Do I Just Suck It Up?

[teds]

you will probably never lose weight with those macros....you are kind of paleo/keto but your carbs are still high either do peat or do keto but not both

your body has to power plants one that burns sugar the other burns fat...it is not easy for the body to switch back and fourth so either become fully fat adaptive or fully carb adabptive

you have to choose either to live on fat or live on carb if you play with both you will have massive insulin spikes that will keep you fat on and prevent fat burning.

ALWAYS REMEMBER INSULIN EQUALS FUEL STORAGE INCLUDING FAT

if you drop your carbs to like 10-15 grams then you will loose a lot of water weight from being in ketosis if your hormones are healthy then you will become fat adapted and burn fat


but what is your starting weight and your goal weight and what is your height?

Hi @fradon - I was keto and paleo for about 8 years. it's what got me into this predicament in the first place. Being "fat adapted" simply means being "stress adapted" and that really isn't a long term possibility. It simply stresses the crap out of me. Furthermore, my insulin was never higher than when I was 'in ketosis'.. I can only assume due to the stress on the system.

Also- I think you may have misinterpreted the carb amounts- 225-230g of carb wouldn't really allow for keto unless I was extremely active.. as i've mentioned, my fat is higher than some people would recommend and I've tried to figure out ways to lower the fat and keep the protein and carbs appropriate while still eating food as opposed to meal sups or some other kind of frankenfood..

 

[teds]

I’ve got the same predicament you do, and while I think first and foremost you should focus on your sleep and energy, as long as you aren’t obese or grossly overweight, forget about the extra weight. Def not worth crashing your sleep and energy and stressing your body cutting calories. Always eat to satiation in my opinion.

That being said, some things that you don’t have on there that I think you can play around with. Ray had said that calcium and salt are powerful metabolic stimulators. Sounds like you got the salt covered, but you could also try adding some low fat mozerlla cheese into your diet for more calcium. You could also salt this cheese for a powerful 1,2 metabolic boost. I find oj + salted mozerella tomatoes make me feel very good.

Secondly, you should definitely add gelatin to your diet. Ray stated in a podcast that if one wanted to loose weight, to cut out all muscle meats and consume gelatin instead. I find a serving of meat a day makes me feel good, so I don’t entirely ditch the meat, but I consume 2 packets of Knox gelatin breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and before bed. If you got 40-50g of gelatin in your diet a day, I bet that over the course of a couple months you could drop some pounds without having to change anything else.

Lastly, work on exercise that is enjoyable and stimulating. You should feel good after exercising, never exhausted or broken down. I believe the higher the complexity of movement, the better the exercise is for your health, so calisthenics, yoga, tai-chi, anything that is varied, complex, and not overtly stressful id recommend.

Thanks- I drink between 1-2 litres of LF milk per day at the moment so I think I'm getting enough calcium.. I've just started to add more gelatin to my milk so I'm getting about 30g per day at the moment... i'm going to try to up this every week and I'll report back.. :)
I'm certainly not obese but i could lose about 10% and be in the very healthy range of fat for women.. I agree though- definitely not trying to sacrifice sleep.. i've been really considering just getting back into yoga and stopping the heavy weights for a few months to see if that changes the metabolic stimulation. I know most people on this forum would argue strongly for lifting heavy 2-3x per week. Although I really love weights I haven't felt motivation for this over the past month or so.. this must mean something so I may start a different program and see how the body responds.

 

[Terma]

Free amino acids. Lysine, taurine, but also may work are leucine, glutamine, arginine:
The Satiating Secret of Arginine, Lysine and Glutamic Acid. Plus: Things You May Not Know About These Aminos - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone
(This is only one study, there must be dozens by now)
Buy in bulk and take several grams at once. Lysine very effective. When ingested as food proteins it takes much longer to break down and absorb so it won't get the same effect as free amino.

