E2 and its role in PSSD/Serotonin Syndrome complications.

[Hitchens]

My symptoms from SS have greatly improved since TRT and HCG, I had the idea to try it when I saw my e2 levels were very low on bloodwork in September and estrogenic substances such as FIsetin and Quercetin seemed to help. Though not recovered completely, my suspicions were correct that the estradiol/serotonin connection is involved in the healing process. I came across the following thread from Sweaty_Literature_69 on reddit, and I will be experimenting with E2 as well.

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/PSSD/comments/123l8ls/how_i_predictably_got_rid_of_my_pssd_and_how/

 

[mostlylurking]

My symptoms from SS have greatly improved since TRT and HCG, I had the idea to try it when I saw my e2 levels were very low on bloodwork in September and estrogenic substances such as FIsetin and Quercetin seemed to help. Though not recovered completely, my suspicions were correct that the estradiol/serotonin connection is involved in the healing process. I came across the following thread from Sweaty_Literature_69 on reddit, and I will be experimenting with E2 as well.

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/PSSD/comments/123l8ls/how_i_predictably_got_rid_of_my_pssd_and_how/

I dunno.... Both estrogen and serotonin have very bad reputations around here for good reason. Both increase inflammation and all the negatives that go with that, although an argument can be made that inflammation can aid in the healing process of a wound.
Here's some suggested reading:

Serotonin, depression, and aggression - The problem of brain energy.

Serotonin research is relatively new, but it rivals estrogen research for the level of incompetence and apparent fraudulent intent that can be found in professional publications. This is partly because of the involvement of the drug industry, but the U.S. government also played a role in setting...

raypeat.com

Serotonin: Effects in disease, aging and inflammation

In the early 1950s, several people recognized that the symptoms produced by administering an excess of serotonin were similar to those experienced by people with intestinal tumors called argentaffinomas or carcinoid tumors, which are usually in the small intestine or appendix.

raypeat.com

Estrogen and brain aging in men and women: Depression, energy, stress

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Tissue-bound estrogen in aging

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Here's an alternative concept regarding serotonin syndrome:

Serotonin Syndrome and Thiamine: Is There a Connection? - Hormones Matter

A mild deficiency of thiamine is responsible for the large number of the polysymptomatic illnesses reported.

www.hormonesmatter.com

I've been through serotonin syndrome myself, high dose thiamine hcl was a life saver.

My symptoms from SS have greatly improved since TRT and HCG

SS=serotonin syndrome? Yes? TRT=what, testosterone replacement therapy? HCG=what? Human chorionic gonadotropin? You're writing in code, makes it very hard to respond to your post.

 

[Hitchens]

I dunno.... Both estrogen and serotonin have very bad reputations around here for good reason. Both increase inflammation and all the negatives that go with that, although an argument can be made that inflammation can aid in the healing process of a wound.
Here's some suggested reading:

Serotonin, depression, and aggression - The problem of brain energy.

Serotonin research is relatively new, but it rivals estrogen research for the level of incompetence and apparent fraudulent intent that can be found in professional publications. This is partly because of the involvement of the drug industry, but the U.S. government also played a role in setting...

raypeat.com

Serotonin: Effects in disease, aging and inflammation

In the early 1950s, several people recognized that the symptoms produced by administering an excess of serotonin were similar to those experienced by people with intestinal tumors called argentaffinomas or carcinoid tumors, which are usually in the small intestine or appendix.

raypeat.com

Estrogen and brain aging in men and women: Depression, energy, stress

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Tissue-bound estrogen in aging

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Here's an alternative concept regarding serotonin syndrome:

Serotonin Syndrome and Thiamine: Is There a Connection? - Hormones Matter

A mild deficiency of thiamine is responsible for the large number of the polysymptomatic illnesses reported.

www.hormonesmatter.com

I've been through serotonin syndrome myself, high dose thiamine hcl was a life saver.


SS=serotonin syndrome? Yes? TRT=what, testosterone replacement therapy? HCG=what? Human chorionic gonadotropin? You're writing in code, makes it very hard to respond to your post.

