Intelligence Expected To Decline In Higher IQ And Rise In Lower IQ People

[mujuro]

>Blacks score lower than whites: genes, of course

>Whites score lower than Jews: I don't believe in numbers. Unfair advantage. Fake news.

I implied no such thing. I like the pigeon-holing going on here. It must mean I share the man's critiques on Jews simply for sharing the video. I can dislike what I hear and continue to watch something. That's how you form a rigorous position on issues. The discussion was about IQ metrics and SAT scores being flawed measures of intelligence, and this was the nearest relevant item my brain could recall. I found it interesting.

 

[lvysaur]

I implied no such thing.

Fair enough. It is the case that a large portion of that video's intended audience does hold those contradictory views, and I stereotyped you as one of them.

 

[DaveFoster]

Where do see enviromental complexity increasing Dave?

Modern cities, information technology, and the hustle of modern life. As Peaters, we need to read through 1,000 labels just to find a suitable foodstuff. Not harder, but it's definitely more mentally taxing.

Paleolithic people had larger heads than neolithic or modern people (and smaller bodies than modern people as well). Cranial capacity:body mass ratio may be correlated with IQ. I strongly suspect that it's correlated with spatial IQ, but not with verbal, mathematical, logical skills.

If true, it means all of human history is a dumbing down of humans and a smarting up of societies.

I'd agree with that, but one must not separate the society from the person. People do make up society, after all, and individual decisions still play a primary role (actually the only role in the literal sense.)

>Blacks score lower than whites: genes, of course

>Whites score lower than Jews: I don't believe in numbers. Unfair advantage. Fake news.

On aggregate, Ashkenazi Jews are ridiculously intelligent, long-lived, and successful as a group. They have superior levels of creativity and verbal intelligence; I haven't read into comparisons recently, but they probably possess the highest level of verbal intelligence of any measurable group.

 

[Constatine]

Modern cities, information technology, and the hustle of modern life. As Peaters, we need to read through 1,000 labels just to find a suitable foodstuff. Not harder, but it's definitely more mentally taxing.

I'd agree with that, but one must not separate the society from the person. People do make up society, after all, and individual decisions still play a primary role (actually the only role in the literal sense.)

On aggregate, Ashkenazi Jews are ridiculously intelligent, long-lived, and successful as a group. They have superior levels of creativity and verbal intelligence; I haven't read into comparisons recently, but they probably possess the highest level of verbal intelligence of any measurable group.

I must disagree that modern day life creates a more complex environment (at least in terms of mental stimulation). There have been studies showing that even just being in a rich natural environment (like a forest) is very mentally stimulating. I believe there was a study showing that walking was more mentally stimulating than intense mental work (though I cannot find this study right now). There is of course the issue of what parts of the brain was highly stimulated and which parts of the brain contributes to IQ. But overall in terms of 'how much the brain lights up' the modern day environment does not compare to a more natural environment, despite increased mental tasks.


Why do you suppose the Jewish people are so healthy? Their diet does seem quite healthy, as well as some of their habits. The beneficial effects of their lifestyle are likely amplified with each new generation (hence why they are in general a smart population). Maybe we can learn a thing or two from them.

 

[haidut]

On aggregate, Ashkenazi Jews are ridiculously intelligent, long-lived, and successful as a group. They have superior levels of creativity and verbal intelligence; I haven't read into comparisons recently, but they probably possess the highest level of verbal intelligence of any measurable group

A few clarifications on that statement. That group does seem to have exceptional levels of verbal/numerical intelligence and be very successful professionally. Not so sure about the creativity as that is hard to measure in any objective way. Also, where did you get the data on long-lived? I am pretty sure that group has very high rate of hereditary conditions including hemophilia, hemochromatosis, and a few cancers linked to these blood disorders.

 

[DaveFoster]

I must disagree that modern day life creates a more complex environment (at least in terms of mental stimulation). There have been studies showing that even just being in a rich natural environment (like a forest) is very mentally stimulating. I believe there was a study showing that walking was more mentally stimulating than intense mental work (though I cannot find this study right now). There is of course the issue of what parts of the brain was highly stimulated and which parts of the brain contributes to IQ. But overall in terms of 'how much the brain lights up' the modern day environment does not compare to a more natural environment, despite increased mental tasks.


