Bitcoin as opt out money, defensive technology.

[eat my peat]

No one knows, just like no one knows how high Bitcoin goes in the future.

This message - simply profound. Have had to send you a pm.

 

[nigma]

Hello, Yes I have heard of the lightning network. The downside of lightning network is that its centralized and it can only handle a very small amount of bitcoin. This layer also goes on top of the bitcoin network so you don't solve the very resource inefficient PoW. Also lets not forget bitcoin doesnt have smart contracting so this would make it even harder to be used for real uses cases.

As for the price inflation. Have a look at the tether market cap increase over the last months. They started printing out of thin air. Tether is a china based company and they don't handle US customers. 80% of the inflow into bitcoin is through tether. Its not just bitcoin thats being manipulated by tether but basically all crypto that have a usdt trading pair.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not against crypto at all. There are just way better cryptos out there who do the job bitcoin does better and more resource efficient. For example Algorand. Low fees, high scalability and PPOS which makes the network more secure.

The lightning network is not centralised, it is run by at the moment by over 10,000 nodes. Its current capacity is over 2000 btc (~$100 million), as this is a growing network it will continue to grow. Proof of work is not inefficient, only the amount of energy people voluntarily decide to use to secure the network is how much energy is used, there is no fixed value. Bitcoin does have smart contracts actually, both on layer 1 and layer 2. Twitter and Square are adding lightning support for all their users.

If you like, I can send you 1000 sats to prove lightning network is working well. Download a bitcoin wallet like wallet of satoshi and I will send you some.


Current state of lightning network: The Lightning Network Is Bigger Than You Think

Tether is not any concern in comparison to the printing of the US dollar by central banks.

Every crypto claims their coin is better than bitcoin for the same reason, low fees and scalability. These have been solved by the lightning network, it is operational now and getting larger constantly, to the point that now El Salvador is employing it. See video below:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xOGSzUuJJg

 

[nigma]

Right now, if anyone is accepting crypto payments, it's known that fees on Bitcoin and Eth are ridiculous. The recommendations I've heard is to pay in Bitcoin Cash or Litecoin, as both are very cheap fee wise, and settle quickly. Bitcoin has been dealing with this fee issue since (at least) 2017, and the Lightning Network is still just "months away."

Bitcoin transaction fees on the base layer are a free market, i.e. competitive, if someone wants to pay $10 for a billion dollar transaction, obvioulsly that outcompetes with someone else's $5 coffee purchase. For the last 2 months, fees have actually been under 50 cents on the base layer. But more and more small transactions are being done on the lightning network, which is not months away, its been working for the last year at scale, see my above post.

If you want to see, I will send you 1000 sats to prove my point, its almost instant and very low fee.

 

[eat my peat]

want to revive this thread - do people see a future where cryptocurrency prevents govermnet intervention or is a matter of time before they took control over it ...

 

[Makrosky]

The obsession with BTC's relation to traditional stores of value is preventing a lot of progress imo. Crypto in general is being adopted as a less regulated, off color trading scheme. I am not completely bullish on BTC as the tech could be improved upon, but the central philosophy is vital to what continues to be an increasingly tighter authoritarian grasp on the individual.

Very true. Only bad thing I see with Monero is that it doesn't serve as a "reserve of value" or "investment" or anything. Its use is only to buy things, and not very expensive ones.

 

[tankasnowgod]

want to revive this thread - do people see a future where cryptocurrency prevents govermnet intervention or is a matter of time before they took control over it ...

I guess it depends on what you mean.

Governments already can't stop the bigger cryptos. I don't think they even want to.

However, they can manipulate/control it through other means. Releasing stories in the media. Threatening to ban it. That sort of thing.

But the most direct tool will be through the exchanges. Pretty much everyone uses something like Coinbase or Bitstamp as a fiat gateway, an on and off ramp. They already have the ability to regulate businesses like that, and with bigger banks like Goldman Slacks getting more and more involved in the crypto space, you'll likely see more regulation/control.

In THE UNITED STATES, you will likely still be using Federal Reserve Notes, so still availing yourself of that benefit/privilege, and subjecting yourself to the Federal Reserve's rule (most governments are really doing the Bankster's bidding. They have to listen to their creditors, since they are sooooo deeply in debt).

But, if you were to do private transactions, like Bitcoin to Bitcoin, Litecoin to Ether, or Bitcoin Cash direct to Silver, they wouldn't have any authority over that.

 

[eat my peat]

I guess it depends on what you mean.

Governments already can't stop the bigger cryptos. I don't think they even want to.

However, they can manipulate/control it through other means. Releasing stories in the media. Threatening to ban it. That sort of thing.

But the most direct tool will be through the exchanges. Pretty much everyone uses something like Coinbase or Bitstamp as a fiat gateway, an on and off ramp. They already have the ability to regulate businesses like that, and with bigger banks like Goldman Slacks getting more and more involved in the crypto space, you'll likely see more regulation/control.

In THE UNITED STATES, you will likely still be using Federal Reserve Notes, so still availing yourself of that benefit/privilege, and subjecting yourself to the Federal Reserve's rule (most governments are really doing the Bankster's bidding. They have to listen to their creditors, since they are sooooo deeply in debt).

But, if you were to do private transactions, like Bitcoin to Bitcoin, Litecoin to Ether, or Bitcoin Cash direct to Silver, they wouldn't have any authority over that.

