encerent
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Even if the Ray Peat approach doesn't help your hair, it'll benefit your health greatly so you shouldn't give up on it.
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Dear Carnivore Dieters, A Muscle Meat Only Diet is Extremely Healing Because it is a Low "vitamin A" Diet. This is Why it Works so Well...
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GIVING UP: My Accutane Related Hair Loss Update
- Thread starter Dhair
- Start date
I'm saving up for a laser helmet.
It's actually the only thing that I have hope for because of the experiences some other people on the forum have had with it. I doubt It will make my hair even manageable though. I think it's too far gone.
DaveFoster
Member
It's kind of ironic; sorry for your loss.
Many of my friends have taken accutane.
Interesting how people need to convince themselves that vanity's wrong when it correlates with hypothyroidism.
@Dhair
sladerunner69 has some positive experiences with a red-light helmet. You can probably re-grow your hair, you'll just need to use non-conventional methods, including vigorous massaging, the helmet I mentioned, maybe scratching the scalp or injuring it somehow (I don't know if this is healthy.)
Many of my friends have taken accutane.
Lol, I knew you were going to start talking about DHT.
Interesting how people need to convince themselves that vanity's wrong when it correlates with hypothyroidism.
@Dhair
sladerunner69 has some positive experiences with a red-light helmet. You can probably re-grow your hair, you'll just need to use non-conventional methods, including vigorous massaging, the helmet I mentioned, maybe scratching the scalp or injuring it somehow (I don't know if this is healthy.)
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Well, like I said, Big Pharma pays well to PR companies to manipulate public knowledge like that. I saw it happen with the Wiki page on estrone sulfate. If you search the forum you will see me quoting the Wiki article saying that estrone sulfate is a prognostic factor for prostate cancer. That statement is now gone from the page. We live in a brave new world....not.
Yes, the new guidelines in the US at least changed the range to be 0.5 - 3.5 but I think it kicks into effect in 2017. Which is of course ridiculous as if disease and health depended on specific years.
mayweatherking
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just becuase DHT is good... doesnt mean it isn't a problem in the right context. i can tell you for a fact that in an all ready balding individual, DHT is going to cause more inflammation and more problems. from personal experience. i am not saying that DHT should be blocked... but i'm saying it's a problem when someone is balding.
How will DHT cause inflammation? By what mechanism? All of its effects and known pathways are anti-inflammatory. I can see that DHT may not be good for everybody, but this effect of Accutane does cast doubt on the main premise of the theory - i.e. that DHT is universally bad for hair (and prostate) and causes hair loss, and blocking it is good.
mayweatherking
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I don't know how it can cause inflammation. But I can tell you that when the DHT derivative is used, scalp inflammation is increased 10 fold. I know, because I tried it. In F2M transition, they will start to bald and lose their hair when they take testosterone. Obviously the male hormones are causing the hair loss. But I don't think they are the root cause like you say. I think the tight scalp environment is what is causing those said hormones to lead to the problem.
encerent
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- 609
redlightman.com is already overpriced too.
how do i get this down without taking synthroid or anything like that?
I'd rather not spend $ on a consultation. I'm sure there are people on here who would give me any advice I needed or help me analyze my labs.
I plan on doing this. I just have to have $1500 to spend on the damn thing first.
Vitamin A helps acne only if the acne is caused by a vitamin A deficiency.
I know people who have tried Vitamin A therapy under a doctor's supervision, taking as much as 200,000IU per day and got no benefits at all for their acne. They did however get many of the symptoms of Hypervitamintosis A. Those people went on to take Accutane, which did clear their acne. None of those people went bald.
Accutane is not acting as a substitute for vitamin A. It does not cure acne by curing a vitamin A deficiency.
Don't know if it would work, but you can try caffeine and maybe methylene blue (not at the same time). I posted studies showing they both decreased TSH but I don't know if the effect has been thoroughly tested in humans.
"We found that plasma vitamin A concentrations in patients with acne were significantly lower than those of the control group (336.5 vs. 418.1 μg/L, respectively) P = 0.007. We also found that plasma vitamin E concentrations in patients with acne were significantly lower than those of controls (5.4 vs. 5.9 mg/L) P = 0.05. In addition, we found that there is a strong relationship between decrease in plasma vitamin A levels and increase in the severity of acne condition. Patients with severe acne had significantly lower plasma concentrations of vitamins A and E than did those with lower acne grade and the age-matched healthy controls."
