Nootropic/supplement To Socialize/relax

[jet9]

Guys hi,

I have a problem. Basically it's very difficult for me to relax, socialize, relate to others. Partly because of that my social life is pretty much none existent now.

If there is some kind of competition involved in socializing - let's say playing sports - i am great at that! I am very competitive person and right a way i understand what to do. But right after the competition part stops, people start talking, joking - i got lost right a way. Bored, anxious, etc.

Also i am afraid to hit on girls. If girl won't make steps and show that she is VERY VERY interested i won't move. So i am thinking maybe i have low T. However remember from teenage years in situations when some bully/bullies were trying to attack my friends - i was always first to act, and all my friends/colleagues know me as the guy to solve this kind of situations. I even remember my much stronger physically friend got attacked by bullies and i was the one to act - he himself submitted a bit. Telling this not to brag, just to explain that in conflict situations i hardly ever afraid, it's just in social ones i afraid. Also i am much eager to help my friends than myself. And in general it's very hard for me to accept help from anyone.

Please advise. I know ideally i should try to solve this naturally. But it does not work. I tried everything for years! - diet, meditation, working out, sun, less computer time - not results.

 

[Cirion]

Social confidence has everything to do with hormones.

I'm like you, but when my hormones are supercharged I become a completely different person oozing with awesomeness and confidence. All I can see is keep trying - it's always a work in progress for me too.

Also, if you don't already, nofap - a real game changer (for me and many others) with social anxiety.

Sorry but there's no magic supplement that's going to do this for you except maybe vitamin S, the whole lifestyle matters. Some of us just have to work at it harder (trust me I know, I'm one of them) to have good hormone levels. Most of my days are still mediocre myself.

I will say for me a game changer seems to be saturated fat. Ever since going Peat I have been actually rather disappointed in my libido because I dropped lots of fat in favor of sugar. Saturated fat is the driver for male health/confidence IMO.

 

[Constatine]

Sounds like a high serotonin- low oxytocin state that is so commom now adays. I don't recommend this regularly but to just get a better understanding of what is causing this try taking aspirin with caffeine, sugar, and vitamin c and see if your symptoms improve acutely. It should antagonize serotonin and increase oxytocin.

 

[Cirion]

Good call on the vitamin C. I might try that out as well.

aspirin is one thing i haven't tried yet, i suppose because i'm paranoid about bleeding.

 

[Constatine]

Good call on the vitamin C. I might try that out as well.

aspirin is one thing i haven't tried yet, i suppose because i'm paranoid about bleeding.

In that case don't take it with vitamin c at the same time as vitamin c can thin the blood a bit.

 

[michael94]

Sounds like a high serotonin- low oxytocin state that is so commom now adays. I don't recommend this regularly but to just get a better understanding of what is causing this try taking aspirin with caffeine, sugar, and vitamin c and see if your symptoms improve acutely. It should antagonize serotonin and increase oxytocin.

oxytocin is fake love and quite toxic

 

[Cirion]

I'm guessing he meant dopamine.

 

[LUH 3417]

Guys hi,

I have a problem. Basically it's very difficult for me to relax, socialize, relate to others. Partly because of that my social life is pretty much none existent now.

If there is some kind of competition involved in socializing - let's say playing sports - i am great at that! I am very competitive person and right a way i understand what to do. But right after the competition part stops, people start talking, joking - i got lost right a way. Bored, anxious, etc.

Also i am afraid to hit on girls. If girl won't make steps and show that she is VERY VERY interested i won't move. So i am thinking maybe i have low T. However remember from teenage years in situations when some bully/bullies were trying to attack my friends - i was always first to act, and all my friends/colleagues know me as the guy to solve this kind of situations. I even remember my much stronger physically friend got attacked by bullies and i was the one to act - he himself submitted a bit. Telling this not to brag, just to explain that in conflict situations i hardly ever afraid, it's just in social ones i afraid. Also i am much eager to help my friends than myself. And in general it's very hard for me to accept help from anyone.

Please advise. I know ideally i should try to solve this naturally. But it does not work. I tried everything for years! - diet, meditation, working out, sun, less computer time - not results.

Socializing is pretty competitive especially if you’re trying to be the funniest or most interesting person

 

[japanesedude]

you can try baby aspirin.
It has strong anti anxiety effects for me and makes me easy to breath properly when Im stressed out.

 

[General Orange]

Guys hi,

I have a problem. Basically it's very difficult for me to relax, socialize, relate to others. Partly because of that my social life is pretty much none existent now.

If there is some kind of competition involved in socializing - let's say playing sports - i am great at that! I am very competitive person and right a way i understand what to do. But right after the competition part stops, people start talking, joking - i got lost right a way. Bored, anxious, etc.

