Notes Toward An "Optimal Peat Diet"

[nwo2012]

Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet" (BPD)

Thanks. Replied after some bag breathing and a crumb of cynoplus.

 

[narouz]

Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet" (BPD)

Thanks. Replied after some bag breathing and a crumb of cynoplus.

Is this a Peatian form of intoxication I need to know about?

 

[nwo2012]

Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet" (BPD)

Thanks. Replied after some bag breathing and a crumb of cynoplus.

Is this a Peatian form of intoxication I need to know about?

Yes CO2, better than cannabis. :P

 

[narouz]

Peat Potato Soup as a Springboard to Starch Considerations

nwo2012 wrote:

But yes the focus here is that starches, in the correct amounts, can be compatible with good health. Of course we want to eat safe ones to minimize fiber (feed gut bacteria and increase endotoxin). So we stick to well cooked potatoes and masa.

I confess I have little chemistry training or aptitude, but...
what makes a starch a starch?
Is it only the fiber?
Is fiber synonymous with starch?

I don't think so, but I could easily be wrong.

Let me dramatize the issue by asking it this way nwo2012.
What if your dear friend starting eating this "Peat Diet":

1. Breakfast: big bowl of rice cooked with lye for over an hour, ala Peat. 16 oz milk. Gelatin. Couple shrimp.
2. Lunch: 3 big cheese-filled Masa Harina (w/ lime, correct Peat) tortillas. 8 oz milk. Gelatin. Couple oysters.
3. Supper: big bowl of potatoes cooked over 40 minutes with butter. 8 oz milk. Gelatin. A little liver.

He (your close friend) repeated this for his standard daily diet.
Any concerns?

Not only the fiber of course, its also the sugars are chained together. And of course glucose based.

Concerns?

1. Missing out on the potassium and Vitamin C in OJ.
2. No sources of fructose, far too much glucose.
3. Just 3 meals means too large gaps in between. If the friend feels ok on this I suggest he has hypothyroidism.
4. Where is the coffee? Missing out on a lot of magnesium in additon to caffeine, theobromine and theophyline (great for keeping bile from getting stagnant and detoxing liver)

Thats at a glance. Maybe replace one source of starches with a large serving og OJ and add in a couple cups of coffee.

Back to our exploration of the place of starches in a Peat diet....

I would be less sanguine, nwo2012, about recommending that much starch
in a Peat-derived diet--
even with the modifications you note.

Just as a starting point and by way of explaining why,
consider a subject dear to your heart (and mine!):
"Ray Peat Protein Potato Soup," as you call it.

I have been listening to the interview with Peat by Josh and Jeanne
called Dr. Ray Peat: Glycemia, Starch and SUGAR in context!
by Josh Jeanne Rubin
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/eastwe...ray-peat-glycemia-starch-and-sugar-in-context

First, let me summarize some of the things Peat says about potatoes and his recommended
"potato soup."
Here are some snippets:

Peat outlines how root vegetables like turnips and potatoes, if properly prepared,
can be "pretty safe":

"For example, young turnips and young potatoes
that have not maximized their starch production,
eaten with butter,
after being thoroughly cooked,
are pretty safe."

Let's pause there a sec and just consider
before going futher
the fairly intense qualifications and caveats
Peat has mentioned already:

-he doesn't sweepingly include All root vegetables or All starches
-he notes the potatoes and turnips should be "young," before they can
"maximize their starch production"
-he says they should be "thoroughly cooked" (and by this I believe Peat means over 40 minutes)
-he says they should be eaten with butter
-and after all those steps and qualifier he says they will be "pretty safe"
(not, perhaps, the most ringing endorsement).

So, even when it comes to "roots and tubers,"
a carbohydrate source ranked next-best by Peat next after fruits,
he still expresses how much care and "technology" and trouble
one must go to in order to protect against the negative contents of these starches.

Focusing in on potatoes (around the 46 minute point)
Peat says that "potatoes are almost unique among the plant materials":

"The liquid part of the potato, in between the starch grains...
has the equivalent of amino acids, besides some proteins.
These are the keto acids, which can be used by the brain and heart
as a substitute for sugar or fatty acids and are really an ideal
anti-stress fuel and can instantly turn into amino acids as needed.
And so, apart from the starch, the potato is an amazing food."

High praise indeed.
But note that none of that praise is directed toward the starch component.
Peat then discusses
Potato extract (or what we've been calling Potato Soup).
He discusses anecdotal evidence he has observed in supposedly incurable, undiagnosed,
dying people
who have eaten such soup, and its remarkable healing properties.
He describes how to make it:

"Just by juicing a few pounds of potatoes...
with a centrifugal juicer you throw out the starch grains almost completely,
and then you cook it just like you would scrambling an egg. The juice coagulates,
so it's sort of like limp mashed potatoes."

Okay, so note the special technology needed--the centrifugal juicer--
to get rid of the starch.
And note also that the remaining extract still should be cooked.
Peat continues:

"This [the cooked extract] provides both energy and the essential amino acids
but without the stimulating insulin or cortisol, so its sort of an emergency food
for almost any stress problem."