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2230.2006.02106.x/full
"A synergism between vitamins A and E has been demonstrated by a number of investigators, notably Stanley R. Ames, who showed that in rats on a vitamin E deficient diet, the serum vitamin A level remained low, no matter how much vitamin A was given by mouth, or even by injection, but that adding vitamin E to the diet restored the vitamin A serum level to normal. We have utilized these observations with a high degree of success where vitamin A alone had failed to control three dermatologic conditions involving a defect in keratinization, namely, keratosis follicularis (Darier's disease), pityriasis rubra pilaris, and acne vulgaris. It is possible that a number of additional dermatoses characterized by dyskeratosis or hyperkeratosis might also be benefited by this combination."
Synergism of vitamins A and E with dermatologic applications. - Abstract - Europe PMC
This is actually exactly what Peat says all the time, if Vitamin e is low there is ecxessive wasting of Vitamin A. So no matter how much Vitamin A you take its not used correctly. Its necessary to correct deficiencies in all the cofactors involved in retinol metabolism. These are Vitamin E, Zinc (for increasing retinol binding protein, increasing alcohol dehygrogenases activity), Niacinamide (for nad dependent enzymes, increases retinol dehydrogenase activity), Rivoflavin (for flavine dependent enzymes), Vitamin D&K to balance. I think there is a synergism between lots of those substances, so 2500-5000 iu vitamin a from a supplement should be enough depending on bodyweight and thyroid funtion, not very likely to develop hypervitaminosis symptoms here compared to the very high doses.
There are also studys that show that in acne is oxidative and nitrosative stress going on. Probably high Pufa and high NO.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2230.2006.02106.x/full
"A synergism between vitamins A and E has been demonstrated by a number of investigators, notably Stanley R. Ames, who showed that in rats on a vitamin E deficient diet, the serum vitamin A level remained low, no matter how much vitamin A was given by mouth, or even by injection, but that adding vitamin E to the diet restored the vitamin A serum level to normal. We have utilized these observations with a high degree of success where vitamin A alone had failed to control three dermatologic conditions involving a defect in keratinization, namely, keratosis follicularis (Darier's disease), pityriasis rubra pilaris, and acne vulgaris. It is possible that a number of additional dermatoses characterized by dyskeratosis or hyperkeratosis might also be benefited by this combination."
Synergism of vitamins A and E with dermatologic applications. - Abstract - Europe PMC
This is actually exactly what Peat says all the time, if Vitamin e is low there is ecxessive wasting of Vitamin A. So no matter how much Vitamin A you take its not used correctly. Its necessary to correct deficiencies in all the cofactors involved in retinol metabolism. These are Vitamin E, Zinc (for increasing retinol binding protein, increasing alcohol dehygrogenases activity), Niacinamide (for nad dependent enzymes, increases retinol dehydrogenase activity), Rivoflavin (for flavine dependent enzymes), Vitamin D&K to balance. I think there is a synergism between lots of those substances, so 2500-5000 iu vitamin a from a supplement should be enough depending on bodyweight and thyroid funtion, not very likely to develop hypervitaminosis symptoms here compared to the very high doses.
There are also studys that show that in acne is oxidative and nitrosative stress going on. Probably high Pufa and high NO.
Orion
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- Oct 23, 2015
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- 858
RP has stated; PUFA blocks vitamin A transport, and PUFA blocks thyroid transport, PUFA also interferes with cholesterol in cells. I suspect accutane blocks both vitamin A and thyroid by binding to the one protein they use for transport; transthyretin, this would cause massive thyroid down regulation. Meaning pregnenolone, progesterone, DHEA and all the downstream hormones are not manufactured, since vitamin A, thyroid and cholesterol are required to do this. Add accutane into a diet with PUFA and lots of PUFA stored, would mean running on cortisol/adrenaline and being estrogen dominant.
I believe people with too much PUFA stored will not have success with real vitamin A for acne.
@Dhair Have you thought of trying high calorie, zero fat/zero PUFA to try and get PUFA out of the equation. I am now 1 month into trying this, skin improving better then any other thing I have tried. Hair is still shedding, but seems to be less then when I started, and dandruff is steadily decreasing. I have been on accutane twice. I am also thinking of experimenting with one very large dose of progesterone, to see if that could knock out some estrogen. I will keep you updated.
Right, these are all valid points that nobody is disputing. My point was simply about Accutane being a known 5-AR inhibitor and being known to lower serum and scalp DHT. If the DHT theory of baldness was correct, these people should have seen increase in hair growth, not baldness.
So, one possibly mitigating approach would be to combine vitamin A (or Accutane) with a hefty dose of vitamin E. It should address both the PUFA excess (to a degree) and the vitamin A toxicity and in effectiveness noted in the post above yours.
Orion
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- Oct 23, 2015
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- 858
Just wanted to add that RP has stated that when you are not eating PUFA and PUFA storage is depleted, there is zero requirement for vitamin E. Vitamin E was only needed to detoxify PUFA. Is this still the correct thinking?
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