Progesterone

[Thea]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 069390072H

Can progesterone block aldosterone mineralcorticoid receptors?
I have adrenal fatigue and have had low normal levels of aldosterone, potassium, renin.
I replace progesterone at 200 mgs daily, Prometrium. I am almost 70, do not replace estrogen, taking 7-Keto DHEA 25 mgs, and 25 mgs hydrocortisone. Is it dose dependent? I have cognitive difficulties, hard to figure this out. Thank you.

Abstract
We characterized the pharmacological profiles of the human mineralocorticoid and glucocorticoid receptor for 11 natural and synthetic steroids regarding binding pharmacology, intracellular localization of hormone-receptor complexes, and agonistic or antagonistic properties at the gene expression level. The sex steroid progesterone bound with an affinity (ki < 0.01 nM) even higher than that of aldosterone to the human mineralocorticoid receptor and effectively antagonized the effect of aldosterone via the human mineralocorticoid receptor in functional co-transfection assays. This indicates that progesterone has potent antimineralocorticoid properties, while its antiglucocorticoid effects were less pronounced. The partial agonistic activities of antihormones in this assay suggest a direct interaction of antihormone-receptor complexes with the response elements on the DNA. These results are supported by immunofluorescence studies, in which both unliganded human mineralocorticoid and glucocorticoid receptors were distributed throughout the cytoplasm and nucleus, whereas agonist- as well as antagonist-receptor complexes showed an exclusively nuclear localization. These results contribute to the understanding of antihormone pharmacology and increase our understanding of the role of human mineralocorticoid and glucocorticoid receptors in physiological processes during different endocrine states.

 

[tara]

Thea!

I don't know the answer to your questions exactly, maybe someone else will.

That you are using progesterone and not estrogen sounds good. I know less about DHEA. I don't think Peat often recommends hydrocortisone. There are threads discussing his views on 'adrenal fatigue' - IIRC, he mostly puts it down to low thyroid function.

If you are low in potassium, I wonder if you have been eating enough fruits and vegetables that contain generous potassium?
Are you salting food to taste to keep sodium from getting too low? I think Haidut may have posted recently that progesterone supplements, via lowering aldosterone, can increase the need for sodium. Low sodium (hyponatremia) is apparently fairly common amongst older people, and sometimes not adequately addressed. It can mess with cognition (and other issues - I've seen this in someone I know recently). Peat suggests salting food to taste as usually the best guide to how much we need.

That you are having trouble figuring it out doesn't mean you are not thinking well though - it really is quite complex, and can take quite a bit understand all the hormone interactions. I'm beginning but certainly don't have it all clear in my head yet.

Hope you find something useful to you in this forum.

 

[Thea]

Thank you Tara, finally getting back here. I just do not have the ability to figure it all out for my doc. Finding lots of push back now that I must work with 'normal' medical folks due to insurance/finances. Mine wants me to stop progesterone and wants medical literature to back up taking it alone at age 68. I have Hashi's, treated but not until age 40 when I believe I had it from birth. I also have 'congenital' chronic anemia which might be caused by SHMT gene polymorphism. Working with a hematologist again to get one again IV iron which I know is controversial. However, I have been extremely fatigued most of my life, so much worse as time goes on and so many other symptoms including chronic pain, neuropathy (ideopathic), heavy metals, degenerative joint disease with 5 joint replacements and one needing revision. Chronic migraines daily for over 1.5 years and many days a week for over 30 years may be caused by cervical nerve impactment after two neck surgeries, I am seeking a neurosurgeon for evaluation/MRI. Just constant stuff.
Not sure the best place to post, will try this first.
Thanks again, Thea

 

[Thea]

