Dave's Recovery Log - April 2016

[skycop00]

Bag breathing helps. I will do it more regularly.

That's interesting. I wish I could help people outside of being a doctor; the problem is that nobody listens to people without credentials. I'm passionate about medicine, so I can't imagine another field for me. Maybe research would be something I could look into.

Could you elaborate a little more if you don't mind?

Day 3 (4/7/2016)

View attachment 2526

My thermometer broke, and I ordered a new one.

Symptoms: Panic attacks, dizziness, anxiety, hypertension, chest pain, scalp sensitivity, muscle twitches, neck pain, back pain

For me I was in Aviation for ovcr 30 years! I actually attained a biology degree in the early 90s and applied to 2 Medical Schools with no luck. So I stayed in aviation and retired 2 years ago. I started a small health coaching business with some training in Functional Medicine and then decided I have enough energy for one more shot. So I enrolled in a private Nursing College with hopes of continuing to be a Nurse Practitioner. Lofty goals for 52 years old, but I am a young 52....+) Anyways, as I sat in classes and listen to the "Indoctrination" I always just kept my mouth shut and kept my eye on the prize. The day I figured it was not for me was a Rotational Day and a local hospital and morning medication pass. A 77 year old man hypoxic and wanting to die. I looked at the long medication list and my head was spinning. This was NOT HEALTH CARE at all. It was sick care and I just didn't want to do it anymore. I always had the dream of being a "DIFFERENT" type of practitioner, but that where the dream ends. SO now, I listen, I take courses online that are helping me help others, and I join forums to keep my mind open to the possibilities. I am only 3 months into Peating but I am learning a lot and very much appreciative of the varying opinions.

 

[thegiantess]

@DaveFoster Gosh. I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. I can relate on many levels. You seem incredibly well informed and articulate for a 19 year old. I too wanted to be a doctor, but I made several bad decisions along the way, which were informed by my past. I have recently decided to enroll in a Masters program for addictions counseling. Still helping, but not quite as credentialed Anyway, I don't regret where I am now, but of course I wonder what might have been. I wish you the best in your pursuits both health and academic. While I agree with the other poster that it's probably pretty tough to be as helpful as you would like to be as a doctor, sometimes all people need is someone to listen to them. I have had a few amazing doctors in my life who weren't extremely knowledgeable about nutrition, but were incredibly good at listening and making me feel like I had valid concerns and ideas. That's worth a lot. Anyway. Godspeed.

 

[Diokine]

Do you know how long it usually takes for sympathetic responses to go away? It's been about 12 days.

Bro I've been dealing with excessive andregenic activity for years, this **** just doesn't go away for some people....

I'd say when your looking at tendency towards anxiety, panic attacks, tachycardia, chest pain, your essentially dealing with a disregulation of the bodies ability to perceive how much energy it's got available and it's ability to control that energy. A perceived drop in energy (whether real or exaggerated) can quickly lead to feelings of panic and hyperventilation in someone who has excessive vagal tone, under the influence of mostly serotonin and some others. Problems are especially apparent when the liver is either not able to receive the signal to correct hypoglycemia, or it is not able to meet demands (deficits in glycogen or deficiencies in processing it, excess parathyroid from calcium/phosphorus, whatever.) Vagal nerve tone is mediated by acetylcholine, histamine, serotonin. Serotonin also controls the livers function intimately.

Getting this system back into a healthy state requires lowering the excessive activation of the vagus nerve. Lowering the influence of serotonin and histamine, keeping the liver healthy, making sure energy production follows appropriate circadian rhythm, etc. Cells under the influence of histamine and consequently estrogen will also be impaired from efficient metabolism, and will compound problems with maintaining proper cellular energy reserves. Of course under prolonged stress mineralcorticoids and cortisol will rise. Adrenergic activity will rise in an attempt to improve vascular tone. CO2 production will be decreased.

 

[DaveFoster]

Dave, my health was terrible and it ALL turned around with Buteyko. I mean, everything. I stopped many medications and have been healthy to this day. And I've helped LOTS of people with this. I have zero doubt that you will be a different person. I'd pursue it with a Frolov or Breathslim device, and work at it, and you will find amazing changes. I've had much greater improvement with that than anything in my whole life.