Also i am afraid to hit on girls. If girl won't make steps and show that she is VERY VERY interested i won't move. So i am thinking maybe i have low T. However remember from teenage years in situations when some bully/bullies were trying to attack my friends - i was always first to act, and all my friends/colleagues know me as the guy to solve this kind of situations. I even remember my much stronger physically friend got attacked by bullies and i was the one to act - he himself submitted a bit. Telling this not to brag, just to explain that in conflict situations i hardly ever afraid, it's just in social ones i afraid. Also i am much eager to help my friends than myself. And in general it's very hard for me to accept help from anyone.

Please advise. I know ideally i should try to solve this naturally. But it does not work. I tried everything for years! - diet, meditation, working out, sun, less computer time - not results.

You know how to socialize, you have the skills, but the isolation feeds your learned helplessness.

You are not self confident enough to overcome insecurities and have anticipation fears in engagements,
If you do not try to confront yourself and overcome these issues by interaction, you will not realize how illogical the fear of confronting was in the first place, and stay in a vicious circle that keeps you helpless.

There are 2 thing you need to overcome it:
1. understanding of the difference between the perception of the world as a man and as woman.
for this you have to learn to know yourself and the woman, and be able to imagine yourself in the woman's shoes, understand their perspective, relative to yours. Also you have to be able to image how a woman feels in situations, and her reactions. like an imaginary role playing game, but this can be experienced as little gay sometimes. but that's ok.
2. the guts to engage and learn from mistakes. this will upgrade your brain and hardwire it to overcome unrealistic fears. and decrease your learned helplessness.
these 2 things will synergize together and will add to experience that improves your skill to accept yourself.

-now you can also help boost mood and guts a little with a supplement that increase neurotransmitters and favors dopamine, like Saint John's wort, (or cocaine)

 

[Thoushant]

1/4 Magnesium Valproate pill + 1 pill megabol inh-AR
The MV is not completely known MoA, but involves raising GABA. PS check side effects first though.
the megabol inh-AR I used to plummet estrogen, but it has a lot of effects on the body. probably some considered anti-peat.
This quenches my self-talk and makes me more focused on what is going on socially. Suddenly my fears are not my reality.

If you excel at social competitive games, then you should be all set for the remaining part: competitive activities is what teaches you how to engage socially, even after a loss.

dota2 actually helped me in social situations: 1 hour of focused play, constant change of strategy and behaviour to fit in with what everyone else is doing.

This is the flow model
Flow Model theory by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi | ToolsHero
So your boredom and anxiety is of mixed events: either it's too easy for you, or suddenly too chalenging?

Maybe your boredom stems from the fact that you don't need the ego strokes most people are so eager to get socially. In that case, you can pay attention to what is going on, and how you can influence the situation to any outcome you feel like.

I think you might be making a mistake of assuming the competitvenes is not there anymore. It's still there, it's like a foundation. You have to pay attention to what is considered a win or a loss socially, and who the opponenets/teams are. This should take the boredom out.

For the anxiety it could be from personal fears: You can not engage, worry of how it will be perceived. Imagine if you could get what you want socially, by just "asking for it" or having it "easy", it wouldn't be fun, anything you are worried about, and maybe dreaming of an optimal scenario: it would be boring, and have no realistic ending.


Social gatherings is "structured time", plus everyone's "child" "id" having an opportunity to get attention. There are needs to be satisfied. genereally everyone is chasing the same "most beautiful" "most funny" "most attractive to opposite" "best story" etc etc, It's about getting attention, and reacting when attention is gone.
But also there are subtle differences, somebody would like to be gloated at, so all his setups somehow lead to people laughing at his demise.
Another one will like to get sympathy, so there is always something truly horrible going on, and you can't do anything else but feel pity.
Another one might have achieved very big, but still feel the need for validation, so he will be telling you a story of his bigs, but you can see some desperation for approval.
Most are seeking a competion, and they are engaged socially assuming you will respond from the same position. ie to truly feel great about something, kinda requires that what happend have a real impact on peoples behaviour, making them jealous or smilair. Maybe the want the challenge to asses how confident their position is. Can anyone socially phase me from the position I have? or am I truly competent/in the rights in this situation.
This structure also dectiates how relaxed you can be: a drink after a match with you buddies you can and should bring the rudest behaviour, a galla festival, you should be subtle of how to still say the same you would in a drinking bar.

Assume everyone is a child, everyone is screaming for attention, if you like someone give them attention(aka what they seek), if you dislike, remove attention. GABA and other calming agents can help you become less tense and reactive, so you actually understand what the **** the person is about, before you say something stupid or irrelevant.