At the request of my new doc, I need medical literature to back up my taking bioidentical progesterone only at age 68. I have taken bioidentical progesterone for over 20 years, had to stop bioidentical estriol at lowest dose possible about 4 years ago due to extremely painful breasts. I have symptoms of Hashi's even tho treated, low adrenal function, take good salt to help regularly daily, water and food. Chronic pain and fatigue, neuropathy, brain fog, chronic headches with symptoms of trigeminal neuralgia, Spinal impingements. Myelin involvement. I am taking 200 mg Prometrium because it is covered by insurance and I am seriously financially challenged. Had to change to Medicaire/Medicaid docs who are not functional docs so they are pushing back and want proof. I have read that progesterone has been show to Progesterone Synthesis in the Nervous System: Implications for Myelination and Myelin Repair:
In conclusion, multiple therapeutic approaches remain to be further explored for promoting myelin repair with progestagens in demyelinating diseases or after injury. The administration of synthetic progestins and natural progesterone are both interesting options. An important question is their mode of administration. Nasal application, easy to implement for efficient delivery of progesterone into the brain, deserves particular attention. Because natural progesterone is converted in the brain to neuroactive metabolites, and because the hormone targets multiple signaling mechanisms, its future use for the treatment of demyelinating diseases, and other neurological disorders should be considered. Stimulating the production of endogenous neuroprogesterone in the nervous system with TSPO ligands offers new perspectives for remyelinating and neuroprotective interventions. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3274763/

 

[Giraffe]

Chronic pain and fatigue, neuropathy, brain fog, chronic headches with symptoms of trigeminal neuralgia, Spinal impingements. Myelin involvement.

Thea, is it sure that there is myelin involvement'? Or is it only a pet theory to explain ideopathic trigeminal neuralgia?

Chronic migraines daily for over 1.5 years and many days a week for over 30 years may be caused by cervical nerve impactment after two neck surgeries.

Have you tried fascial release massage or something like Chinese massage?

 

[Thea]

Over 20 years ago a Naturopath told me I had myelin involvement. Fibro, neuropathy. Yes, Tui Na was wonderful once in San Diego. Also used to have a terrific Shiatsu masseuse Richard Barager who I have not been able to find for years. I have yet to find anything like that experience near Portland, OR. Funny thing, stopped my B vits for a few days and headaches stopped but started up again last night after being out in
the world. I have been using coenzymated multi b's by Thorne. I know that B1 will give me massive headaches, so switched to Benfotamine but thought the coenzyme form was ok sublingually. With methylation/sulfation detox issues (MTHFR A1298 C) and other
genetic polymorphisms I keep working on it but oh so complex with CBS, SHMT, MRR, others...

 

[marsaday]

You need to try something very simple. Reduce the progesterone by a good amount to see if you have any adverse reactions. It may well be the progesterone is causing problems. Men and women make about 20mgs per day, but you are taking 200mg, so you are on a lot. Women produce much more at times of the month, but it is not all the time. A normal daily dose for a woman is 20mgs.

You also take 25 DHEA and the normal safer dose to try and use regular is 5mcg a day. You also take HC 25 mug which is a normal replacement dose. However it does seem you are fully supporting your adrenals and possibly over replacing.

I would get a 24h adrenal saliva test to see the state of your cortisol.

Very often with hormones less can be more. So the simple thing to try is reduce down one hormone at a time and see how you feel. If things improve it indicates you were on too much. If they worsen it indicates you needed these amounts. You need to reduce progesterone and rhea, but one must be done at a time and so this may mean having a gap of 4 weeks between starting on the second hormone.

 

[Giraffe]

Over 20 years ago a Naturopath told me I had myelin involvement. Fibro, neuropathy. Yes, Tui Na was wonderful once in San Diego. Also used to have a terrific Shiatsu masseuse Richard Barager who I have not been able to find for years. I have yet to find anything like that experience near Portland, OR.

Two doctors suspected that I had trigeminal neuralgia. When I asked what it is I was told that it was caused by myelin damage. Back than I read a lot into this, and I realized that it's almost always idiopathic (= they do not know if myelin damage is involved). Many sufferers go for decades through all kinds of examinations, but neither find explanations nor recovery.

In my case it was partly caused by tension. Tension leads to pain and bad posture and vice versa; it's all stress for the body. I think that untreated hypothyroid people are susceptible to this kind of vicious circle.

 

[Whichway?]

Two doctors suspected that I had trigeminal neuralgia. When I asked what it is I was told that it was caused by myelin damage. Back than I read a lot into this, and I realized that it's almost always idiopathic (= they do not know if myelin damage is involved). Many sufferers go for decades through all kinds of examinations, but neither find explanations nor recovery.

In my case it was partly caused by tension. Tension leads to pain and bad posture and vice versa; it's all stress for the body. I think that untreated hypothyroid people are susceptible to this kind of vicious circle.

Do you have any root canalled teeth on the side where you get the pain? Or have you been checked for jaw bone cavitation from old teeth extractions on that side? I’m always curious as to potential involvement of teeth issues to TN.