That's very intriguing, good to hear. What do you personally use; the Frolov or Breathslim?

It would make sense that it has such a powerful impact; Peat himself says that one of the primary reasons for raising the metabolic rate is to increase blood CO2 levels, so doing so directly would be just as powerful. Together would be bulletproof, and better than the coffee.

For me I was in Aviation for ovcr 30 years! I actually attained a biology degree in the early 90s and applied to 2 Medical Schools with no luck. So I stayed in aviation and retired 2 years ago. I started a small health coaching business with some training in Functional Medicine and then decided I have enough energy for one more shot. So I enrolled in a private Nursing College with hopes of continuing to be a Nurse Practitioner. Lofty goals for 52 years old, but I am a young 52....+) Anyways, as I sat in classes and listen to the "Indoctrination" I always just kept my mouth shut and kept my eye on the prize. The day I figured it was not for me was a Rotational Day and a local hospital and morning medication pass. A 77 year old man hypoxic and wanting to die. I looked at the long medication list and my head was spinning. This was NOT HEALTH CARE at all. It was sick care and I just didn't want to do it anymore. I always had the dream of being a "DIFFERENT" type of practitioner, but that where the dream ends. SO now, I listen, I take courses online that are helping me help others, and I join forums to keep my mind open to the possibilities. I am only 3 months into Peating but I am learning a lot and very much appreciative of the varying opinions.

Thanks for sharing. I'm worried about that kind of environment as well. Maybe I'll look into becoming a naturopath, but I'm really wanting to become an endocrinologist, so I can make a very immediate difference in people's lives through hormonal management via diet, supplements, lifestyle changes, and of course steroidal supplements. I also need something to pay the bills, of course.

I'd say when your looking at tendency towards anxiety, panic attacks, tachycardia, chest pain, your essentially dealing with a disregulation of the bodies ability to perceive how much energy it's got available and it's ability to control that energy. A perceived drop in energy (whether real or exaggerated) can quickly lead to feelings of panic and hyperventilation in someone who has excessive vagal tone, under the influence of mostly serotonin and some others. Problems are especially apparent when the liver is either not able to receive the signal to correct hypoglycemia, or it is not able to meet demands (deficits in glycogen or deficiencies in processing it, excess parathyroid from calcium/phosphorus, whatever.) Vagal nerve tone is mediated by acetylcholine, histamine, serotonin. Serotonin also controls the livers function intimately.

Getting this system back into a healthy state requires lowering the excessive activation of the vagus nerve. Lowering the influence of serotonin and histamine, keeping the liver healthy, making sure energy production follows appropriate circadian rhythm, etc. Cells under the influence of histamine and consequently estrogen will also be impaired from efficient metabolism, and will compound problems with maintaining proper cellular energy reserves. Of course under prolonged stress mineralcorticoids and cortisol will rise. Adrenergic activity will rise in an attempt to improve vascular tone. CO2 production will be decreased.

I agree with everything that you've said. Although I dislike Ativan (lorazepam, a benzodiazepine), a similar situation happened about three weeks ago, where they put me on Klonopin. My problems completely resolved with the help of Klonopin. The drug allowed me to relax and allow healing to take place, and it removed hindrances to my appetite and sleep quality.

Benzos seem to be a very powerful reset button; they kill the stress response, lower a whole host of hormones (mainly pro-inflammatory and tied to the sympathetic nervous system), and they do so by utilizing the GABAergic system, protective effects of which Peat has mentioned. They're very powerful, very helpful, and everyone should be scared of addiction to these drugs.

