Iron Metabolism

[youngsinatra]

How do you approach „fixing methylation“?

I think methylation is very important for overall liver metabolism (where most iron and copper is metabolized)

I currently take B2, methylfolate and a B12 mix of methylcobalamin/adenosylcobalamin for supporting methylation.
I have heard of a few people who fixed their low copper pattern just with B2. Apparently it helps in the mobilization and utilization of metals from the liver.

I eat lots of animal protein, exclusively chicken for the last months, because I cannot tolerate beef anymore — pushes me into hyperzincemia, hypocupremia plus the iron is probably problematic in that state too.
I eat lots of animal protein for the supply of creatine and methionine.

I would like to know how you approach methylation.

 

[bruschi11]

I donated blood and now it seems like my life is over for good. After battling chronic illness for most of the last decade.

I got blood work back (from before the blood draw) after the blood draw showing some definite things to work on like elevated cystine (believe E needed for this) and some methylation issues. B12 was neeed again. Same stuff I was focusing on in fall.

But I strayed from methylation most of novemebr December. And I was rightly working on some hormones. I needed them .

But while in a bad place I donated blood. I cannot tell you how bad this neuro disease got after giving blood.

Guy I’m working with thinks I’ve been dumping iron (as my htmas show) and I give blood.. body keeps dumping iron. There were no minerals to help the dump like zinc calcium must have gotten destroyed by the donation. B12 went back down.

I am not completely home bound. This is so ******* stupid.

 

[youngsinatra]

***t. I felt so relieved after donating blood. And I know many who felt the same with elevated ferritin.

In a conversation I had with Morley Robbins, he said that some individuals really need to focus on buildng a strong foundation first before donating blood.

 

[youngsinatra]

Can you explain your current protocol in a bit more detail?

How do you support methylation for example?

 

[bruschi11]

Can you explain your current protocol in a bit more detail?

How do you support methylation for example?

Methylation through b12 (which I hadn’t touched for 2.5 months), b2, maybe moly depending on situation and need. Moly can’t be deficient. Folinic acid, if I wanna go higher dose I’ll take folic.

Methylation has saved my life numerous times now. My last bloodwork showed really a collapse of the folate cycle. Low serine glycine and low histidine. I made some strides in late fall and I think correcting histidine was big.

I was using the lifewave patches ghk and ahk. Until I couldn’t… when I couldn’t histidine was fixed. I think it’s a huge factor here. I am moving back to mainly methylation approach and taking eyes off hormones.

 

[youngsinatra]

How much B2 are you taking?

I‘m investigating B2 more in-depth after I talked to someone who fixed his low mineral pattern on blood tests (low serum copper, low ceruloplasmin, plasma zinc, ferritin) by just taking 10mg of B2 per day. He is also has the MTHFR C667 and he halved his homocysteine with just B2.

Too much B2 can stirr up iron and copper from my experience and from other people who are experimenting with B2.

 

[bruschi11]

@youngsinatra

I think b2 is the capital b vitamin for many. But if there are other issues, things will have to go with it. Sometimes b2 isn’t enough for b12. You need actual b12. Moly will be needed cuz FAD recycles b12. But sometimes you can’t even give moly as that just destroys cooper, Fe3.

I think what we all are trying to accomplish here is fe2 utilization. We eat our food that has fe2 and it has to be used. Unfortunately some of us have fe2 going through entire body for years and methylation goes down.. it accumulates.

Excess fe3 unused causes methylation to go down. So if you’re just trying to treat fe2 like a bomb it’s not smart. You gotta slowly and thoughtfully use this stuff up. Build your hormones with it.

Cholesterol—> pregnenolone is such gigantic process for body. Using your cholesterol to build hormones. That process needs iron #1. What is the

How much B2 are you taking?

I‘m investigating B2 more in-depth after I talked to someone who fixed his low mineral pattern on blood tests (low serum copper, low ceruloplasmin, plasma zinc, ferritin) by just taking 10mg of B2 per day. He is also has the MTHFR C667 and he halved his homocysteine with just B2.

Too much B2 can stirr up iron and copper from my experience and from other people who are experimenting with B2.

About 10mg a day. B2 has saved my life on numerous occasions.

I had some good signs yesterday but I knew deep down just how weak my brain has gotten. It’s really bad. I was up and about for a few hours. But I felt it. My brain couldn’t protect itself. Something is extremely wrong. And although I was falling apart prior- the donation put me over the top.

I believe body needs histidine glycine serine for fe2. Many reasons why. Estrogen ultimately but the folate cycle needs to be running good.