Why do you suppose the Jewish people are so healthy? Their diet does seem quite healthy, as well as some of their habits. The beneficial effects of their lifestyle are likely amplified with each new generation (hence why they are in general a smart population). Maybe we can learn a thing or two from them.

Definitely community; Jewish culture is very community-oriented, whether religiously, culturally, or academically. Jewish studies courses, religious events and practices, synagogues, and even the mainstream media (which many blame for consumerism and other aspects of mental illness in the West) reflects the people who run it; the majority of them are Jews. If I went to Italy and said, "Wow, these Italians are sure happy and healthy," it shouldn't surprise, as they're in their own country. If you moved a resident of Italy to China, or vice versa, there's an element of culture shock.

Western European culture (and by extension that of the United States) is largely built on liberalism and legalism (or more appropriately recognition of property): the social contract, individual liberty, free speech, decentralized policing, common law (for example noblesse oblige), charity, property rights, etc. A lot of this is based in Judeo-Christian tradition (which admittedly has little to do with Jewish culture at all; the Romanized so as to reflect Western, (at that time, Roman) values.)

I think questioning of Western institutions, particularly the media, academia, and government paints a clear picture of the systematic decline of historically successful social roles (father (or provider), mother (or nurturer), child (or seeker, one who emulates his or her parents), tradesman (one who takes pride in their craft), etc.) in place of an ambiguous nothingness that reflects deconstructionism. In essence, a lack of identity lies at the root of dysphoria, unhappiness, and a lack of purpose (as happiness can only exist in tandem with a sense of purpose). I suffer from a lack of identity, and we're told to suppress our impulses, thoughts, desires, and passions for fear of offense! Well, I'd rather see these expressed in full by all people and dealt with on those terms, rather than this covered, emaciated expression that seeks only to please and affirm what's already acceptable; it's a worldview driven by fear, and I know what it's like because I'm afraid as well.

 

[mujuro]

Fair enough. It is the case that a large portion of that video's intended audience does hold those contradictory views, and I stereotyped you as one of them.

It was my fault too. I should have clarified better. It was silly to post such a video without explaining why. I just find antagonizers like that so interesting to watch.

 

[Constatine]

Definitely community; Jewish culture is very community-oriented, whether religiously, culturally, or academically. Jewish studies courses, religious events and practices, synagogues, and even the mainstream media (which many blame for consumerism and other aspects of mental illness in the West) reflects the people who run it; the majority of them are Jews. If I went to Italy and said, "Wow, these Italians are sure happy and healthy," it shouldn't surprise, as they're in their own country. If you moved a resident of Italy to China, or vice versa, there's an element of culture shock.

Western European culture (and by extension that of the United States) is largely built on liberalism and legalism (or more appropriately recognition of property): the social contract, individual liberty, free speech, decentralized policing, common law (for example noblesse oblige), charity, property rights, etc. A lot of this is based in Judeo-Christian tradition (which admittedly has little to do with Jewish culture at all; the Romanized so as to reflect Western, (at that time, Roman) values.)

I think questioning of Western institutions, particularly the media, academia, and government paints a clear picture of the systematic decline of historically successful social roles (father (or provider), mother (or nurturer), child (or seeker, one who emulates his or her parents), tradesman (one who takes pride in their craft), etc.) in place of an ambiguous nothingness that reflects deconstructionism. In essence, a lack of identity lies at the root of dysphoria, unhappiness, and a lack of purpose (as happiness can only exist in tandem with a sense of purpose). I suffer from a lack of identity, and we're told to suppress our impulses, thoughts, desires, and passions for fear of offense! Well, I'd rather see these expressed in full by all people and dealt with on those terms, rather than this covered, emaciated expression that seeks only to please and affirm what's already acceptable; it's a worldview driven by fear, and I know what it's like because I'm afraid as well.

Its interesting that you associate a lack of identity, purpose, and general well being with deconstructionism. It is certainly a school of thought that can inflict a lot of harm if misused. Surprisingly classic deconstructionism is very dogmatic and akin to rationalism. A lack of identity can cause dysphoria but dysphoria can also (and maybe even more likely) cause a lack of identity. Identity seems to be a function of the reward system (which is inherently social). Have you tried resetting your reward system? Basically just do nothing (literally nothing but take care of yourself) for a few days.

