HSV2

[iLoveSugar]

There is obviously no cute for the herpes virus. There's also very little info on the web regarding Ray Peat and this topic.

Reoccurring herpes virus symptoms. Stress aggravstes it and brings it out. How can one keep the virus at bay so it's not constantly appearing?

 

[haidut]

There is obviously no cute for the herpes virus. There's also very little info on the web regarding Ray Peat and this topic.

Reoccurring herpes virus symptoms. Stress aggravstes it and brings it out. How can one keep the virus at bay so it's not constantly appearing?

I posted a thread some time ago showing that herpes reactivation is the main reason for the malaise experienced by people with chronic health issues. Many of the symptoms you describe are possibly linked to a high herpes viral count, which I think you mentioned a few times has been confirmed by blood tests.
Self-reported Health Much Better Predictor Than "objective" Tests

Anti-serotonin drugs are pretty effective against viruses, including herpes. Emodin, adamantane derivatives, methylene blue, progesterone, and DHEA also have extensive line of evidence against viruses and herpes specifically. In addition, they all seem to restore host immunity to normal, which keeps the virus at bay.

 

[haidut]

Forgot to add a few studies on MB and herpes. It looks like it can be completely inactivated by using about 5mg MB in a single dose, taking some vitamin C (maybe 500mg, to reduce the MB), and then exposing yourself to bright sunlight for a few minutes. Shirtless will probably be best, and I would stay out in the sun for as long as it is comfortable. The longer the exposure the stronger the effect even though a few minutes is enough according to the studies.
Infection cycle of herpes viruses after photodynamic treatment with methylene blue and light. - PubMed - NCBI
Mechanisms of photodynamic inactivation of herpes simplex viruses: comparison between methylene blue, light plus electricity, and hematoporhyrin plus light.
SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class journal research
Photodynamic therapy for herpes simplex: A critical review - ScienceDirect
Unusual treatments for herpesvirus infections. I. Herpes simplex - ScienceDirect

 

[Seeweed65]

Thanks for the info above. @haidut do you think using a couple of drops of Oxidal over a longer period of time could have the same affect as one dose at 5mg? Also do you think it's possible for MB or emodin to inactivate within the body even when a outbreak is not present?

 

[iLoveSugar]

So in a nutshell, in a very bad case of reoccruent and non stop viral infections, what combo would be worth trying first?

 

[haidut]

Thanks for the info above. @haidut do you think using a couple of drops of Oxidal over a longer period of time could have the same affect as one dose at 5mg? Also do you think it's possible for MB or emodin to inactivate within the body even when a outbreak is not present?

MB builds up over time, so 1-2 drops over a few days will probably reach that 1uM concentration. I think for long term use 1-2 drops is best, which is also what the lifespan studies found as well.

 

[haidut]

So in a nutshell, in a very bad case of reoccruent and non stop viral infections, what combo would be worth trying first?

I would try the MB, vitamin C and sunlight combo first. Also, I sent you a study describing a few other remedies so those can be tried as well.
Here is the list of herpes treatments for people who are interested. The MB and light is also mentioned.

 

[Soren]

It looks like it can be completely inactivated by using about 5mg MB in a single dose, taking some vitamin C (maybe 500mg, to reduce the MB), and then exposing yourself to bright sunlight for a few minutes.

What does it mean to completely inactivate a virus?

Does that mean it is rendered completely inert never to return? Or is it just severely weakened and is unlikely to return. Obviously if one is in a weakened or stressed state again virus' can return. I guess my question is could this one off treatment with MB be a long term solution?

I'm very curious about this treatment with regards to neuro-degenerative diseases. One of the studies you referenced showed that MB improved the removal of HSV from the brain and other organs in mice.

There some evidence that viral infections such as HSV are a contributing factor to brain diseases.

Also do you have any opinion on the vaccine's that are in development for HSV? I think the most promising ones are based on some form of t-cell activation.

Also given the high amount of MB in the 5mg treatment I assume taking a serotonin antagonist such as metergoline, or cypro would be prudent. Do you have any recommendations on dose?

Many thanks

 

[haidut]

What does it mean to completely inactivate a virus?

Does that mean it is rendered completely inert never to return? Or is it just severely weakened and is unlikely to return. Obviously if one is in a weakened or stressed state again virus' can return. I guess my question is could this one off treatment with MB be a long term solution?