@DaveFoster Gosh. I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. I can relate on many levels. You seem incredibly well informed and articulate for a 19 year old. I too wanted to be a doctor, but I made several bad decisions along the way, which were informed by my past. I have recently decided to enroll in a Masters program for addictions counseling. Still helping, but not quite as credentialed Anyway, I don't regret where I am now, but of course I wonder what might have been. I wish you the best in your pursuits both health and academic. While I agree with the other poster that it's probably pretty tough to be as helpful as you would like to be as a doctor, sometimes all people need is someone to listen to them. I have had a few amazing doctors in my life who weren't extremely knowledgeable about nutrition, but were incredibly good at listening and making me feel like I had valid concerns and ideas. That's worth a lot. Anyway. Godspeed.

Thanks for sharing your story. I've thought about going into the psychology route, but I'm too technical for that, I think. Maybe psychiatry, but they like to prescribe SSRI's like candy.

 

[Blossom]

Maybe a D.O. (osteopath) would be worth looking into. Many of them have a more holistic approach and incorporate measures beyond the conventional scope of medicine but they have an equivalent license to an M.D. so they can prescribe and practice similarly if they choose. I've known D.O.'s that practice with a 'Functional Medicine' approach and others who practice the same as the typical M.D. so that might give you more flexibility? You can still choose a specialty as well.

 

[DaveFoster]

Maybe a D.O. (osteopath) would be worth looking into. Many of them have a more holistic approach and incorporate measures beyond the conventional scope of medicine but they have an equivalent license to an M.D. so they can prescribe and practice similarly if they choose. I've known D.O.'s that practice with a 'Functional Medicine' approach and others who practice the same as the typical M.D. so that might give you more flexibility? You can still choose a specialty as well.

Thanks for the recommendation. I did a quick search on osteopath, and they seem to resemble physical therapists. I think a naturopath would be more my style, and the salary is comfortable, if not as high as the other doctors.

Day 4 (4/8/2016)

Symptoms: Panic attacks, anxiety, chest pain, muscle twitches, malaise, hair loss, tachycardia

Appetite is returning, and despite only using 16 mg cypro, I'm about where I was before. The lorazepam helps a lot, but I'll only use it if absolutely necessary. The most helpful thing seems to be salt and deep breathing.

I'd just like to say how thankful I am for all the help you guys have provided. I hope I'll recover from this.

 

[Blossom]

Thanks for the recommendation. I did a quick search on osteopath, and they seem to resemble physical therapists. I think a naturopath would be more my style, and the salary is comfortable, if not as high as the other doctors.

The best Pulmonologist and medical director of one hospital I worked at was an osteopath so don't let all the skeletal manipulation stuff scare you off. I don't think many of them focus on that aspect these days. You would have the same prescribing, diagnostic and treatment capabilities as an MD but it would open the door to practicing more alternative things like dietary and other lifestyle interventions that are often frowned upon in conventional medicine. Naturopath sounds like something good to consider as well but they can't prescribe drugs and I get the impression you are the type that would like to utilize as many healing modalities as possible (even drugs if necessary). I'm so thrilled you are exploring all your options and I know you will help many people no matter what you choose!

 

[Birdie]

I was pre-med years ago, and after a couple of years of it got so tired of the drugs only approach being assumed.

And all the teachers, all the students, the TAs held the drug only approach. I take that back.

The thing that kept me from going the D.O. route was the distance, about 2 hours from me.
I had never lived away from my home area.

My last idea was to become a nutrition oriented dentist. I joined a Holistic Pre-Dental Club.
An acquaintance in practice (interested in nutrition) encouraged me. But, my father backed out on the funding there.

So, chiropractic it ended up. What I didn't like, and you might not either, was the business end. All the paperwork. Treating the patients I loved.

I didn't consider naturopathic since it was not licensed in my state. My impression is that it would be similar to chiropractic in the business part. Starting your own business I mean.

It is good that you are considering different careers and have people on this forum, like those above, to give good advice.

 

[Koveras]

My experience with Osteopathic is that the old ones kept to a more natural approach, but now drugs are emphasized.
However, I went to one who was great at manipulation when I lived on Vancouver Island. He had no interest in nutrition or health otherwise tho.

The thing that kept me from going the D.O. route was the distance, about 2 hours from me.
I had never lived away from my home area. My last idea was to become a nutrition oriented dentist.
An acquaintance with a practice in Newport Beach was going to help me. But, my father backed out on the funding there.
So, chiropractic it was using loans.

