MitoLipin - Liquid Saturated Phosphatidylcholine (PC) Mix

[Hans]

It must not be. You're using Zeus supplement's serving as reference. One large eggs provides about 150 mg of choline, whereas the amount that you mentioned 170 mg, both as phosphatidylcholine. The fatty acids in the molecule are responsible for a great deal of that weight.

True, the body can easily make that amount. Eating lots of coconut oil to make DAG for PC synthesis via the Kennedy pathway will provide the lauric acid. Any idea how much PC can synthesize a day?

 

[Amazoniac]

True, the body can easily make that amount. Eating lots of coconut oil to make DAG for PC synthesis via the Kennedy pathway will provide the lauric acid. Any idea how much PC can synthesize a day?

That's a question for @Terma.

 

[Terma]

I believe it's several grams, but I read those studies 2 years ago or so and I can't remember where what was. All I can remember clearly is being put off from consuming lecithin because you'd need too much to make a dent (phospholipids were heavily promoted for ME/CFS, but the products created were all soy lipids and revolting). This is the only thing Recoll can find in my PDFs at the moment: Dietary Phospholipids and Intestinal Cholesterol Absorption

The predominant PL in the intestinal lumen is PC, which is the second most abundant lipid in the
digestive tract after triglyceride [6]. PC is derived not only from the diet but also from the bile. In fact,
the biliary pathway delivers 10–20 g of PL and ~1.5 g of cholesterol to the intestinal lumen per day

So the PC synthesis is some fraction of 10-20g. But PC is the biggest fraction, PE second. I'll have to continue this some other day, you might find it before that. I thought I read a maximum of 8g somewhere but my memory is probably wrong, it seems too high.

 

[Terma]

This was the product heavily promoted for ME/CFS, I bought it, it was in powder form and I ended up throwing it out: http://ntfactor.com

[It wasn't nearly as bad as trying to gulp down spoonfuls of "liquid" lecithin, but still... don't buy this unless you're staring down a barrel]

 

[Terma]

[Edit: Wrong thread, guess it's time to sleep again]

 

[Hans]

I believe it's several grams, but I read those studies 2 years ago or so and I can't remember where what was. All I can remember clearly is being put off from consuming lecithin because you'd need too much to make a dent (phospholipids were heavily promoted for ME/CFS, but the products created were all soy lipids and revolting). This is the only thing Recoll can find in my PDFs at the moment: Dietary Phospholipids and Intestinal Cholesterol Absorption

So the PC synthesis is some fraction of 10-20g. But PC is the biggest fraction, PE second. I'll have to continue this some other day, you might find it before that. I thought I read a maximum of 8g somewhere but my memory is probably wrong, it seems too high.

Thanks.

 

[Amazoniac]

Guru,
- Is it feasible to sell a version with only the cheaper stearic acid form for those that are after choline? Tocopherols would be dispensable. Not sure if there are others interested on this.
- How much gets absorbed intact on average when ingested? How much the composition of a meal can interfere on how it's incorporated?
- What happens if someone insists on taking a single form? Is it saturable?

 

[Lee Simeon]

Guru,
- Is it feasible to sell a version with only the cheaper stearic acid form for those that are after choline? Tocopherols would be dispensable. Not sure if there are others interested on this.
- How much gets absorbed intact on average when ingested? How much the composition of a meal can interfere on how it's incorporated?
- What happens if someone insists on taking a single form? Is it saturable?

Interested in this as well!

 

[Cameron]

Does PC increase dht and at what dose would this help increasing dht?

 

[jaakkima]

For anyone wondering, I think Mitolipin has a strong effect on gut barrier integrity, which has been one of my main problems.

 

[Mossy]

For anyone wondering, I think Mitolipin has a strong effect on gut barrier integrity, which has been one of my main problems.

For this use are you using it internally?

 

[jaakkima]

For this use are you using it internally?

No, topically.

 

[Lee Simeon]

For anyone wondering, I think Mitolipin has a strong effect on gut barrier integrity, which has been one of my main problems.

This is very interesting, could you please expand?

 

[Mossy]

No, topically.

Thank you for clarifying.

 

[jaakkima]

This is very interesting, could you please expand?

Some of the studies haidut originally posted are about PC helping intestinal barrier integrity. Over a long period of time I've come to associate many of my issues with endotoxin/gut barrier, and response to certain substances. It feels like the PC is helping it a lot, likely the Vitamin E too, though to really address my symptoms I'm having to also take a lot of Tocovit (and antibiotics, Mg, B vitamins, protein, etc....). The Mitolipin feels more thyromimetic, it warms my ears up nicely and reliably.

 

[andrei]

Triee it for the first time yesterday in the evening. 20 drops. Stayed awake all night, but i am calm and not moody.
I will try it again in the weekeknd at 5 drops or so.
Any logical reason for staying awake?

 

[Mossy]

Triee it for the first time yesterday in the evening. 20 drops. Stayed awake all night, but i am calm and not moody.
I will try it again in the weekeknd at 5 drops or so.
Any logical reason for staying awake?

Interesting to see I wasn’t the only one who got an insomnia effect from this.

 

[Mito]

This study seems to suggest palmitic and stearic fatty acids in cardiolipin as abnormal?

Cardiolipin and electron transport chain abnormalities in mouse brain tumor mitochondria: lipidomic evidence supporting the Warburg theory of cancer*

“The complexity of CL molecular species is regulated through both synthesis and remodeling. The condensation of phosphatidylglycerol and CDP-diacylglycerol produces immature CL, which contains predominantly shorter chain saturated and monounsaturated fatty acyl chains (palmitic and oleic acids). The immature CL is then remodeled to form mature CL through the coordinated activities of specific lipases and acyltransferase/transacylase, which remove and transfer, respectively, longer chain unsaturated FAs from the sn-2 position of donor choline and ethanolamine glycerophospholipids (39–41). We recently showed that the complex pattern of brain CL molecular species arises from a simple remodeling process involving random FA incorporation (38).”

“Our findings of CL abnormalities in five diverse mouse brain tumor types are consistent with earlier studies in rat hepatomas showing shorter chain saturated FAs (palmitic and stearic) characteristic of immature CL (22, 62). On the basis of these and other observations, we suggest that most tumors, regardless of cell origin, contain abnormalities in CL composition and/or content.”

Cardiolipin and electron transport chain abnormalities in mouse brain tumor mitochondria: lipidomic evidence supporting the Warburg theory of cancer

 

[Antonello]

@haidut thinking about supplement extra choline for NAFLD, wondering if mix topical Mitolipin with choline bitartrate can turn the last into a more saturated version. Is that possibile due to the carrier property of MiTo?

 

[haidut]

@haidut thinking about supplement extra choline for NAFLD, wondering if mix topical Mitolipin with choline bitartrate can turn the last into a more saturated version. Is that possibile due to the carrier property of MiTo?

I don't think it will turn into a saturated version. The bitartrate version is a dicarboxylic acid so there is nothing there to saturate.