Hair loss ThinkTank. Passionate and or Intellectual People

[rr1]

I struggle to believe most people here have really tried the simple things like thyroid, vitamin D, calcium, sunlight, liver and oysters, reduce stress etc. The basic things can NOT be understated. For 2 whole years I didn't use thyroid supplementation, I barely ate liver/oysters, didn't have a great circadian rhythm/sunlight and more. Even just remembering to get in my daily 5000 steps(minimum). But as soon as I started focusing on these basic things, my hair is back to being so thick it's actually getting annoying. Posture and muscle tightness is also a big part. You should be able to comfortably get into a deep squat and work from the feet all the way up to the neck and scalp perimeter, stretching and taking care any tight muscles. Progesterone, adequate magnesium and vit k have helped a lot with this. And needless to say, without perfect gut health dont even think about regrowth, so the carrot salad is a must.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

There was a study posted in one of the Cistanche threads showing it increases 5a-reductase 2 but lowered 5a-reductase 1 by a percentage which could be why you're getting brain fog.

I wouldn't expect it to slow down hair loss then, since supposedly inhibiting 5AR1 does nothing and increasing 5AR2 should make it worse.

 

[GenericName86]

I wouldn't expect it to slow down hair loss then, since supposedly inhibiting 5AR1 does nothing and increasing 5AR2 should make it worse.

There was a study showing it helped against hair loss however it was in conjunction with Laminaria japonica. My scalp has felt pretty good when using Cistanche, no itching or increased shedding but I notice the increase in androgens.

I'm currently using T3 at the moment and feel it's working pretty well, scalp feels good and "loose" and my hair looks better. Still early days though and there's a lot more I could be doing but I want to take certain things once at a time and judge the effectiveness before throwing multiple things at it.

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

I struggle to believe most people here have really tried the simple things like thyroid, vitamin D, calcium, sunlight, liver and oysters, reduce stress etc. The basic things can NOT be understated. For 2 whole years I didn't use thyroid supplementation, I barely ate liver/oysters, didn't have a great circadian rhythm/sunlight and more. Even just remembering to get in my daily 5000 steps(minimum). But as soon as I started focusing on these basic things, my hair is back to being so thick it's actually getting annoying. Posture and muscle tightness is also a big part. You should be able to comfortably get into a deep squat and work from the feet all the way up to the neck and scalp perimeter, stretching and taking care any tight muscles. Progesterone, adequate magnesium and vit k have helped a lot with this. And needless to say, without perfect gut health dont even think about regrowth, so the carrot salad is a must.

Exactly - most people don't address these issues.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

I struggle to believe most people here have really tried the simple things like thyroid, vitamin D, calcium, sunlight, liver and oysters, reduce stress etc. The basic things can NOT be understated. For 2 whole years I didn't use thyroid supplementation, I barely ate liver/oysters, didn't have a great circadian rhythm/sunlight and more. Even just remembering to get in my daily 5000 steps(minimum). But as soon as I started focusing on these basic things, my hair is back to being so thick it's actually getting annoying. Posture and muscle tightness is also a big part. You should be able to comfortably get into a deep squat and work from the feet all the way up to the neck and scalp perimeter, stretching and taking care any tight muscles. Progesterone, adequate magnesium and vit k have helped a lot with this. And needless to say, without perfect gut health dont even think about regrowth, so the carrot salad is a must.

Did you have ANDROGENIC ALOPECIA ?

The term 'hair loss' is way too ambiguous, there are many different kinds of hair loss and for instance telogen effluvium from low carbing could easily be improved from something like that.

On the other hand, none of those things will help against AGA. If anything from my experience, they accelerate it. Feeling better = more androgens = more baldness

 

[rr1]

Did you have ANDROGENIC ALOPECIA ?

The term 'hair loss' is way too ambiguous, there are many different kinds of hair loss and for instance telogen effluvium from low carbing could easily be improved from something like that.

On the other hand, none of those things will help against AGA. If anything from my experience, they accelerate it. Feeling better = more androgens = more baldness

I don't like the term androgenic alopecia. I just had the normal male patterned baldness, with receding temples, bald spot at crown and overall thinner. I believe they are the same condition, and this telogen effluvium you mention is what usually kick-starts the MPB from what I've seen.

 

[thefool]

What causes fibrosis and the whole cascade is one question and androgens are certainly involved, but I believe I can proof that reversing fibrosis (a task that is almost impossible even with medication) is sufficient to regrow all the hair for at least some. IMO it's likely that it's fibrosis that causes people to at least STAY bald after there DHT and free T gets lower with age.

Why am I saying this?

When I started massaging, I started creating cracks in my fibrotic scalp. In these cracks I regrew hair, but nowhere else. Naturally I reached out to some people, and some have reported the same. I even have convincing pictures of one guy who basically regrew hair along a grid scheme. And another one of a guy reversing 3 norwoods by restoring an insane amount of skin elasticity (=absence of fibrosis) by massaging.

So what is happening on those cracks? Well, thats where the fibrosis is completely broken up, but only there.