I'm very curious about this treatment with regards to neuro-degenerative diseases. One of the studies you referenced showed that MB improved the removal of HSV from the brain and other organs in mice.

There some evidence that viral infections such as HSV are a contributing factor to brain diseases.

Also do you have any opinion on the vaccine's that are in development for HSV? I think the most promising ones are based on some form of t-cell activation.

Also given the high amount of MB in the 5mg treatment I assume taking a serotonin antagonist such as metergoline, or cypro would be prudent. Do you have any recommendations on dose?

Many thanks

There is significant evidence that viral load is simply a biomarker of stress. Given that HSV is a chronic viral infection that most people have for life, I doubt is can be eradicated for good but it can be kept at a level where it is not an issue. Cells can produce "viruses" on demand when severely stressed, so the MB is probably not so much removing the virus as it is improving metabolism and this reduces viral synthesis and improves elimination by WBC.

 

[Soren]

There is significant evidence that viral load is simply a biomarker of stress. Given that HSV is a chronic viral infection that most people have for life, I doubt is can be eradicated for good but it can be kept at a level where it is not an issue. Cells can produce "viruses" on demand when severely stressed, so the MB is probably not so much removing the virus as it is improving metabolism and this reduces viral synthesis and improves elimination by WBC.

Hmm if viral load is a marker of stress and that cells can produce "viruses" when stressed one could make the argument that many of the things we consider viruses are just reactions to the cells under stress.

I wonder if the combination of MB with red/Near-Infrared light shined directly on the entirety of the spinal column would have a strong synergistic effect at combating HSV.

If the virus "hides" in the nerves/spinal column and it is saturated in red light and MB I would think there is no way for it to "escape" if all the cells are saturated in string red and near infrared light perhaps it can be fully eliminated. I think some HSV treatments aim to "wake the virus" and then kill it with strong anti-virals. Perhaps red light and MB achieve the same effect beavsue it essentially can't hide.

I think there must be somewhat of a tipping point. If a virus is restricted from replicating for a long period of time there must arrive a point where it dies off.

Just a theory.

 

[Soren]

I guess it would also mean that a lot of the tests for viruses are bunk?

How can you test for the antibodies of a virus f those same antibodies are elevated in one of 1000 different diseases. Is there a specific antibody for every type of virus?

 

[haidut]

I guess it would also mean that a lot of the tests for viruses are bunk?

How can you test for the antibodies of a virus f those same antibodies are elevated in one of 1000 different diseases. Is there a specific antibody for every type of virus?

I don't think they are bunk but more of an indication of level of stress exposure. Viruses are simply toxic byproducts and possibly a signal a cell uses to warn its neighbors and the organism of bad environmental conditions as well as a call for help of sorts. The fact that viral infections are often relieved by pro-metabolic chemicals like thyroid, progesterone, MB, naicinamide, etc (especially when combined with glucose) suggests the cell simply needs more resources to cope with the stress and there is no need for any virus "killing" approaches. Once again, it seems the virus is just a sign/symptom and the symptomatic treatment approach has been consistently shown to not only not help but often worsen the situation.
@burtlancast and @LeVere can provide more info on the "virus as a sign of stress" paradigm, especially in the context of HIV.

 

[Soren]

I don't think they are bunk but more of an indication of level of stress exposure. Viruses are simply toxic byproducts and possibly a signal a cell uses to warn its neighbors and the organism of bad environmental conditions as well as a call for help of sorts. The fact that viral infections are often relieved by pro-metabolic chemicals like thyroid, progesterone, MB, naicinamide, etc (especially when combined with glucose) suggests the cell simply needs more resources to cope with the stress and there is no need for any virus "killing" approaches. Once again, it seems the virus is just a sign/symptom and the symptomatic treatment approach has been consistently shown to not only not help but often worsen the situation.
@burtlancast and @LeVere can provide more info on the "virus as a sign of stress" paradigm, especially in the context of HIV.

Thanks Haidut. As I said in my previous post there is some evidence that chronic HSV 1 and 2 infection are involved in neuro-degenerative diseases but it seems that they might just be a symptom rather than an underlying cause.

A body under metabolic stress is more likely to have a high viral load and as such mainstream medicine makes the assumption that the virus is the primary cause rather than a symptom of a malfunctioning metabolism.

