil is probably cut with cheaper oils. I mean just looking at how expensive the nuts by themselves are, and calcularing how much oil they have/cost, the prices for the oil seems economically impossible.

Edit: and I don't see why anyone would fake high oleic SS oil as it's so cheap to produce.

 

[Terma]

I mean the health impacts of palmitoleic acid or rather it endogenous role weren't too clear last I read it 2 years ago, mixed signals compared to other stuff like squalene and oleic. Coincidence you mention because the only packaged oiled products I buy are those with high-oleic sunflower (wasn't there another one? memory), but who'd consider using that alone? Really good point though: it must be cheap as absolute hell. Thanks for that, never crossed my mind. I think I actually will look into that.

Your prices don't apply much to me because I'm in Canada. I can buy bulk raw macadamia nuts and they're not cheap but decently affordable, and the store next to it sells macadamia oil. They even have this low-PUFA cookie dough with cocoa and macadamia. Now I can buy all this ***t and get super high at the same time! (Oil seems to help oral THC/CBD absorption a little, so this is not really a joke! ... or is it?!)

If you figure out the process to strip the garbage out and sell some on ebay as a skin lotion or somewhere (and it's not terrible) I'd probably try it, for the behenic (I stop caring much about PUFA around 4%). The behenic is heading toward Nervonic acid - Wikipedia (in salmon and here), so I wonder if it has any similar benefits despite the different saturation...

 

[rainbow5000]

Anyone want to explain why Travis says he smokes cigarettes every week? Did he stop doing that? How can someone so health obsessed be doing something like that?

 

[Runenight201]

Well if it helped him have that next level intelligence I don’t think I could fault him...I think he values it’s psychological effects over its negative physiological effects

 

[olive]

Anyone want to explain why Travis says he smokes cigarettes every week? Did he stop doing that? How can someone so health obsessed be doing something like that?

Beneficial effects on acetylcholine, memory, reaction times, digestion, metabolism, etc.
Negative effects can be mitigated by avoiding ammonia spiked cigarettes, sufficient food, vitamin c and y-tocopherols.

 

[rainbow5000]

Beneficial effects on acetylcholine, memory, reaction times, digestion, metabolism, etc.
Negative effects can be mitigated by avoiding ammonia spiked cigarettes, sufficient food, vitamin c and y-tocopherols.

If by "mitigated" you mean barely even affected, then yes. You think someone can just choose to smoke American Spirits instead of Marlboro and then as long as you get enough food and vitamin E and C you avoid the physical effects of inhaling an extremely resinous and tarry smoke? The science on this is pretty clear. You have to have willful blindness to think of deciding to smoke tobacco when interested in longevity as anything other than some sort of psychological or philosophical decision where the sheer pleasure and benefit outweighs the health risks. (Or as someone justifying their addiction). Look up what's in cigarette smoke, it has nothing to do with mainstream additives. The whole "cigarettes are healthy" conspiracy meme in the health community is pretty funny. And no one is even arguing that tobacco has no cognitive or metabolic benefits.

 

[Blossom]

If by "mitigated" you mean barely even affected, then yes. You think someone can just choose to smoke American Spirits instead of Marlboro and then as long as you get enough food and vitamin E and C you avoid the physical effects of inhaling an extremely resinous and tarry smoke? The science on this is pretty clear. You have to have willful blindness to think of deciding to smoke tobacco when interested in longevity as anything other than some sort of psychological or philosophical decision where the sheer pleasure and benefit outweighs the health risks. (Or as someone justifying their addiction). Look up what's in cigarette smoke, it has nothing to do with mainstream additives. The whole "cigarettes are healthy" conspiracy meme in the health community is pretty funny. And no one is even arguing that tobacco has no cognitive or metabolic benefits.

Maybe your post will bring him back.

 

[Mossy]

If by "mitigated" you mean barely even affected, then yes. You think someone can just choose to smoke American Spirits instead of Marlboro and then as long as you get enough food and vitamin E and C you avoid the physical effects of inhaling an extremely resinous and tarry smoke? The science on this is pretty clear. You have to have willful blindness to think of deciding to smoke tobacco when interested in longevity as anything other than some sort of psychological or philosophical decision where the sheer pleasure and benefit outweighs the health risks. (Or as someone justifying their addiction). Look up what's in cigarette smoke, it has nothing to do with mainstream additives. The whole "cigarettes are healthy" conspiracy meme in the health community is pretty funny. And no one is even arguing that tobacco has no cognitive or metabolic benefits.

Here is a perspective that will either provide you with more laughter or open you up to a different view:
Smoking To Cure Lung Infections and For Good Lung Health

Here is an interesting quote from the article, for an additional way to remedy the negative effects of smoking:

Taurine supplementation has been shown to reverse much of the damage caused by smoking (tobacco), even when smokers continue to smoke during treatment. A 2003 study found that damage caused by chronic smoking can be reversed in as little as five days with a dosage of 1.5 grams of taurine. The inner lining of the blood vessels, and the diameter of blood vessels returned to normal in the study.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Do you guys know if organic brands of tobacco powder are less hazardous then commercial ready made cigarettes like Marlboro?

Haidut and others also spoke about charcoal filters to mitigate the toxins . Maybe such a homade cigarette of solid organic tobacco with charcoal filter every now is not a bad idea. And if you don’t go and smoke 20 a day it isn’t more expensive than standard cigarettes

 

[LeeLemonoil]

I‘ve also read about people drinking tobacco tea, but I think they underestimate the hazards of high doses nicotine that solutes into the water

 

[Aymen]

Do you guys believe that even smoking cigarettes once in a while provides health benefits and the good outweigh the down ?

 

[Runenight201]

Do you guys believe that even smoking cigarettes once in a while provides health benefits and the good outweigh the down ?

A question like this wreaks of susceptibility to outside influences.

 

[rainbow5000]

I've read many of the various pro-tobacco websites, Nightlight's posts on longecity, and this whole thread re: nicotine's positives. I still haven't seen a reasonable justification though for why these positive effects wouldn't be gotten from vaporizing tobacco, from using a pipe/cigar (harm reduction), from using a tobacco extract ejuice, or using smokeless tobacco. Or nicotine gum/patch, but people are saying tobacco has all these extra benefits so that wasn't listed. So I can only see cigarettes as simply being more pleasurable and enjoyable than these alternative delivery mechanisms which ostensibly would give the same benefits, unless there's something specifically beneficial about inhaling combusted tobacco. I think this is fine, not everything everyone does has to be fully 100% healthy, but it's just interesting how many pro-tobacco folks appear to smoke cigarettes and often neglect alternate delivery methods that would seem to have all of the benefits with much, much less risk. I don't personally believe that taking gamma tocopherol is enough protection against the tar from cigarettes to consider it enough harm reduction. I wish there was more incorporation of the "hedonic calculus" involved in arguments for smoking rather than just espousing the physical benefits of tobacco repeatedly. Because people enjoying their life and having less stress often are healthier, so if for whatever reason cigarettes bring that much pleasure to you, and if you've been smoking daily for 4 decades, it might actually outweigh certain physical downsides in some cases. There was a post by Travis here saying he thought nicotine gum was the healthiest delivery method too (which I took to mean delivery mechanism for nicotine only, compared to vaping ejuice or something), but I didn't see any specific comments about what you don't get with just nicotine vs tobacco.