The practice of osteopathy varies by nation.

In Canada they are not licensed to prescribe drugs, so most of the education is centred around hands-on treatment and manipulation.

In the US they spend a similar number of hours being educated, but more of that is devoted to the use of drugs, and less to physical therapy per se.

 

[DaveFoster]

@Blossom Thank you, Blossom. I hope I can make a difference. This information brought by Peat needs to be understood.

@Birdie Thanks for sharing. I understand the emphasis on drugs now; I mean, they work well in the short-term, but chronically, depending on the drug, they can cause some problems.

Day 5 (4/9/2016)

Symptoms: Chest pain, dizziness, tachycardia, anxiety, hair loss, morning sickness. lethargy

Day 6 (4/10/2016)

Symptoms: Nausea, dizziness, anxiety, hair loss, lethargy

I'm cutting down on cypro, and I think I'll do a more rapid taper, such as 8, 6, 4, 2, and 1.

My symptoms seem to be getting better. Salt and Buteyko breathing helps with minimizing chest pain and dizziness. Sugar also helps. The nausea is probably the worst part at this point. I can't really eat before noon, but I'm fine later in the day.

 

[James_001]

Sorry to hear that, James.

It's kind of nice to hear that, though. You're still alive, so a month of stress won't be impossible to deal with.

What's helped the most for you? Whenever I try to lower the stress response with supplements, I end up almost passing out and going to the ER.

Having fun and not trying to worry so much helps the most. If you're going the drug route phenibut works wonders.

 

[Birdie]

@Birdie Thanks for sharing. I understand the emphasis on drugs now; I mean, they work well in the short-term, but chronically, depending on the drug, they can cause some problems.



I'm not against drugs. Just question the attitude that drugs are often the only answer for health problems.
Glad chest pain and dizziness improving.

 

[Sheik]

Do you ever find yourself just not wanting to eat due to the lack of variety in your diet? I've wanted to try a similar, minimalistic diet, but it seems counterintuitive and unnatural.

 

[tara]

The most helpful thing seems to be salt and deep breathing.

Salt and Buteyko breathing helps with minimizing chest pain and dizziness.

I tend to think of Buteyko breathing as being the opposite of deep breathing. Did you change your approach, or am I misunderstanding something here?

 

[DaveFoster]

Do you ever find yourself just not wanting to eat due to the lack of variety in your diet? I've wanted to try a similar, minimalistic diet, but it seems counterintuitive and unnatural.

I find that when I'm not feeling well, I crave variety. If I'm not stressed, I do very well on a simple diet, and I usually feel better. As long as you get all of your macronutrients and micronutrients, your environment will dictate your health.

I tend to think of Buteyko breathing as being the opposite of deep breathing. Did you change your approach, or am I misunderstanding something here?

You're correct. I didn't realize that I was doing a different method before now; I was breathing very deep, holding it for a while, and then exhaling with pursed lips in a very constrained stream of air.

Buteyko is almost like not breathing.

 

[DaveFoster]

Day 7 (4/11/2016)

Symptoms: Mild chest pain, morning nausea, scalp sensitivity (possible hair shedding), nipple pain/sensitivity, anxiety

 

[tara]

I didn't realize that I was doing a different method before now; I was breathing very deep, holding it for a while, and then exhaling with pursed lips in a very constrained stream of air.

I can imagine that could have a helpful effect too - effectively slowing down the rate and raising CO2.

 

[DaveFoster]

@tara It did, but Buteyko is nothing short of amazing. Complete mitigation of all symptoms, save some minor anxiety and scalp sensitivity.

Day 8 (4/12/16)

Symptoms: Very mild chest pain, anxiety, scalp and nipple sensitivity, nausea

 

[Birdie]

Good news there. I do the mouth taping most nights.
I suppose you are bag breathing some, also.

 

[tara]

@tara It did, but Buteyko is nothing short of amazing. Complete mitigation of all symptoms, save some minor anxiety and scalp sensitivity.

Excellent.