Testosterone and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin yes,

 

[mostlylurking]

Testosterone and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin yes,

This is not something I know about. However, I did a quick search on Human Chorionic Gonadotropin and found an interesting article I'll pass along to you.

Hormone Therapies for Boys Harmed by Soy Formula

🖨️ Print post Every week I get agonized letters from parents who fed their sons soy infant formula and who report estrogenized boys who are flabby, lethargic, high […]

www.westonaprice.org

that article lead to this one:

Soy Recovery: The Toxic Metal Component

🖨️ Print post What’s the first step in soy recovery? Eliminating soy from the diet, of course, but for the average American this is easier said than done. […]

www.westonaprice.org

I thought the toxic metal component of interest. High dose thiamine hcl has helped me with heavy metal toxicity symptoms.

I do not know with these articles are pertinent to your situation but I decided to pass them along to you anyway.

 

[Hitchens]

Perhaps I'll try thiamine,

This is not something I know about. However, I did a quick search on Human Chorionic Gonadotropin and found an interesting article I'll pass along to you.

Hormone Therapies for Boys Harmed by Soy Formula

🖨️ Print post Every week I get agonized letters from parents who fed their sons soy infant formula and who report estrogenized boys who are flabby, lethargic, high […]

www.westonaprice.org

that article lead to this one:

Soy Recovery: The Toxic Metal Component

🖨️ Print post What’s the first step in soy recovery? Eliminating soy from the diet, of course, but for the average American this is easier said than done. […]

www.westonaprice.org

I thought the toxic metal component of interest. High dose thiamine hcl has helped me with heavy metal toxicity symptoms.

I do not know with these articles are pertinent to your situation but I decided to pass them along to you anyway.

Perhaps I'll try thiamine what was your dose? Btw, I have added estradiol benzoate to my regime last three days. .25 mg, .5 mg and 1mg today. I experienced euphoria for the first time in a year and the first two days my brain fog got worse before dramatically improving hours later. Today, no fog, no head pressure, I am anticipating euphoria in the next few hours like the previous two days, 8 hours after dosing. Aromatase down regulation due to prolonged reuputake exposure in the PSSD group and for me, a dramatic adaptive response via down regulation in aromatase to protect me from dying? Peatertarians, why do I feel better?

 

[mostlylurking]

Perhaps I'll try thiamine what was your dose?

I'm taking 1 gram of thiamine hcl, 2Xday. I'm following Dr. Costantini's protocol.

I have added estradiol benzoate to my regime last three days. .25 mg, .5 mg and 1mg today.

Gleanings from a search for "estradiol benzoate" in Ray Peat's articles:

Prostate Cancer

By the mid-1980s, some studies had shown that estrogen treatment didn't prolong the survival of prostate cancer patients at all, but it was argued that the patients who received estrogen were happier than those who didn't.

raypeat.com

"Acta Pathol Microbiol Immunol Scand [A]. 1982 Nov;90(6):441-8. Morphology of rat prostatic lobes and seminal vesicles after long-term estrogen treatment. Andersson H, Tisell LE. "The growth of the prostatic lobes and seminal vesicles of castrated rats was studied morphologically after long-term treatment with estradiol benzoate. Estradiol promoted slightly the growth of the prostatic lobes but more markedly the seminal vesicles, although it had catabolic effects as reflected in low body and levator ani weights."

Tissue-bound Estrogen in Aging

Eclampsia in the Real Organism: A Paradigm of General Distress Applicable in Infants, Adults, Etc.

raypeat.com

"Probl Endokrinol (Mosk), 1981 Mar-Apr, 27:2, 48-52. [Blood estradiol level and G2-chalone content in the vaginal mucosa in rats of different ages] Anisimov VN; Okulov VB. “17 beta-Estradiol level was higher in the blood serum of rats aged 14 to 16 months with regular estral cycles during all the phases as compared to that in 3- to 4-month-old female rats. The latter ones had a higher vaginal mucosa G2-chalone concentration. The level of the vaginal mucosa G2-chalone decreased in young rats 12 hours after subcutaneous benzoate-estradiol injection. . . .”. “Possi-ble role of age-associated disturbances of the regulatory cell pro-liferation stimulant (estrogen) and its inhibitor (chalone) inter-actions in neoplastic target tissue transformation is discussed.”