And it’s how the body absorbs fe2. I really messed up donating. But I also really messed up focusing on hormones. Yes I need estrogen and methylation needs to work for that beyond Dhea.

Really bummed out. Feeling like my life is over. It’s really bad. I’ve been through a ton over the years.

 

[Hidden49]

Have you tried taking copper, or having calcium foods like yogurt, milk or milk chocolate, I tried an iron supplement last year like only 5mg and I also felt terrible for a week but having calcium foods like yogurt and milk chocolate really helped and copper helped too.

Modified citrus pectin is also a really helpful binder that doesn’t deplete your minerals unlike other binders and I find that really helpful too. It binds to stuff in the blood unlike other binders.

 

[Hidden49]

Ps your life is defo not over, just your current depleted state you’re in at the moment is making you feel like that

 

[redsun]

@youngsinatra

I think b2 is the capital b vitamin for many. But if there are other issues, things will have to go with it. Sometimes b2 isn’t enough for b12. You need actual b12. Moly will be needed cuz FAD recycles b12. But sometimes you can’t even give moly as that just destroys cooper, Fe3.

I think what we all are trying to accomplish here is fe2 utilization. We eat our food that has fe2 and it has to be used. Unfortunately some of us have fe2 going through entire body for years and methylation goes down.. it accumulates.

Excess fe3 unused causes methylation to go down. So if you’re just trying to treat fe2 like a bomb it’s not smart. You gotta slowly and thoughtfully use this stuff up. Build your hormones with it.

Cholesterol—> pregnenolone is such gigantic process for body. Using your cholesterol to build hormones. That process needs iron #1. What is the


About 10mg a day. B2 has saved my life on numerous occasions.

I had some good signs yesterday but I knew deep down just how weak my brain has gotten. It’s really bad. I was up and about for a few hours. But I felt it. My brain couldn’t protect itself. Something is extremely wrong. And although I was falling apart prior- the donation put me over the top.

I believe body needs histidine glycine serine for fe2. Many reasons why. Estrogen ultimately but the folate cycle needs to be running good.

And it’s how the body absorbs fe2. I really messed up donating. But I also really messed up focusing on hormones. Yes I need estrogen and methylation needs to work for that beyond Dhea.

Really bummed out. Feeling like my life is over. It’s really bad. I’ve been through a ton over the years.

Its normal to feel a little like crap from blood donation. The initial reaction from a surge of catecholamines in response to the blood loss is usually positive. A lot of people report feeling euphoric even. But this from the adrenaline.

Then once it wears off, you often feel like crap because you become slightly hypoxic which reduces ATP production and it increases stress on the tissues depending on how your hemoglobin was before the donation. If your health was already in a delicate state before you donated, its like the final straw that breaks the camel's back.

Within 2 weeks you should feel markedly better and more normal. It can take up to 12 weeks to normalize hemoglobin levels though as long as you have enough iron. Usually men's hemoglobin restores significantly faster due to the effects of androgens. If you still feel ***t after like 6 weeks it would be a good idea to get a CBC and iron panel done. You may not have enough actual iron in the system. I recall you consume a lot of dairy. Don't know if thats still true. It doesn't matter if you take the cofactors for iron metabolism if you are still missing the actual iron.

 

[bruschi11]

Its normal to feel a little like crap from blood donation. The initial reaction from a surge of catecholamines in response to the blood loss is usually positive. A lot of people report feeling euphoric even. But this from the adrenaline.

Then once it wears off, you often feel like crap because you become slightly hypoxic which reduces ATP production and it increases stress on the tissues depending on how your hemoglobin was before the donation. If your health was already in a delicate state before you donated, its like the final straw that breaks the camel's back.

Within 2 weeks you should feel markedly better and more normal. It can take up to 12 weeks to normalize hemoglobin levels though as long as you have enough iron. Usually men's hemoglobin restores significantly faster due to the effects of androgens. If you still feel ***t after like 6 weeks it would be a good idea to get a CBC and iron panel done. You may not have enough actual iron in the system. I recall you consume a lot of dairy. Don't know if thats still true. It doesn't matter if you take the cofactors for iron metabolism if you are still missing the actual iron.

I was really really really bad before the donation. I’m at high risk of Parkinson’s/ ALS due to the fact I had Cyanobacteria (bmaa) in my body for a long time. Bmaa causes SOD1 malfunction. It’s been clear for a long time now iron metabolism is what my body needs and copper zinc are extremely important historically.

Also my htma was showing close to a “4 lows pattern” before donating. I’m going to be doing blood work again very soon. I see that plasma copper goes up and zinc goes down in blood donation.

