Is niacin really the cause of heart disease? Debunk!

[ecstatichamster]

A terminal metabolite of niacin promotes vascular inflammation and contributes to cardiovascular disease risk - Nature Medicine

Following the observation that higher circulating levels of metabolites derived from niacin—an essential micronutrient that is fortified in cereals—are associated with a higher risk for cardiovascular events, genetic and preclinical studies established links among niacin-derived metabolites...

www.nature.com

This study obliquely suggests that heart patients have lots of niacinamide metabolites in their bloodstream, and therefore suggests niacin is bad.

 

[High_Prob]

Taken from a conversation on Reddit:

“Don't believe this study if you think it's telling you to stop taking your vitamins (or eat peanuts, for God's sake), here's 5 reasons why:

1. ⁠No dietary intake of niacin was measured in this study. The authors have no clue if the participants who were experiencing heart disease actually took a niacin supplement. It is entirely possible that none of these people with heart disease ever touched a supplement in their life.
2. ⁠While 4PY is the niacin breakdown product associated with the increased risk of disease in this article), another breakdown product is 2PY. However, 2PY did not show an increased risk for heart disease. Why? Is it really niacin breakdown that's the problem, or just the pathway leading to 4PY that is upregulated in the disease state?
3. ⁠A quick search on PubMed will tell you that 4PY is generated by an oxidation process. The enzyme we typically point to here is aldehyde oxidase. But 4PY can also be produced by xanthine oxidase, an enzyme WE ALREADY KNOW is associated with heart disease.
4. ⁠4PY can also be formed in a non-enzymatic fashion in reaction with certain oxidants. Could these data simply be noting that excess oxidation is a hallmark of heart disease? Something else we already know is that inflammation = ROS production that can lead to disease.
5. ⁠The body normally filters 2PY and 4PY from the bloodstream into the urine. If you read Extended Data Fig 6 (from the Nature Medicine publication) you'll see that the estimated glomerular filtration rate (eGFR: a measure of kidney function) has a negative correlation with both 2PY and 4PY - stronger than any other measure provided in the study. Could these data be telling us that impaired kidney function leads to heart disease?

In other words, enough with the supplement haters. Niacin is no more dangerous today than it was yesterday.”

 

[youngsinatra]

A 'manganese bullet' targeting cardiovascular disease? Research finds potential therapy for intensive lipid lowering

Cardiovascular disease (CVD) continue to rank as the top killer in the modern world. This deadly disorder often starts with the buildup of lipid deposits or plaques within the blood vessel, silently setting the stage for atherosclerosis. Rupture of these atherosclerotic plaques, however, could...

medicalxpress.com

Maybe an interaction with Mn?

 

[mosaic01]

“There’s a great unfilled need for something that raises HDL,” said Dr. Steven E. Nissen, a cardiologist at the Cleveland Clinic and president of the American College of Cardiology. “Right now, in the wake of the failure of torcetrapib, niacin is really it. Nothing else available is that effective.”

In 1975, long before statins, a landmark study of 8,341 men who had suffered heart attacks found that niacin was the only treatment among five tested that prevented second heart attacks. Compared with men on placebos, those on niacin had a 26 percent reduction in heart attacks and a 27 percent reduction in strokes. Fifteen years later, the mortality rate among the men on niacin was 11 percent lower than among those who had received placebos.

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/23/health/23consume.html

 

[charlie]

Seems like deep state propaganda to me:


View: https://x.com/MicroBerto/status/1760089773606121739?s=20

 

[charlie]

“There’s a great unfilled need for something that raises HDL,” said Dr. Steven E. Nissen, a cardiologist at the Cleveland Clinic and president of the American College of Cardiology. “Right now, in the wake of the failure of torcetrapib, niacin is really it. Nothing else available is that effective.”

In 1975, long before statins, a landmark study of 8,341 men who had suffered heart attacks found that niacin was the only treatment among five tested that prevented second heart attacks. Compared with men on placebos, those on niacin had a 26 percent reduction in heart attacks and a 27 percent reduction in strokes. Fifteen years later, the mortality rate among the men on niacin was 11 percent lower than among those who had received placebos.

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/23/health/23consume.html

Yes, and notice....its Niacin as Nicotinic acid that saves the heart.

 

[mosaic01]

Yes, and notice....its Niacin as Nicotinic acid that saves the heart.

Yes niacinamide has zero effect.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Taken from a conversation on Reddit:

“Don't believe this study if you think it's telling you to stop taking your vitamins (or eat peanuts, for God's sake), here's 5 reasons why:

1. ⁠No dietary intake of niacin was measured in this study. The authors have no clue if the participants who were experiencing heart disease actually took a niacin supplement. It is entirely possible that none of these people with heart disease ever touched a supplement in their life.
2. ⁠While 4PY is the niacin breakdown product associated with the increased risk of disease in this article), another breakdown product is 2PY. However, 2PY did not show an increased risk for heart disease. Why? Is it really niacin breakdown that's the problem, or just the pathway leading to 4PY that is upregulated in the disease state?
3. ⁠A quick search on PubMed will tell you that 4PY is generated by an oxidation process. The enzyme we typically point to here is aldehyde oxidase. But 4PY can also be produced by xanthine oxidase, an enzyme WE ALREADY KNOW is associated with heart disease.
4. ⁠4PY can also be formed in a non-enzymatic fashion in reaction with certain oxidants. Could these data simply be noting that excess oxidation is a hallmark of heart disease? Something else we already know is that inflammation = ROS production that can lead to disease.
5. ⁠The body normally filters 2PY and 4PY from the bloodstream into the urine. If you read Extended Data Fig 6 (from the Nature Medicine publication) you'll see that the estimated glomerular filtration rate (eGFR: a measure of kidney function) has a negative correlation with both 2PY and 4PY - stronger than any other measure provided in the study. Could these data be telling us that impaired kidney function leads to heart disease?