From you competitive game to socially: What is the position you have. If you have been very good, people will try to "knock you down"/ "I'll get you next time, I will win" and you have to engage in banter to diffuse it. "yeah right you couldnt even...."/"bring it on"/"I ain't scurred" ridicoulous statements..
If you don't engage you are not allowing others to relate to you, literally they will have no clue what to do with you, you will be keeping them at far away distance for your safety concerns, but they will also respect your stance and keep away from you.
If you are parked to the side of a conversation, you can bet some of the jokes are directed at you (body language wise, eyes) so if you have trouble doing something for yourself, this is an easy approach, pay attention, when is the joke on you, and how can you respond, it's your time to shine.

If you didn't do too well, maybe you need to go poke the good players, call them out on their fouls, or misbehaviour, call shots for anyone who scored 3+ goals etc etc. Just annoy them. Tell stories to put them down socially if they are doing too good with the ladies etc. Tell small lies of how badly their treated you, etc etc, be creative.

With all that, there are some rules to how rude/hard you can be, and they come from social play, childs play to decitate what is too offensive and what is acceptable. Like a baby tiger will throw fists, but will not hurt. The mother will fight back, she can kill this little tiger, but she uses just enough force according to the baby tigers competence/strength. In human equlivants, you can't force anyone to do something, and you can't be too hard in structuring time, but maybe you can structure the time in such a way, that you set up the winner to have done something bad in eyes of the losers, and the losers choose the social peer pressure/ punishment of 3 shots.

Games People Play have a good overview of some plays people take seriously at social gatherings.

 

[jet9]

Guys, hi

Thank you for all your replies! You are very helpful!

 

[jet9]

I will say for me a game changer seems to be saturated fat. Ever since going Peat I have been actually rather disappointed in my libido because I dropped lots of fat in favor of sugar. Saturated fat is the driver for male health/confidence IMO.

I also noticed positive effect from animal fat (lard) - more energy, more confidence.

Did you notice any effect from starch? Positive/negative?

 

[jet9]

1/4 Magnesium Valproate pill + 1 pill megabol inh-AR
The MV is not completely known MoA, but involves raising GABA. PS check side effects first though.
the megabol inh-AR I used to plummet estrogen, but it has a lot of effects on the body. probably some considered anti-peat.
This quenches my self-talk and makes me more focused on what is going on socially. Suddenly my fears are not my reality.

If you excel at social competitive games, then you should be all set for the remaining part: competitive activities is what teaches you how to engage socially, even after a loss.

dota2 actually helped me in social situations: 1 hour of focused play, constant change of strategy and behaviour to fit in with what everyone else is doing.

This is the flow model
Flow Model theory by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi | ToolsHero
So your boredom and anxiety is of mixed events: either it's too easy for you, or suddenly too chalenging?

Maybe your boredom stems from the fact that you don't need the ego strokes most people are so eager to get socially. In that case, you can pay attention to what is going on, and how you can influence the situation to any outcome you feel like.

I think you might be making a mistake of assuming the competitvenes is not there anymore. It's still there, it's like a foundation. You have to pay attention to what is considered a win or a loss socially, and who the opponenets/teams are. This should take the boredom out.

For the anxiety it could be from personal fears: You can not engage, worry of how it will be perceived. Imagine if you could get what you want socially, by just "asking for it" or having it "easy", it wouldn't be fun, anything you are worried about, and maybe dreaming of an optimal scenario: it would be boring, and have no realistic ending.


Social gatherings is "structured time", plus everyone's "child" "id" having an opportunity to get attention. There are needs to be satisfied. genereally everyone is chasing the same "most beautiful" "most funny" "most attractive to opposite" "best story" etc etc, It's about getting attention, and reacting when attention is gone.
But also there are subtle differences, somebody would like to be gloated at, so all his setups somehow lead to people laughing at his demise.
Another one will like to get sympathy, so there is always something truly horrible going on, and you can't do anything else but feel pity.
Another one might have achieved very big, but still feel the need for validation, so he will be telling you a story of his bigs, but you can see some desperation for approval.
Most are seeking a competion, and they are engaged socially assuming you will respond from the same position. ie to truly feel great about something, kinda requires that what happend have a real impact on peoples behaviour, making them jealous or smilair. Maybe the want the challenge to asses how confident their position is. Can anyone socially phase me from the position I have? or am I truly competent/in the rights in this situation.
This structure also dectiates how relaxed you can be: a drink after a match with you buddies you can and should bring the rudest behaviour, a galla festival, you should be subtle of how to still say the same you would in a drinking bar.

Assume everyone is a child, everyone is screaming for attention, if you like someone give them attention(aka what they seek), if you dislike, remove attention. GABA and other calming agents can help you become less tense and reactive, so you actually understand what the **** the person is about, before you say something stupid or irrelevant.