I had amino acid issues, which I look at methylation for, prior to donation. Glycine serine histidine all down, cystine elevated. So I’ve started the lifewave ghk/ahk patches targeting the glycine serine hist.

Have been using E for cystine. I’m told by guy I’m working with cystine elevation is not cysteine. Cystine piles up outside the cell. It’s a cell permeability issue. Unfortunately E has been speeding me up too much causing more electrolyte “4 lows” issues.

It feels like there is zero calcium in brain. I think brain is full of fe2,

I really messed up. Sure, you know a 1 month setback. Even a crash I was having before the donation. It wasn’t good. But donation just killed my ability to retain elextrolytes just killed it. Been 15 days now.

 

[bruschi11]

Have you tried taking copper, or having calcium foods like yogurt, milk or milk chocolate, I tried an iron supplement last year like only 5mg and I also felt terrible for a week but having calcium foods like yogurt and milk chocolate really helped and copper helped too.

Modified citrus pectin is also a really helpful binder that doesn’t deplete your minerals unlike other binders and I find that really helpful too. It binds to stuff in the blood unlike other binders.

MCP gets fe2 as well. It might help. I have it here. Not yet.

Copper is really tough right now. I have ghk-cu on hand. I basically see cu/ estrogen as what absorbs unbound fe2- converting it to fe3. And then body needs to use the fe3. But that speeds the body up.

Hence why a lot of people experience racing brain with copper.

I’ve decided to stop basically everything. I have Yasko’s multivitamin. Will give that and follow Wilson’s 4 lows approach mainly small amount of zinc with about 1000mg ca 500mag. Also will give the lifewave patches ghk/ahk.

I need to slow down system dramatically. E + cu + methylation been speeding me up way too much. Body can’t do anything without electrolytes and I’m just going more and more depleted.

 

[bruschi11]

I think I need to start looking at this as vitamin E’s affect on my nutritional status next to the donation right now for its affects on me.

So I seemed to react to Dhea/ cu pretty similarly to prior the donation- BEFORE I started E. E is hitting me so hard in a depleted body and I was heading towards 4 lows. E no no in 4 lows.

Maybe move E to once a week? Maybe just get it in multi. Maybe every 4-5 days. I’ve historically used E when successful every 3rd or 4th day. Maybe the donation is making E so strong that # widens.

E speeds up while increasing Fe2. Which we don’t want. Want to slow down retain electrolytes calcium. While folate cycle gets back and running. We want glycine now. I notice in times past when in alkalosis, electrolyte wasting- yes glycine’s, folates speed you up at first. But once you get electorlytes in k, mg, na- body slows itself down. The glycine histidne so big.

I think when system gets comfortable there you get calcium in.

I think I really have to listen to Gbold’s electrolyte protocol right now.

Sure I have iron, hormone issues. These can be dealt with. Right now. You gotta get on your feet. It’s bad right now. Can’t be on back to this degree much longer.

 

[Hidden49]

Copper is really tough right now. I have ghk-cu on hand. I basically see cu/ estrogen as what absorbs unbound fe2- converting it to fe3. And then body needs to use the fe3. But that speeds the body up.

Hence why a lot of people experience racing brain with copper.

I’ve decided to stop basically everything. I have Yasko’s multivitamin. Will give that and follow Wilson’s 4 lows approach mainly small amount of zinc with about 1000mg ca 500mag. Also will give the lifewave patches ghk/ahk.

I need to slow down system dramatically. E + cu + methylation been speeding me up way too much. Body can’t do anything without electrolytes and I’m just going more and more depleted.

Yeah if you are near a four lows pattern then I would avoid copper, you need good potassium levels to utilise copper properly. I find if I don’t eat enough cooked veg the day I’m using copper then copper doesn’t work for me properly, glycine with mag also seems to really help me utilise the copper properly. I wasn’t able to use copper properly until the last few months as before I had copper toxicity.

I had a health crisis earlier last year that was close to death at certain times. I was also in four lows, every single mineral on my hair test hit rock bottom levels.

Now my potassium levels and NA/K ratio is good, doing Dr Wilson’s diet and eating lots of Cooked vegetables helped me fix that. But I made one massive mistake of completely overdoing carrots and squash while I already had gallbladder issues so I developed bad VA toxicity.

I have read the beginning of your thread and I relate to it a lot, I’ve also had bad heavy metal toxicity iron, copper, mercury, aluminium, arsenic, nickel while having extreme pathogen issues at the same time.

I have the Yasko multi vit too, a year and a half ago I couldn’t tolerate it at all, specifically the small amount of lithium it contained would cause extreme inflammatory reactions in my liver, body and brain that lasted for weeks.