 

[DaveFoster]

Its interesting that you associate a lack of identity, purpose, and general well being with deconstructionism. It is certainly a school of thought that can inflict a lot of harm if misused. Surprisingly classic deconstructionism is very dogmatic and akin to rationalism. A lack of identity can cause dysphoria but dysphoria can also (and maybe even more likely) cause a lack of identity. Identity seems to be a function of the reward system (which is inherently social). Have you tried resetting your reward system? Basically just do nothing (literally nothing but take care of yourself) for a few days.

No, but I've done that with success. I appreciate your posts on NoFap; not masturbating + mirtazapine makes my mood double-plus good. I'm having some mood swings, and I think the former activities are exacerbating them, so I'm going to talk to my psych about bipolar diagnosis.

 

[DaveFoster]

A few clarifications on that statement. That group does seem to have exceptional levels of verbal/numerical intelligence and be very successful professionally. Not so sure about the creativity as that is hard to measure in any objective way. Also, where did you get the data on long-lived? I am pretty sure that group has very high rate of hereditary conditions including hemophilia, hemochromatosis, and a few cancers linked to these blood disorders.

May You Live Until 120: DNA Uncovers Secrets To Jewish Longevity

You're correct; they're not necessarily healthy, but they have a proportionally high number of centenarians and longer-lived people compared to non Jews.

"Survey data, 19% of U.S. Jews are over 65, and 9% are older than 75.

Page 18 of the following report puts the 2010 (the Jewish survey was in 2011) 65+ year-olds at around 11% of the population.

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2014/demo/p23-212.pdf

 

[haidut]

May You Live Until 120: DNA Uncovers Secrets To Jewish Longevity

You're correct; they're not necessarily healthy, but they have a proportionally high number of centenarians and longer-lived people compared to non Jews.

"Survey data, 19% of U.S. Jews are over 65, and 9% are older than 75.

Page 18 of the following report puts the 2010 (the Jewish survey was in 2011) 65+ year-olds at around 11% of the population.

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2014/demo/p23-212.pdf

OK, thanks. Maybe their strong family ties override the higher risk of diseases that run in the family.

 

[Constatine]

OK, thanks. Maybe their strong family ties override the higher risk of diseases that run in the family.

Would social interaction really be that huge of a factor?

 

[haidut]

Would social interaction really be that huge of a factor?

If it gives you a reason to live - probably. The long term survival of heart attacks and strokes has recently been tied to "having a reason to live" for a lack of a better term. If you Google it the study will come up. Neither diet, nor drugs had nearly as much impact as the sense of purpose and desire to be helpful for others. Except aspirin of course, which most people forgot to take on a regular basis

 

[Constatine]

If it gives you a reason to live - probably. The long term survival of heart attacks and strokes has recently been tied to "having a reason to live" for a lack of a better term. If you Google it the study will come up. Neither diet, nor drugs had nearly as much impact as the sense of purpose and desire to be helpful for others. Except aspirin of course, which most people forgot to take on a regular basis :)

Wow. This is likely why twins and married couples tend to live longer I guess. Luckily I am a twin

 

[Drareg]

Modern cities, information technology, and the hustle of modern life. As Peaters, we need to read through 1,000 labels just to find a suitable foodstuff. Not harder, but it's definitely more mentally taxing.

I'd agree with that, but one must not separate the society from the person. People do make up society, after all, and individual decisions still play a primary role (actually the only role in the literal sense.)

On aggregate, Ashkenazi Jews are ridiculously intelligent, long-lived, and successful as a group. They have superior levels of creativity and verbal intelligence; I haven't read into comparisons recently, but they probably possess the highest level of verbal intelligence of any measurable group.

I think it's what we subscribe to,what's our meaning,letting others influence that too much is toxic. If
we don't subscribe to everything you can have a decent life,use the advantages of modern times to give yourself more time,don't let it take your time by using the power of FOMO.
Government do the same thing,they prime us for breeding children to keep the taxes rolling in,mundane work that gets the labeled "career" and pop culture styled activities, do all of these together and your time is gone,nothing terribly wrong with any of this in moderation but it takes energy and time from humans.