Reverse fibrosis = have hair. The rest doesn't matter that much, if at all (for some, or all).

 

[Mufasa]

What is you guys, morning and afternoon temperature and heart rate?

Is there anyone here that has still hair loss while the temps and pulse are in the perfect range, all the time, for say at least a year?

 

[GorillaHead]

You know one thing i noticed in almost every single bald person I have seen is there are moles on the scalp in higher quantity and larger size.
It may not be unreasonable to beleive there is a correlation between them.

 

[Summer]

What is you guys, morning and afternoon temperature and heart rate?

Is there anyone here that has still hair loss while the temps and pulse are in the perfect range, all the time, for say at least a year?

You know one thing i noticed in almost every single bald person I have seen is there are moles on the scalp in higher quantity and larger size.
It may not be unreasonable to beleive there is a correlation between them.

I can’t say I’ve noticed this but if it’s true, isn’t that related to high estrogen?

 

[hunchoz]

if your balding, you should eat less animal protein except broth/gelatin . higher fat is good. male baldness means poor circulation and poor kidney function. animal protein will only make it worse. the toxins in the body have to be dealt with first so your kidneys can take a break. then you need to make the scalp bleed slightly to dissolve fibrosis . potassium and arginine for blood flow but not from supplements and natural calcium source will help. also homemade vinegar or yeast have digestive enzymes that can also break up fibrosis.

 

[ilhanxx]

poor people who can not reach meaty food, have less aga

 

[ilhanxx]

there is not any option except minox, aga is related poor heart function

 

[Jack Earth]

Awesome. G

i dont use fin. I said i used fin. But i havent used fin over than a year. The ***t doesnt work.

Ok I see I probably was reading an older post of yours.

 

[Jack Earth]

What causes fibrosis and the whole cascade is one question and androgens are certainly involved, but I believe I can proof that reversing fibrosis (a task that is almost impossible even with medication) is sufficient to regrow all the hair for at least some. IMO it's likely that it's fibrosis that causes people to at least STAY bald after there DHT and free T gets lower with age.

Why am I saying this?

When I started massaging, I started creating cracks in my fibrotic scalp. In these cracks I regrew hair, but nowhere else. Naturally I reached out to some people, and some have reported the same. I even have convincing pictures of one guy who basically regrew hair along a grid scheme. And another one of a guy reversing 3 norwoods by restoring an insane amount of skin elasticity (=absence of fibrosis) by massaging.

So what is happening on those cracks? Well, thats where the fibrosis is completely broken up, but only there.

Reverse fibrosis = have hair. The rest doesn't matter that much, if at all (for some, or all).

A proper scalp massage for 20 minutes is tedious and extremely hard to do which is why people would rather spend few thousand on a red light machine and sit under and just relax than do what's free but strenuous.

I doubt you will find anyone on here (myself included) that did the proper massage for 20 min each day for 7 months.

Rob English also said that sometimes scalp massage is all it takes and hes seen people regrow with this alone, no topicals, no dieting. But in some cases diet and topicals were also needed.

I'm thinking a good idea would be to use the scalp massage rob teaches and combine it with something from here like the elepanto protocol for dealing with fibrosis.

 

[Cymatic]

I know no one likes the genetic theory of hair loss but I will add that anecdotally, I have the exact same balding pattern as my dad and it started at the same age (mine seems to have advanced a couple years faster from looking at photos).

I completely agree that there’s many factors at play here but I think hairloss as a topic of debate creates a perfect storm for the following reasons.

1. There are many reasons someone might be losing their hair.
2. People lose hair at varying rates
3. Regardless of the cause, it takes many weeks/months to determine if the hairloss has been slowed/stopped

For these reasons, it’s understandable that a male suffering from TE because of some health issue assumes they have AGA and thus the tactics that they employed are the fix for AGA when they simply treated their TE.

 

[thefool]

I know no one likes the genetic theory of hair loss but I will add that anecdotally, I have the exact same balding pattern as my dad and it started at the same age (mine seems to have advanced a couple years faster from looking at photos).

I completely agree that there’s many factors at play here but I think hairloss as a topic of debate creates a perfect storm for the following reasons.

1. There are many reasons someone might be losing their hair.
2. People lose hair at varying rates
3. Regardless of the cause, it takes many weeks/months to determine if the hairloss has been slowed/stopped

For these reasons, it’s understandable that a male suffering from TE because of some health issue assumes they have AGA and thus the tactics that they employed are the fix for AGA when they simply treated their TE.

Yeah agree.

Here is my theory on mpb following @ChemHead who says mpb = not enough intrafollicular E opposed to DHT being the main problem (which again outcompetes E in mpb which is why fin works, but teenagers have high tissue E and DHT and thats when we all have hair). So not enough tissue E instead of too much DHT being the problem sets mpb in the context of aging.

I believe AGA comes down to downregulated aromatase in peripheral scalp tissue and upregulated 5ar in peripheral scalp tissue.