Notice above how getting rid of most of the starch,
by centrifuging and cooking,
creates a food "without the stimulating insulin or cortisol"
problems of starch.

So my point here--besides getting me geared up for some potato juicing--
is to point out Peat's view of starch.

Even in potatoes,
which Peat calls "almost unique among plant materials,"
and an "amazing food" when centrifuged and cooked...

...even, then, with Peat's very favorite starchy food
notice how careful he is to caution against potential dangers
and to describe how to avoid them.

Essentially, all those cautions and steps amount to:
get rid, as completely as possible, of the STARCH!

I don't think Peat is at all cavalier about including starches into one's diet.
In fact, he goes to great lengths to describe how best to avoid it.
The potato soup is just one specific example.
But it is part of a pattern,
part of a general view of nutrition in Peat's work,
which makes me hesitate in thinking that
an ideal or strict Peat derived diet
would include starchy foods--even the preferred Peat starches--
to any major extent.

 

[j.]

Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet" (BPD)

^^ narouz, that was an excellent post!

 

[j.]

Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet" (BPD)

what do you all think about apples? is it a good food? is it too starchy? can cooking it in certain ways make it better?

 

[narouz]

Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet" (BPD)

what do you all think about apples? is it a good food? is it too starchy? can cooking it in certain ways make it better?

Thanks, "j'.
I believe Peat has said of
fibrous and/or starchy fruits
that they can be "improved" by cooking.

So...I'm not sure exactly how great a food you'd end up with,
from a Peat perspective:
"Improved"...okay. How much improved?
Would they be "good for you" or would they just be "less harmful"...?

And if I am remembering correctly,
Peat frequently says that starches, if you gotta eat 'em,
are made safer by eating them with (good) fats--butter or coconut oil, for example.
I don't know the mechanism behind that protectiveness....

 

[narouz]

Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet" (BPD)

I put this is the Peat Quotations thread,
but it is relevant to our discussion about the place of starches in a Peat diet:

"Any carbohydrate...that is not sugar can potentially feed bacteria [in the intestines] that produce toxins and cause systemic stress."

from Dr. Ray Peat: Glycemia, Starch and SUGAR in Context!
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/eastwe...ray-peat-glycemia-starch-and-sugar-in-context

Go to approximately the 29 minute mark of the interview.

Starch would qualify as a
"carbohydrate that is not sugar," yes?

 

[nwo2012]

Re: Peat Potato Soup as a Springboard to Starch Consideratio

I confess I have little chemistry training or aptitude, but...
what makes a starch a starch?
Is it only the fiber?
Is fiber synonymous with starch?

I don't think so, but I could easily be wrong.

Let me dramatize the issue by asking it this way nwo2012.
What if your dear friend starting eating this "Peat Diet":

1. Breakfast: big bowl of rice cooked with lye for over an hour, ala Peat. 16 oz milk. Gelatin. Couple shrimp.
2. Lunch: 3 big cheese-filled Masa Harina (w/ lime, correct Peat) tortillas. 8 oz milk. Gelatin. Couple oysters.
3. Supper: big bowl of potatoes cooked over 40 minutes with butter. 8 oz milk. Gelatin. A little liver.

He (your close friend) repeated this for his standard daily diet.
Any concerns?

Not only the fiber of course, its also the sugars are chained together. And of course glucose based.

Concerns?

1. Missing out on the potassium and Vitamin C in OJ.
2. No sources of fructose, far too much glucose.
3. Just 3 meals means too large gaps in between. If the friend feels ok on this I suggest he has hypothyroidism.
4. Where is the coffee? Missing out on a lot of magnesium in additon to caffeine, theobromine and theophyline (great for keeping bile from getting stagnant and detoxing liver)

Thats at a glance. Maybe replace one source of starches with a large serving og OJ and add in a couple cups of coffee.

Back to our exploration of the place of starches in a Peat diet....

I would be less sanguine, nwo2012, about recommending that much starch
in a Peat-derived diet--
even with the modifications you note.

Just as a starting point and by way of explaining why,
consider a subject dear to your heart (and mine!):
"Ray Peat Protein Potato Soup," as you call it.

I think you missed the point of my reply. I wasnt for one moment recommending eating that amount of starch. I was simply saying what stood out about that diet if that is what this friend. If I were writing a Peat 'diet' for someone it would be as mine is. That is maybe once daily to once every two days having a 'safe' starch such as Masa or potatoes, certainly not a daily intake based around 'safe starches'.
Im not sure if the juicer I use for the potatoes is centrifugal but I can assure you the method I employ does remove pretty much all the starch. I showed Peat both the juicer and explained the process and he was quite sure it was 'Peat kosher'.

Hope this explains my position better.
i.e. I completely agree with your points.

 

[narouz]

Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet" (BPD)

Okay, I gotcha nwo2012.
Darn...I've been trying to get someone to argue with me about starches. :P

Man, you've got some kind of direct line to The Peatmeister!
I love the info you pass on--thanks.