I found a case study on two individuals with severe chronic hsv1 infections treated with four to five sessions of 660nm of red light and they remained symptom free for the entire length of the follow up of 17 months!

Recurrent herpes simplex infections: laser therapy as a potential tool for long-term successful treatment

@burtlancast and @LeVere would love to hear your thoughts on HSV and chronic viral infections in general. Also would be nice to have a sanity check if my theory about leaving the virus "nowhere to hide" with red light and MB has any merit or if it is just sloppy thinking. I'm also still a little confused by the terminology of "inactivated" according to what I can find online it means that a virus can no longer replicate, would that not mean that it is essentially dead? I guess this would not apply to the cells where a virus might be "hiding" but I would think MB would make its way into those cells also. Again very laymen in my understanding on this one, not familiar enough with the terminology to make this very clear and concise.

 

[haidut]

Thanks Haidut. As I said in my previous post there is some evidence that chronic HSV 1 and 2 infection are involved in neuro-degenerative diseases but it seems that they might just be a symptom rather than an underlying cause.

A body under metabolic stress is more likely to have a high viral load and as such mainstream medicine makes the assumption that the virus is the primary cause rather than a symptom of a malfunctioning metabolism.

I found a case study on two individuals with severe chronic hsv1 infections treated with four to five sessions of 660nm of red light and they remained symptom free for the entire length of the follow up of 17 months!

Recurrent herpes simplex infections: laser therapy as a potential tool for long-term successful treatment

Good find. I think adding MB would make this approach even more effective.

 

[Kartoffel]

Ray said:

"The herpes virus can actually be seen and analyzed, the retroviruses are normal components of our cells, and the infectious agent hasn't been isolated. There is some evidence that our cells are able to clear out viruses similar to herpes, and about 60 years ago the Wellcome company published results in mice using several simple chemicals; I think GHB, camphoric acid and copper camphorate were among them."​

 

[Soren]

Ray said:

"The herpes virus can actually be seen and analyzed, the retroviruses are normal components of our cells, and the infectious agent hasn't been isolated. There is some evidence that our cells are able to clear out viruses similar to herpes, and about 60 years ago the Wellcome company published results in mice using several simple chemicals; I think GHB, camphoric acid and copper camphorate were among them."​

If the retroviruses are normal components of our cells does that mean they are created by our own bodies under stress? Or does the infectious agent uses them as material to replicate?

What is copper camphorate? Never heard of it. I know that copper has been shown to be a good antibiotic and anti-viral.

Isn't GHB a form of ecstasy commonly known as "the date rape drug".

Do you know what evidence Ray is referring to and the study from the Wellcome company?

 

[Peatogenic]

bump

 

[Peatogenic]

I don't think they are bunk but more of an indication of level of stress exposure. Viruses are simply toxic byproducts and possibly a signal a cell uses to warn its neighbors and the organism of bad environmental conditions as well as a call for help of sorts. The fact that viral infections are often relieved by pro-metabolic chemicals like thyroid, progesterone, MB, naicinamide, etc (especially when combined with glucose) suggests the cell simply needs more resources to cope with the stress and there is no need for any virus "killing" approaches. Once again, it seems the virus is just a sign/symptom and the symptomatic treatment approach has been consistently shown to not only not help but often worsen the situation.
@burtlancast and @LeVere can provide more info on the "virus as a sign of stress" paradigm, especially in the context of HIV.

Haidut, this is fascinating. That viruses don't need a cure, in a manner of speaking. I don't know how well versed you are on the topic, but do you know how this applies to viral "shedding"? If someone is shedding, does this mean the virus has been reactivated and no longer dormant? (It's also the only time a virus is infectious, physical outbreaks or not).

 

[haidut]

Haidut, this is fascinating. That viruses don't need a cure, in a manner of speaking. I don't know how well versed you are on the topic, but do you know how this applies to viral "shedding"? If someone is shedding, does this mean the virus has been reactivated and no longer dormant? (It's also the only time a virus is infectious, physical outbreaks or not).

You should ask the two people I tagged, as they are more familiar with the topic. I don't think viral shedding is anything special that warrants attention form a treatment point. If the organism has enough energy reserves, enough cholesterol, FFA are kept in check, and there is proper DHEA/progesterone synthesis, etc viruses are not a problem.
Higher levels of cholesterol in cells block viral infection