In other words, enough with the supplement haters. Niacin is no more dangerous today than it was yesterday.”

thank you very much!

 

[InChristAlone]

3. ⁠A quick search on PubMed will tell you that 4PY is generated by an oxidation process. The enzyme we typically point to here is aldehyde oxidase. But 4PY can also be produced by xanthine oxidase, an enzyme WE ALREADY KNOW is associated with heart disease.

I was trying to figure out how do we prevent xanthine oxidase from doing damage? At first I researched if food forms can harm us because milk can have a lot of it. And apparently they decided that no it didn't effect us like that. But then why is xanthine oxidase elevated in the body?

 

[Ras]

Some foolish people are quick to disregard decades of therapeutic nicotinic acid use by Abram Hoffer in favor of any contrary new data. These naysayers likely will die younger and sicker than Hoffer.

 

[David PS]

I was trying to figure out how do we prevent xanthine oxidase from doing damage? At first I researched if food forms can harm us because milk can have a lot of it. And apparently they decided that no it didn't effect us like that. But then why is xanthine oxidase elevated in the body?

John Ely has some answers to your questions in this 1996 article. I will check my other computer to determine if he has published any other information that might be helpful. Searching the internet, one might conclude that he never wrote anything.

Unrecognized Pandemic Subclinical Diabetes of the Affluent Nations: Causes, Cost and Prevention

(3) XA was found in the urine of each ofthe eight diabetic humans tested. They pointed out that diabetes incidence is much higher in countries where much fat and tryptophan (from animal protein) is consumed. Because of this simply testable response of XA rapidly disappearing from urine of diabetics or heart patients (or anyone given a high dietary ratio of factor tryptophan to B6), awareness of this striking and important effect should have spread rapidly like an information avalanche through clinical medicine worldwide.

 

[charlie]

Come to find out they are talking about niacinamide, not nicotinic acid. It is starting to make sense now.

 

[olowshinenine]

Sorry I dont understand any of this. I take niacin 500 once a week to keep my cholesterol in check. Should I stop or continue? Is it causing inflammation?
I am asking you folks because my doctor is a moron and just wants to give me a big pharma pill

 

[charlie]

Sorry I dont understand any of this. I take niacin 500 once a week to keep my cholesterol in check. Should I stop or continue? Is it causing inflammation?
I am asking you folks because my doctor is a moron and just wants to give me a big pharma pill

Are you taking niacinamide or nicotinic acid?

 

[olowshinenine]

Are you taking niacinamide or nicotinic acid?

Dr. Clark Store | The Leader In Pure Vitamins and Supplements

The ORIGINAL Dr. Hulda Clark manufacturer. Shop now for potent herbal cleanses and pure dietary supplements. Free shipping on orders over $99.

drclarkstore.com

This one

 

[High_Prob]

I was trying to figure out how do we prevent xanthine oxidase from doing damage? At first I researched if food forms can harm us because milk can have a lot of it. And apparently they decided that no it didn't effect us like that. But then why is xanthine oxidase elevated in the body?

The inhibitory kinetics and mechanism of dietary vitamins D3 and B2 on xanthine oxidase - PubMed

Dietary guidelines to promote health are usually based on the patterns' prediction on disease risk of foods and nutrients. Overactivity of xanthine oxidase (XO) is the underlying cause of gout. Herein, the inhibitory kinetics and mechanism of dietary vitamins D3 and B2 on XO were investigated by...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Elevated Xanthine Oxidase in Vitamin E Deficiency

Abstract. Immunochemical evidence is presented that the increased xanthine oxidase activity that occurs in the livers of rabbits deficient in vitamin E is

academic.oup.com

Come to find out they are talking about niacinamide, not nicotinic acid. It is starting to make sense now.

They are talking about NAD+. 4PY is a byproduct of NAD+. Therefore, they are actually referring to both Niacinamide AND Nicotinic Acid since they both lead to NAD+ and then 4PY. However, the study appears to be junk anyway so…

EDIT: I am now unsure about what I stated above about NAD+ being what ultimate increases 4PY. Even if Niacinamide is what breaks down to 4PY, it wouldn’t make a difference since Niacin becomes Niacinamide so would ultimately breakdown to 4PY anyway…

 

[charlie]

Dr. Clark Store | The Leader In Pure Vitamins and Supplements

The ORIGINAL Dr. Hulda Clark manufacturer. Shop now for potent herbal cleanses and pure dietary supplements. Free shipping on orders over $99.

drclarkstore.com

This one

That is Nicotinic Acid so it is flush Niacin which is the one that is shown to be heart protective.

 

[mosaic01]

However, the study appears to be junk anyway so…

Given the big names involved in the study, including some from Berlin Charité, it makes me wonder whether this study actually serves a propanda purpose.

Here's an article from 2012 that gives an impression about the war on niacin:

Why Merck's Niacin Failure Will Scare Drug Researchers

A failed Merck clinical trial raises questions for all HDL-boosting drugs.

www.forbes.com

Since big pharma was not able to create a drug to replace niacin, the positive effect of niacin was simply declared to not exist.

 

[Badger]

Seems like deep state propaganda to me:


View: https://x.com/MicroBerto/status/1760089773606121739?s=20

Yes, it is DS propaganda. Likely positioning niacin as a cover for vax deaths,

 

[High_Prob]

Yes, it is DS propaganda. Likely positioning niacin as a cover for vax deaths,

How do you determine whether a study is ‘deep state propaganda’? Should we not trust any study that comes out of the Nature publication?