The lysine/leucine is probably one reason the other guy had success with Whey. Whey is the fastest-absorbed protein. Of course, the high insulin from it significantly contributes. (Other insulin-like promoters matter as well [e.g GLP-1] but I can't recall if Whey triggers them; but I think arginine and glycine do, so hydrolized collagen/gelatin might work too)

If you're a woman, do what RP says and keep liver glycogen supplied using fructose throughout the day, he knows best about that. But if you're very active, starch is more more effective for muscles and feedback to the hypothalamus and will work much better all round. If you're very active and use your muscles a lot, sugar will never cut it.

Carb control combined with doses of free amino acids will get rid of hunger.

And like that other guy said, my god get rid of the niacinamide.

[As for form: Lysine HCl seems to work effectively, not sure about the freebase]

 

[teds]

And like that other guy said, my god get rid of the niacinamide.

do you think 2100-2300 is low calorie? Too low cal to use niacinamide?

 

[teds]

Few ideas:

1. If you're sedentary, then those calories might be enough. However, if you were lifting heavy 45min/day 3x per week just six weeks ago, it sounds like possible over-training leading to stress. Turning that fat into muscle that needs more food; especially if you're hypo. Burning fat from higher metabolic rate can sometimes require some shocking numbers if you're hypo.

2. Liver health: how well do you handle coffee?

3. Labs - easiest way to spot a major deficiency

4. Salt - when I started measuring my salt intake while salting each and every meal, I ended up with 1tsp/day, while we lose around 1Tbsp/day.

5. Your metric for losing weight - is this for physical appearance, lower body fat percentage, to feel better overall....?

Also, carbs look low for that amount protein. Looks like you might still be stuck on that cal-in cal-out model.

Cheers!

Hey @theLaw

2. i handle coffee well- i drink about 2-3 double shots per day with food- sometimes w cream and fruit, sometimes w a whole meal etc, Sometimes w milk on the side etc.

5. Metric for losing weight would be clothing feel and caliper pinching- yes for physical appearance but also to move better- I'd like to be able to bend and stretch without running into a belly of lard

Carb to protein- so would you suggest increasing the carbs or lowering the protein..? Both have been suggested in various posts... remembering that I'm a woman. :)

 

[Jem Oz]

@fradon - if you're advocating low carb you've definitely strayed into the wrong neck of the woods my friend!

 

[teds]

@fradon - if you're advocating low carb you've definitely strayed into the wrong neck of the woods my friend!

lol i know, right!

 

[Terma]

do you think 2100-2300 is low calorie? Too low cal to use niacinamide?

It's not a matter of calories, more like protein. Niacinamide interacts with methylation and may produce undesirable byproducts (see other threads for this) and in particular you eat eggs and a bunch of meats I've never heard of.

Also the time you take it makes a difference. A little bit near the end of the day is somewhat physiological, taking it in the morning is ridiculous. But I would get rid of it completely for weight loss. Take something else comparable instead if you need, like high dose magnesium or even something from pharma.

 

[teds]

It's not a matter of calories, more like protein. Niacinamide interacts with methylation and may produce undesirable byproducts (see other threads for this) and in particular you eat eggs and a bunch of meats I've never heard of.

Also the time you take it makes a difference. A little bit near the end of the day is somewhat physiological, taking it in the morning is ridiculous. But I would get rid of it completely for weight loss. Take something else comparable instead if you need, like high dose magnesium or even something from pharma.

wonderful thanks for that! I've been taking it in the evening for sedative effects mostly.. I've got some good Mg so I'll have a play with that.

You've never heard of wallaby?? Cute little critters... low fat.. :)

 

[Terma]

Are you sure that's low-fat??

 

[Luckytype]

As beneficial as lifting is, if you are compromised metabolically it is a stressor that is hard to buffer. It sounds absolutely ridiculous but even 20-30 minutes of intense training can be a detriment.

You need to keep an eye on morning temp for a week(with no lifting)and then see how it changes the morning after an intense session.

If you are compromised its much better to be grazing every 90 to 120 minutes to get your calories in vs waiting 3 hours.

Muscle is awesome - but realize its a stress adaptation meant to make stress less stressful.

 

[teds]

Are you sure that's low-fat??