I see I see - i guess i was wondering with the direction we seem to be going in with the direction of crypto

one could assume that the two worlds could collide

 

[tankasnowgod]

I see I see - i guess i was wondering with the direction we seem to be going in with the direction of crypto

one could assume that the two worlds could collide

What do you mean "the two worlds could collide?" Governments and Crypto? Banks and Crypto?

You realize there are many stories out that suggesting that the US government (or parts of it) created it, or created it with other governments?

You realize banks have been in crypto for a while now, correct?

And what do you mean "going in with the direction of crypto?"

 

[Lollipop2]

You realize there are many stories out that suggesting that the US government (or parts of it) created it, or created it with other governments?

You realize banks have been in crypto for a while now, correct?

+1 BTC is highly controlled. My husband has been saying this for like 7 years - I was big into BTC before we married. He kept saying the swings are not natural, something is off. Now tether has become a vast speculation wasteland that I fear some will lose everything.

 

[Aad]

Bitcoin is the biggest ponzi scheme in the history of the world. I'm glad it will all implode very soon. Get out while you can.

 

[jnklheimer]

Bitcoin is the biggest ponzi scheme in the history of the world. I'm glad it will all implode very soon. Get out while you can.

Do you even know what a ponzi is?

 

[tankasnowgod]

Bitcoin is the biggest ponzi scheme in the history of the world. I'm glad it will all implode very soon. Get out while you can.

Nah, not even close. That would have to be Federal Reserve Notes. The Fed even puts out documentation telling everyone that their currency has no intrinsic value. Or Maybe the stock market, or derivatives. The amount invested in all of crypto is tiny, compared to all of those things.

And when you say "implode," what do you mean? Lose 80-90% of it's value? The network goes down? It goes to zero?

 

[gaze]

View: https://cryptowhale.medium.com/the-tether-scandal-the-biggest-threat-to-the-crypto-ecosystem-23a169003205


bitcoin is gonna fall . i agree with @Aad to get out while you can. bitcoin itself is not a ponzi, but it's propped up by one of the largest financial scams in history

 

[tankasnowgod]

+1 BTC is highly controlled. My husband has been saying this for like 7 years - I was big into BTC before we married. He kept saying the swings are not natural, something is off. Now tether has become a vast speculation wasteland that I fear some will lose everything.

True, there is a lot of control and manipulation in Bitcoin. But that's true of everything else you can put your money in, too. Gold, Silver, Diamonds, the Stock Market, Real Estate...... even the things with "intrinsic value" don't trade on that value, they trade on perceived value. Lot's of things can be done to manipulate this.

I don't know if the swings are that unnatural, they mainly look bigger. But if you compare it to the stock market, you'd have to compare it to something that didn't split, like Berkshire Hathaway. Plus, it's a brand new asset class, so it would have a lot more growth than something like IBM, which has been around forever.

I don't know who's speculating in Tether, it's tied to the dollar. Why hold that over Federal Reserve Notes? I've heard rumors of Tether going down for years now, I think it will probably happen, which could be the next Bear Market trigger. People "Tethering Off" their profits and holding them there might be risking a lot. Something like USDC might be safer.

The Hunt Brothers lost a lot of money investing in Silver. People will lose money in crypto, sure, but some will make money, too. People seem to be wired to "Buy High, Sell Low." They make terrible investments and choices all the time, in every market. The commercial world is setup to take an individual's money, by default. And most people just go with the default, because it's easy.

 

[Lollipop2]

People seem to be wired to "Buy High, Sell Low." They make terrible investments and choices all the time, in every market. The commercial world is setup to take an individual's money, by default. And most people just go with the default, because it's easy.

So true. ?

 

[tankasnowgod]

View: https://cryptowhale.medium.com/the-tether-scandal-the-biggest-threat-to-the-crypto-ecosystem-23a169003205


bitcoin is going ? get out while you can. bitcoin itself is not a ponzi, but it's propped up by Tether, one of the largest financial scams in history

But when is it going down? Is it going up first? And what's it going down to? If someone brought at $19,000 back in 2017, and held and sold in April 2021, they still did incredibly well, even though it was down around $3300 for a while.

 

[gaze]

But when is it going down? Is it going up first? And what's it going down to? If someone brought at $19,000 back in 2017, and held and sold in April 2021, they still did incredibly well, even though it was down around $3300 for a while.

Tether is tied up with the chinese credit scandal, evergrande et al. a lot of its assets are backed by chinese companies. may go down sooner rather than later

 

[Lollipop2]

View: https://cryptowhale.medium.com/the-tether-scandal-the-biggest-threat-to-the-crypto-ecosystem-23a169003205


bitcoin is going ? get out while you can. bitcoin itself is not a ponzi, but it's propped up by Tether, one of the largest financial scams in history

Tether seems fundamentally so wrong and like @tankasnowgod said it is tied to the dollar. That makes no sense.

 

[Lollipop2]

Tether is tied up with the chinese credit scandal, evergrande et al. a lot of its assets are backed by chinese companies. may go down sooner rather than later

That is interesting. What happened in the Evergrande scandal - someone called in their tether on a massive scale?

 

[gaze]

That is interesting. What happened in the Evergrande scandal - someone called in their tether on a massive scale?

no, evergrande is just a typical over leveraged chinese developer. the problem is many other chinese companies are in similar financial predicimanets, and tether is one of the largest holders of chinese commercial paper, which is basically they hold a ton of chinese debt. as more and more chinese companies default or go down, tether is at a high risk of being exposed in the contagion. if tether goes down, all of crypto falls