I have now tried the Yasko multi vit again in the last month and can tolerate it now without the extreme issues I had before, but now it just seems the small amount of Vit A it contains is giving me Vit A toxicity symptoms which is really annoying because I can feel the other stuff it contains helps and I am in need of it.

I think phosphatidylcholine/serine can help with slowing things down, b3 as a methyl buffer, gaba supports, l theanine, bcaas all would be helpful.

 

[bruschi11]

Yeah if you are near a four lows pattern then I would avoid copper, you need good potassium levels to utilise copper properly. I find if I don’t eat enough cooked veg the day I’m using copper then copper doesn’t work for me properly, glycine with mag also seems to really help me utilise the copper properly. I wasn’t able to use copper properly until the last few months as before I had copper toxicity.

I had a health crisis earlier last year that was close to death at certain times. I was also in four lows, every single mineral on my hair test hit rock bottom levels.

Now my potassium levels and NA/K ratio is good, doing Dr Wilson’s diet and eating lots of Cooked vegetables helped me fix that. But I made one massive mistake of completely overdoing carrots and squash while I already had gallbladder issues so I developed bad VA toxicity.

I have read the beginning of your thread and I relate to it a lot, I’ve also had bad heavy metal toxicity iron, copper, mercury, aluminium, arsenic, nickel while having extreme pathogen issues at the same time.

I have the Yasko multi vit too, a year and a half ago I couldn’t tolerate it at all, specifically the small amount of lithium it contained would cause extreme inflammatory reactions in my liver, body and brain that lasted for weeks.

I have now tried the Yasko multi vit again in the last month and can tolerate it now without the extreme issues I had before, but now it just seems the small amount of Vit A it contains is giving me Vit A toxicity symptoms which is really annoying because I can feel the other stuff it contains helps and I am in need of it.

I think phosphatidylcholine/serine can help with slowing things down, b3 as a methyl buffer, gaba supports, l theanine, bcaas all would be helpful.

Appreciate the in depth reply. Had no idea you were that sick. I’ve been in mineral balancing world 5 years now. I just did my 21st or 22nd htma lol. I was always in a calcium shell. The four lows thing always scared the ***t out of me.

But now it’s happening to me. Making me go crazy. Not being able to retain electrolytes is worst thing I’ve experienced in this world. It has happened in non 4 low body chemistries though.

I’m glad you say it. I think magnesium glycine (histidine too) might be first things to address next to potassium. I think these aminos control iron sooo much.

In fall I took similar approach methylation, ghk patch. I was cu toxic though from dumping in the summer. Dumping copper killed methylation. I stopped b2 for a week in midst of that and I literally thought I was dying till I got the b2 back in.

I needed b12 at that time though. I needed the patch. Those didn’t get involved for another couple weeks after. It was incredible what ghk and ahk patches could do at times.

I was thinking copper back then. But honestly I think I was grabbing iron from brain with these aminos.

Thanks for your story. Every 4 lows story counts cuz people get stuck for a long time in that dreaded body chemistry. And it’s usually not as simple as Wilson’s approach.

I’ve heard of people come out with just potassium and salt. Another guy loaded calcium for months w/ some mag k2 D3.

I’m finding some hope the approach here is aminos mag/k.

 

[TheSir]

Have you incorporated TMG for 4L and methylation yet? Lactoferrin could help with the iron issues. I'm working out of 4L too at the moment.

 

[youngsinatra]

How is your liver/gallbladder functioning at the moment?

 

[bruschi11]

Have you incorporated TMG for 4L and methylation yet? Lactoferrin could help with the iron issues. I'm working out of 4L too at the moment.

Lactoferrin good with fe3 issues. Think I’m really more with fe2. Lactoferrin was great a month ago (when I think things were more fe3). I reacted horridly to it the other day. Fe3 protects against fe2.

I’m starting a lot of histidine glycine from the lifewave patches ahk ghk. Might try TMG too I have it.

Starting to think approach needs to be magnesium potassium and work on folate cycle aminos if it’s just the patches for now. Try to get stable and get calcium in zinc.

 

[bruschi11]

How is your liver/gallbladder functioning at the moment?

INCREDIBLE. Bile flow great since starting E, and we know bile does bind iron. Seems as I go E deficient bile stops working as well.

Another reason to stay away from copper.

 

[Deadpool]

INCREDIBLE. Bile flow great since starting E, and we know bile does bind iron. Seems as I go E deficient bile stops working as well.

Another reason to stay away from copper.

E as in Estrogen or Vitamin E?