I'm pulling out my juicer I used in The Lost Mercola Days.
I think it is centrifugal.
Even though it is a nifty contraption, it is a bit of a pain to clean up,
so I was thinking I could juice A LOT of potatoes and store the juice in the frig.

 

[j.]

Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet" (BPD)

I think many of us would benefit from seeing a picture of the potato juice, if anyone could post oen.

 

[narouz]

Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet" (BPD)

I think many of us would benefit from seeing a picture of the potato juice, if anyone could post oen.

nwo2012 has apparently mastered the Ray Peat Protein Potato Soup,
and even had it and the equipment used therein officially endorsed by Dr. Peat!
But does he have a camera?

 

[nwo2012]

Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet" (BPD)

Okay, I gotcha nwo2012.
Darn...I've been trying to get someone to argue with me about starches. :P

Man, you've got some kind of direct line to The Peatmeister!
I love the info you pass on--thanks.

I'm pulling out my juicer I used in The Lost Mercola Days.
I think it is centrifugal.
Even though it is a nifty contraption, it is a bit of a pain to clean up,
so I was thinking I could juice A LOT of potatoes and store the juice in the frig.

Sorry to disappoint.
Yes I make a large batch, cook then refrigerate. I guess you could freeze so you can make enough for a month or two.
Yep, it's like a direct line. He is an incredible human being, completely selfless. I have always tried to be this way too (not in my younger years though).

 

[nwo2012]

Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet" (BPD)

I think many of us would benefit from seeing a picture of the potato juice, if anyone could post oen.

nwo2012 has apparently mastered the Ray Peat Protein Potato Soup,
and even had it and the equipment used therein officially endorsed by Dr. Peat!
But does he have a camera?

I will txt my boss (wife) to take photos of all the stages of prep. I think a new batch is being prepared today.

 

[Kemby]

Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet" (BPD)

Should there be a section on damage reduction/mitigation?

Listing specific times/types of foods when it is more useful to take certain foods to mitigate/reduce (Even halt?) the unwanted effects of some substances (PUFA,Tytrophane, phosphate etc) with our mitigation tools - coffee, coconut oil, salt, gelatin, aspirin/vitamin K2

I say this because getting my head around timing of the above and for what reason was one of the things that took the longest

Your thoughts ?

Martin

Ps, I saw mentioned earlier about a poster Zachariah in the perfect health diet thread. Zachariah is a very switched on guy and has been eating this was for quite some time I believe. I am friends with him on FB and will mention this forum to him if he hasn't already seen it as I am sure he could make a massive contribution if he was so inclined.

 

[narouz]

Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet" (BPD)

Listing specific times/types of foods when it is more useful to take certain foods to mitigate/reduce (Even halt?) the unwanted effects of some substances (PUFA,Tytrophane, phosphate etc) with our mitigation tools - coffee, coconut oil, salt, gelatin, aspirin/vitamin K2

Martin,
If I'm understanding you right,
yes--about the Timing thing.
As in When it is best to eat certain foods.

For instance, Peat has said it is better to eat your proteins in the daytime,
and the fats at night.
I think that's correct.

Also the best Combinations of foods:
no orange juice with meat,
should have (a good) fat with any starch, etc....

I've really loved hearing Zachariah's views also!

 

[charlie]

Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet" (BPD)

For instance, Peat has said it is better to eat your proteins in the daytime,
and the fats at night.
I think that's correct.

Yeh thats what I gathered.

Also the best Combinations of foods:
no orange juice with meat,
should have (a good) fat with any starch, etc....

True again.

I've really loved hearing Zachariah's views also!

Ditto that! It would be really great for the community to have Zachariahs input!

 

[nwo2012]

Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet" (BPD)

I think many of us would benefit from seeing a picture of the potato juice, if anyone could post oen.

Now posted in this forum (new thread RPPPS).

 

[nwo2012]

Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet" (BPD)

Should there be a section on damage reduction/mitigation?

Listing specific times/types of foods when it is more useful to take certain foods to mitigate/reduce (Even halt?) the unwanted effects of some substances (PUFA,Tytrophane, phosphate etc) with our mitigation tools - coffee, coconut oil, salt, gelatin, aspirin/vitamin K2

I say this because getting my head around timing of the above and for what reason was one of the things that took the longest

Your thoughts ?

Martin

Ps, I saw mentioned earlier about a poster Zachariah in the perfect health diet thread. Zachariah is a very switched on guy and has been eating this was for quite some time I believe. I am friends with him on FB and will mention this forum to him if he hasn't already seen it as I am sure he could make a massive contribution if he was so inclined.

Yes most of the info is here but scattered around. With aspirin just in the morning is fine as it has a long acting anti-inflammatory effect, so timing not so important.

 

[Kemby]

Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet" (BPD)

I can't remember at this moment but what about salt in regards to the above?

I seem to remember reading experimenting with 1-3 (Sometimes more) teaspoons a day. Can their be timings for this? Does it have any mitigating/damage reduction qualities?

Martin