 

[Terma]

Yeah I guess they must jump around a lot eh [just not convinced about that one]. Gettin tired here. Not judging, enjoy your giant squirrels.

 

[fradon]

Hi @fradon - I was keto and paleo for about 8 years. it's what got me into this predicament in the first place. Being "fat adapted" simply means being "stress adapted" and that really isn't a long term possibility. It simply stresses the crap out of me. Furthermore, my insulin was never higher than when I was 'in ketosis'.. I can only assume due to the stress on the system.

Also- I think you may have misinterpreted the carb amounts- 225-230g of carb wouldn't really allow for keto unless I was extremely active.. as i've mentioned, my fat is higher than some people would recommend and I've tried to figure out ways to lower the fat and keep the protein and carbs appropriate while still eating food as opposed to meal sups or some other kind of frankenfood..

yes you wrote it weird this is what you wrote

I’m getting around 2100-2200cal.. 225/30carb, 155/60protein, 65/70fat..

i thought you the second number was your percentages so i read 30% carb 60% protein and 70% percent fat.

 

[teds]

yes you wrote it weird this is what you wrote

I’m getting around 2100-2200cal.. 225/30carb, 155/60protein, 65/70fat..

i thought you the second number was your percentages so i read 30% carb 60% protein and 70% percent fat.

sorry for the confusion at 160%...

 

[fradon]

@fradon - if you're advocating low carb you've definitely strayed into the wrong neck of the woods my friend!

no i read his macros wrong he said

I’m getting around 2100-2200cal.. 225/30carb, 155/60protein, 65/70fat..

i thought the second number was percentages.

 

[theLaw]

Hey @theLaw

5. Metric for losing weight would be clothing feel and caliper pinching- yes for physical appearance but also to move better- I'd like to be able to bend and stretch without running into a belly of lard

Carb to protein- so would you suggest increasing the carbs or lowering the protein..? Both have been suggested in various posts... remembering that I'm a woman. :)

6. I think that if you keep the sat fat low-ish (20%) + add some carbs (mostly from fruit juice), then more high-quality protein can help (careful - the devil is in the details with protein type).

A high quality BCAA is probably the easiest way:

https://impower.life/shop/ or just make your own from Bulk Sups

I think that the key is keeping your temps and pulse up to burn the fat, and there are many ways to achieve this.

A common pattern on this forum is for people to be in an obvious stress-state, but fail to realize it as it has become the norm for them. This is where a re-feed can be very productive using largely sat fat + carbs.

 

[fradon]

sorry for the confusion at 160%...

what is your height and current weight and your goal weight?

you may try a diet like 10-15% fat that would me like 36 grams of fat
for protein do .75 grams per pound of body weight
then the rest carbs, focussing on plant based low glycemic. and unprocessed grains like rice and oat meal or other sugars like milk.

as for excercise try WALKING. get a fitbit and set a step goal. like 10 thousand steps per day. then increases as you get better at walking.


i too tried keto and had the keto rash for a while. now i do more carb and lower fat.

 

[fradon]

f

 

[Hugh Johnson]

i've been 'peating ' for a little over a year now. every time I drop cals to try to shift some lard i'm hungry hungry hungry.. the idea is to increase metabolism and then obviously be eating at a calorie deficit- how does one (female input would be greatly appreciated) loose the fat without going through a binge cycle b/c of the hunger..


Summary of me:
low fat milk
eggs
fruit- apples, mandarins, bananas, oranges
sweet potato/zucchini/pumkpin
LF sweetened condensed milk
oats (occasionally)
liver 150g x1 per wek
6-12 oysters per week
prawns 5-10 per week
barramundi
wallaby
oxtail

daily carrot "salad" which is often just me munching on a carrot...
500-1000g niacinamide

played w T4/T3 and just T3.. does increase temps but using it nervously so I don't use it consistently
alternating progesterone and pregnenolone/DHA (hilarous that auto-correct want to change that to 'provolone')..


thoughts on HUNGER! yay! thanks!

Consider far free diet. Fu-ck Portion Control has advice about pulling that off. Then you get to eat ad libitum.