From you competitive game to socially: What is the position you have. If you have been very good, people will try to "knock you down"/ "I'll get you next time, I will win" and you have to engage in banter to diffuse it. "yeah right you couldnt even...."/"bring it on"/"I ain't scurred" ridicoulous statements..
If you don't engage you are not allowing others to relate to you, literally they will have no clue what to do with you, you will be keeping them at far away distance for your safety concerns, but they will also respect your stance and keep away from you.
If you are parked to the side of a conversation, you can bet some of the jokes are directed at you (body language wise, eyes) so if you have trouble doing something for yourself, this is an easy approach, pay attention, when is the joke on you, and how can you respond, it's your time to shine.

If you didn't do too well, maybe you need to go poke the good players, call them out on their fouls, or misbehaviour, call shots for anyone who scored 3+ goals etc etc. Just annoy them. Tell stories to put them down socially if they are doing too good with the ladies etc. Tell small lies of how badly their treated you, etc etc, be creative.

With all that, there are some rules to how rude/hard you can be, and they come from social play, childs play to decitate what is too offensive and what is acceptable. Like a baby tiger will throw fists, but will not hurt. The mother will fight back, she can kill this little tiger, but she uses just enough force according to the baby tigers competence/strength. In human equlivants, you can't force anyone to do something, and you can't be too hard in structuring time, but maybe you can structure the time in such a way, that you set up the winner to have done something bad in eyes of the losers, and the losers choose the social peer pressure/ punishment of 3 shots.

Games People Play have a good overview of some plays people take seriously at social gatherings.

Thoushant, gaba supp/noots for sure relax me! Sometimes too much! Piracetam was godsend for me. It has some gaba action and some dopamine so it was making me socially active! One of the best times in my life :) Did not took it in 5 years, maybe will try it back.
Problem sometimes it makes you hypomanic which is not good.

 

[jet9]

Socializing is pretty competitive especially if you’re trying to be the funniest or most interesting person

pinacolada, in fact when i was a teenager that's exactly what i was doing! Often i was funniest/most popular person - but problem i still could not really relate to people so i could not maintain strong relationships.

 

[xetawaves]

500mg of phenibut every other day has done wonders for me. It's important to keep your dosages low to avoid withdrawal when you decide to stop taking it.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

kava

 

[lampofred]

Definitely sounds like too much serotonin, most likely caused by excessive estrogen relative to androgens, especially the part about helping others before helping yourself and rejection sensitivity. Decreasing estrogen, increasing androgens/progesterone to increase GABA and decrease serotonin will probably help a lot, but I have no idea how to actually do that unfortunately... I have the same issue. Daily meditation is probably the most helpful thing I've found so far but the effect is subtle. Phenibut/alcohol/GABA-ergic drugs are short-term bandaids imo which will make the issue worse in the long-run.

Not trying to encourage anyone to do illegal drugs, but sometimes I think just indulging in MDMA for a while will really help some people by just killing those annoying serotonin neurons but obviously many, many things could go wrong, and it's an extremely risky approach to take with death as a possible consequence

 

[LUH 3417]

Definitely sounds like too much serotonin, most likely caused by excessive estrogen relative to androgens, especially the part about helping others before helping yourself and rejection sensitivity. Decreasing estrogen, increasing androgens/progesterone to increase GABA and decrease serotonin will probably help a lot, but I have no idea how to actually do that unfortunately... I have the same issue. Daily meditation is probably the most helpful thing I've found so far but the effect is subtle. Phenibut/alcohol/GABA-ergic drugs are short-term bandaids imo which will make the issue worse in the long-run.

Not trying to encourage anyone to do illegal drugs, but sometimes I think just indulging in MDMA for a while will really help some people by just killing those annoying serotonin neurons but obviously many, many things could go wrong, and it's an extremely risky approach to take with death as a possible consequence

Yea I feel similarly about psilocybin. I became much less helpless and needy, and let go of a lot of that false selflessness that just leads to negative feelings and victim hood. It could also be a bit destabilizing and cut my appetite which caused some other issues, but in its entirely it induced a huge personality shift in terms of how I relate to myself an others.

 

[LUH 3417]

pinacolada, in fact when i was a teenager that's exactly what i was doing! Often i was funniest/most popular person - but problem i still could not really relate to people so i could not maintain strong relationships.

Well I’m not sure at all how true this is but just speaking from my personal experience I think adolescents generally feel like they can’t relate to others and it’s a part of growing up...band of outsiders. Also I see the value in even trying to be interesting/interest others or make them laugh..because even if you fail or don’t relate it’s like you made yourself vulnerable and expressed some part of your humanity and I think everyone can relate to that. Have you tried cypro?