Why is it that Luka Doncic or Nikola Jokic work out all day and still are kinda fat and have this meaty, not so muscular look? Guys like that have high natural aromatase expression in their tissues, they have a high threshold for mpb to kick in and a low threshold for things like gyno.

Take me for example, I'm the polar opposite. I stayed ripped during all Covid despite not working out, I basically look like a black guy in terms of physique (who have higher AR expression) without even trying. I am very prone to mpb, and basically cannot get fat/gyno/wide hips.

Now black guys can get away with a higher AR expression because they literally grow almost beard-like hair on their scalps, meaning they need more DHT and less E to grow their hair (even whites need some amount of DHT to grow hair). I think this also explains the common observation that the blonder your hair is, the less DHT you get away with as a white, and the darker and more beard like it is, the more DHT you get away with. Your scalp hair (texture, color) is an indicator of your enzymatic expression in the scalp. Interestingly however, this expression doesn't seem to correlate with enzymatic expressions in other tissues.

So why is it that our skin stops producing all that E?

As we age, we lose the ability to metabolize it before it goes systemic (this is what happens in healthy individuals) so different phenos emerge on how to cope or not cope with that.

Men who keep their hair and stay lean and androgenic have not lost that ability and are the healthiest.

Men who lose their hair and stay lean and androgenic have stopped producing E in their tissues so that it doesn't go systemic. Think guys like Statham, the Picard actor and so on. These men typically age really well (apart from their hair) because they are low E. Upregulated 5ar, downregulated aromatase.

Men who keep their hair and do not stay androgenic/ get gyno/ fat etc. For some reason their tissues keep producing E despite their bodies not being able to metabolize it before it goes systemic anymore. They tend to age more female like (their faces and body compositions collapse), but keep their hair. The negatives can be tackled with lifestyle interventions and this is the pheno that greatly profits from the knowledge on this forum.

The older you get, the more likely you will fall in one of the latter categories, it's a result of aging, and your response is probably genetically determined (fin will shift you towards feminization and keeping hair).

And then, ofc, there are men who get the worst of both worlds, and are, on average, the unhealthiest.


So ideally you would have a high aromatase expression in your scalp and a high 5ar expression pretty much everywhere else, but sadly there is nothing you can really do about that.


All of this is also connected to inflammation and fibrosis but I'm not entirely sure how. I'm pretty sure, however, that it's fibrosis why men who regain their health (the ability to metabolize E before it goes systemic thus allowing your skin to produce it), do not regrow hair in MPB.

Fibrosis is almost irreversible. I think it would take many HOURS a day of intense massaging to reverse it, and I saw a pic of a guy who restored insane skin elasticity and regrew his temples.


So thats where we are at IMO. Reversing fibrosis has always been the problem, and from a result perspective the best approach seem to be breaking it up with needling while putting minox and antagonizing the MCR/collagen formation

I think a robotic firm making legit high tech massage devices that use a lot of force could essentially cure MPB. You basically need to be able to pick up your scalp easily with two fingers, very much like your skin elsewhere. Thats the only way to reverse fibrosis without using bad meds

 

[Cheese liver]

I think the first strategy for any person losing hair is to evaluate their environment and health condition. Lab tests the ones Danny Roddy recommends are quite interesting. I will be getting those done soon and will share in this thread.

The Bioenergetic models which I have implemented:
1. Calcium intake
After learning of the importance of the calcium to phosphate ratio i immediately included loads of milk and cheese into my diet and I can say for certain that the daily hair shedding that I used to see has gone completely. Just to test that this was indeed the milk I quit again for about a week and the shedding returned.
2.Applying vitamin D & E on the scalp
I feel immediately after application the hair becomes slightly thicker and voluminous.
3. Red Light
Seen no difference from almost 10 hours of red light daily for a month. From what I've read this cant take a longer period of time about a year or so.


Just implementing these 2 have stopped my current hair shedding to almost zero. I will keep updated on other things that I will implement.

 

[Mufasa]

I think the first strategy for any person losing hair is to evaluate their environment and health condition. Lab tests the ones Danny Roddy recommends are quite interesting. I will be getting those done soon and will share in this thread.

The Bioenergetic models which I have implemented:
1. Calcium intake
After learning of the importance of the calcium to phosphate ratio i immediately included loads of milk and cheese into my diet and I can say for certain that the daily hair shedding that I used to see has gone completely. Just to test that this was indeed the milk I quit again for about a week and the shedding returned.
2.Applying vitamin D & E on the scalp
I feel immediately after application the hair becomes slightly thicker and voluminous.
3. Red Light
Seen no difference from almost 10 hours of red light daily for a month. From what I've read this cant take a longer period of time about a year or so.


Just implementing these 2 have stopped my current hair shedding to almost zero. I will keep updated on other things that I will implement.

Taking red light for too long causes heat stress which can make the fibrosis worse.

 

[Cheese liver]

Taking red light for too long causes heat stress which can make the fibrosis worse.

i use it a distance such that it doesnt cause intense heat buildup so might not cuz much of an issue.
BTW where did u read about red light causing fibrosis ? Can u share the details ?