Natural Estrogens

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

"Rodriguez, P; Fernandez-Galaz, C; Tejero, A. Controlled neonatal exposure to estrogens: A suitable tool for reproductive aging studies in the female rat. Biology of Reproduction, v.49, n.2, (1993): 387-392. The present study was designed to determine whether the modification of exposure time to large doses of estrogens provided a reliable model for early changes in reproductive aging. Silastic implants containing estradiol benzoate (EB) in solution were placed into 5-day-old female Wistar rats and removed 1 day (Ei1 group) or 5 days (Ei5) later. In addition, 100 mu-g EB dissolved in 100 mu-l corn oil was administered s.c. to another group (EI). Control rats received either vehicle implants or 100 mu-l corn oil. Premature occurrence of vaginal opening was observed in all three estrogenized groups independently of EB exposure. However, females bearing implants for 24 h had first estrus at the same age as their controls and cycled regularly, and neither histological nor gonadal alterations could be observed at 75 days.. Interestingly, they failed to cycle regularly at 5 mo whereas controls continued to cycle. On the other hand, the increase of EB exposure (Ei5, EI) resulted in a gradual and significant delay in the onset of first estrus and in a high number of estrous phases, as frequently observed during reproductive decline. At 75 days, the ovaries of these last two groups showed a reduced number of corpora lutea and an increased number of large follicles. According to this histological pattern, ovarian weight and progesterone (P) content gradually decreased whereas both groups showed higher estradiol (E-2) content than controls. This resulted in a higher E-2:P ratio, comparable to that observed in normal aging rats. The results allow us to conclude that the exposure time to large doses of estrogens is critical to the gradual enhancement of reproductive decline. Furthermore, exposures as brief as 24 h led to a potential early model for aging studies that will be useful to verify whether neuroendocrine changes precede gonadal impairment."

Peatertarians, why do I feel better?

This is not my focus; I have no idea why estradiol benzoate would make you euphoric. Estrogen in any form never made me euphoric. Homicidal maybe....

 

[Hitchens]

I'm taking 1 gram of thiamine hcl, 2Xday. I'm following Dr. Costantini's protocol.

Gleanings from a search for "estradiol benzoate" in Ray Peat's articles:

Prostate Cancer

By the mid-1980s, some studies had shown that estrogen treatment didn't prolong the survival of prostate cancer patients at all, but it was argued that the patients who received estrogen were happier than those who didn't.

raypeat.com

"Acta Pathol Microbiol Immunol Scand [A]. 1982 Nov;90(6):441-8. Morphology of rat prostatic lobes and seminal vesicles after long-term estrogen treatment. Andersson H, Tisell LE. "The growth of the prostatic lobes and seminal vesicles of castrated rats was studied morphologically after long-term treatment with estradiol benzoate. Estradiol promoted slightly the growth of the prostatic lobes but more markedly the seminal vesicles, although it had catabolic effects as reflected in low body and levator ani weights."

Tissue-bound Estrogen in Aging

Eclampsia in the Real Organism: A Paradigm of General Distress Applicable in Infants, Adults, Etc.

raypeat.com

"Probl Endokrinol (Mosk), 1981 Mar-Apr, 27:2, 48-52. [Blood estradiol level and G2-chalone content in the vaginal mucosa in rats of different ages] Anisimov VN; Okulov VB. “17 beta-Estradiol level was higher in the blood serum of rats aged 14 to 16 months with regular estral cycles during all the phases as compared to that in 3- to 4-month-old female rats. The latter ones had a higher vaginal mucosa G2-chalone concentration. The level of the vaginal mucosa G2-chalone decreased in young rats 12 hours after subcutaneous benzoate-estradiol injection. . . .”. “Possi-ble role of age-associated disturbances of the regulatory cell pro-liferation stimulant (estrogen) and its inhibitor (chalone) inter-actions in neoplastic target tissue transformation is discussed.”