 

[Constatine]

I think it's what we subscribe to,what's our meaning,letting others influence that too much is toxic. If
we don't subscribe to everything you can have a decent life,use the advantages of modern times to give yourself more time,don't let it take your time by using the power of FOMO.
Government do the same thing,they prime us for breeding children to keep the taxes rolling in,mundane work that gets the labeled "career" and pop culture styled activities, do all of these together and your time is gone,nothing terribly wrong with any of this in moderation but it takes energy and time from humans.

I agree that the modern day world can be very advantageous if one knew how to use it. The key is to balance a more natural lifestyle with a modern lifestyle and reap the perks of both. A natural lifestyle provides health and happiness while a modern lifestyle provides convenience, education, novelty, and opportunity.

 

[Badger]

"Imagine the state of generations 30 years from now. A generation of Forest Gumps." Somebody did, but imagined much worse than Forest Gump. It's to be seen in a movie called "Idiocracy." Gump would have been a genius in such a place.

 

[Waynish]

Hmmmm... Aren't outliers 'outliers' partially because they're less predictable? I haven't gone through the study, but I would think its design might not account for the mechanisms and possibilities for what make people way above/below the average IQ.

 

[DawN]

Definitely community; Jewish culture is very community-oriented, whether religiously, culturally, or academically. Jewish studies courses, religious events and practices, synagogues, and even the mainstream media (which many blame for consumerism and other aspects of mental illness in the West) reflects the people who run it; the majority of them are Jews. If I went to Italy and said, "Wow, these Italians are sure happy and healthy," it shouldn't surprise, as they're in their own country. If you moved a resident of Italy to China, or vice versa, there's an element of culture shock.

Western European culture (and by extension that of the United States) is largely built on liberalism and legalism (or more appropriately recognition of property): the social contract, individual liberty, free speech, decentralized policing, common law (for example noblesse oblige), charity, property rights, etc. A lot of this is based in Judeo-Christian tradition (which admittedly has little to do with Jewish culture at all; the Romanized so as to reflect Western, (at that time, Roman) values.)

I think questioning of Western institutions, particularly the media, academia, and government paints a clear picture of the systematic decline of historically successful social roles (father (or provider), mother (or nurturer), child (or seeker, one who emulates his or her parents), tradesman (one who takes pride in their craft), etc.) in place of an ambiguous nothingness that reflects deconstructionism. In essence, a lack of identity lies at the root of dysphoria, unhappiness, and a lack of purpose (as happiness can only exist in tandem with a sense of purpose). I suffer from a lack of identity, and we're told to suppress our impulses, thoughts, desires, and passions for fear of offense! Well, I'd rather see these expressed in full by all people and dealt with on those terms, rather than this covered, emaciated expression that seeks only to please and affirm what's already acceptable; it's a worldview driven by fear, and I know what it's like because I'm afraid as well.

I have to thank you for this statement: you spoke my soul...

 

[lvysaur]

There was a study a while back which showed IQ was declining among ethnic Norwegians (or maybe some other Scandi country)

Of course intelligence is far, far more than IQ, but this shows IQ itself is far from "mostly genetic". And IQ declines are a separate issue from immigration, as native populaces are declining in the 1st world.

My suspicion is that "urgency" decreases intelligence, possibly including IQ. I also think that people can score highly on IQ by simply activating the "urgency" or "stress" pathways to ace a test, by expending excess energy in that moment. But they pay the price for it later on in the day.

One unspoken topic is that the "urgency", "quickness", or "nervousness" of society has been on a steady upward swing for over a century. Back in the 1900s, when westerners were moving from rural to urban habitats, scientists were saying something to the effect of "living in cities is coinciding with an increase in nervous energy, likely ruining health".

You can see this if you compare media from the 1960s all the way up to the 2010s. The earlier you go, the more paced and steady the TV/films are. It's gotten especially bad in the last 10 years, today's children's cartoons just jam-pack loads of action and events into a 22 minute time slot, making the viewing experience inherently frantic and stress-inducing. Add social media into this (reddit/instagram/tiktok/4chan/facebook) to compound the problem.

One thing I've noticed is that public television is the antithesis of this--it's always slowly paced, calm and relaxing, and matter of fact. Non-American broadcasts (NHK, BBC, etc) also tend to be slower paced. But private sector American programming, which caters to our population's desires, is usually sensationalized, deliberately anger-inducing, overdramatic, overproduced, and highly choreographed.