Natural Estrogens

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

"Rodriguez, P; Fernandez-Galaz, C; Tejero, A. Controlled neonatal exposure to estrogens: A suitable tool for reproductive aging studies in the female rat. Biology of Reproduction, v.49, n.2, (1993): 387-392. The present study was designed to determine whether the modification of exposure time to large doses of estrogens provided a reliable model for early changes in reproductive aging. Silastic implants containing estradiol benzoate (EB) in solution were placed into 5-day-old female Wistar rats and removed 1 day (Ei1 group) or 5 days (Ei5) later. In addition, 100 mu-g EB dissolved in 100 mu-l corn oil was administered s.c. to another group (EI). Control rats received either vehicle implants or 100 mu-l corn oil. Premature occurrence of vaginal opening was observed in all three estrogenized groups independently of EB exposure. However, females bearing implants for 24 h had first estrus at the same age as their controls and cycled regularly, and neither histological nor gonadal alterations could be observed at 75 days.. Interestingly, they failed to cycle regularly at 5 mo whereas controls continued to cycle. On the other hand, the increase of EB exposure (Ei5, EI) resulted in a gradual and significant delay in the onset of first estrus and in a high number of estrous phases, as frequently observed during reproductive decline. At 75 days, the ovaries of these last two groups showed a reduced number of corpora lutea and an increased number of large follicles. According to this histological pattern, ovarian weight and progesterone (P) content gradually decreased whereas both groups showed higher estradiol (E-2) content than controls. This resulted in a higher E-2:P ratio, comparable to that observed in normal aging rats. The results allow us to conclude that the exposure time to large doses of estrogens is critical to the gradual enhancement of reproductive decline. Furthermore, exposures as brief as 24 h led to a potential early model for aging studies that will be useful to verify whether neuroendocrine changes precede gonadal impairment."


This is not my focus; I have no idea why estradiol benzoate would make you euphoric. Estrogen in any form never made me euphoric. Homicidal maybe....

I think there is a sycophantic allegiance to the teachings of Ray Peat that ignore equilibriums of hormonal balance and the downstream consequences if one were to for example down regulate the aromatase enzyme for the sake of removing estrogen from the equation and or cull 5-hydroxytryptamine to eliminate serotonin. Would love to see how a photographic memory performs after the latter.

 

[mostlylurking]

I think there is a sycophantic allegiance to the teachings of Ray Peat that ignore equilibriums of hormonal balance and the downstream consequences if one were to for example down regulate the aromatase enzyme for the sake of removing estrogen from the equation and or cull 5-hydroxytryptamine to eliminate serotonin.

My sycophantic allegiance to the teaching of Ray Peat saved my life. I'm female, 73. I spent over 30 years being estrogen dominant because I had a tubal ligation at age 28. Now I have successfully gotten my estrogen down to almost zero. I'm a whole lot healthier and happier and I have no interest in accepting the estrogen replacement therapy my GP enthusiastically promotes. Been there, done that.

I've lived with high serotonin for many years. It was horrible. I was thiamine deficient because I have heavy metal poisoning. Thiamine is required to clear serotonin from the brain. I know that serotonin has a roll to play and I'm sure there's a reason that it's in the brain, but if you cannot clear it out it causes severe problems.

 

[Hitchens]

TLR4 is inhibiited by exogenous e2, cypro and LDN. Interestingly, TLR4 agonists inhibited follicular development and synthesis of estradiol (E2) in mice
A study posted in another channel shows allop also does this, not sure that I have experimented enough with allop, progest e yes, I know the pfs people certainly have.if allop doesnt work it can rule out the tlr4 pathway potentially. Paradoxically, I feel better when I have itchy skin and yet....TLR4 expression in sensory neurons potentiates histamine-induced itch signal transduction.

...maybe Furthermore, Frei et al. (15) reported that histamine suppressed TLR4-induced TNFα secretion from mDC cell. TLR activation is followed by the ability of mDCs to stimulate and drive polarization of T lymphocyte responses. The presence of histamine during TLR4 stimulation did not alter the ability of mDC to stimulate T lymphocyte proliferative response, nonetheless Th1/Th2 homeostasis was altered with increased IL-4 producing Th2 cells during mixed lymphocyte reaction (10, 11) or reduced Th1 shift during autologous naive T cell stimulation (15).

**** yeah...https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2056280/.