Bioavailability, Androgenicity, And Estrogenicity Of DHEA

[narouz]

10mg; the capsule is 25mg, so I must eyeball two-fifths.

I guess it was haidut who recently posted about DHEA--
not exceeding...was it 5mg at a time?
So I've been doing that--swallowing it, I mean.
Can't say I notice much...but could just be my natural dullness. :)

I'll try 5mg under the tongue.

 

[Such_Saturation]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95756/

10mg; the capsule is 25mg, so I must eyeball two-fifths.

I guess it was haidut who recently posted about DHEA--
not exceeding...was it 5mg at a time?
So I've been doing that--swallowing it, I mean.
Can't say I notice much...but could just be my natural dullness. :)

I'll try 5mg under the tongue.

10mg

 

[narouz]

10mg

You're sayin' 10mg is the lowest dose I should do under the tongue
if I want to experience an experience...?

 

[Such_Saturation]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95761/

10mg

You're sayin' 10mg is the lowest dose I should do under the tongue
if I want to experience an experience...?

I'm just relaying information, I'm putting my life in haidut's hands on this one

 

[haidut]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95762/

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95761/

10mg

You're sayin' 10mg is the lowest dose I should do under the tongue
if I want to experience an experience...?

I'm just relaying information, I'm putting my life in haidut's hands on this one

You are doomed
JK, I also tried 10mg sublingual and I get an immediate mental boost and anabolic effect on muscles but the latter is more delayed than with topical appplication.

 

[narouz]

I could've sworn you said recently only 5mg DHEA at a whack, haidut.
Maybe you did but that was for oral dosing.
I will try 10mg under my tongue and brace for amazement...

 

[Such_Saturation]

Has anyone tried DHEA with methylene blue?

 

[haidut]

I could've sworn you said recently only 5mg DHEA at a whack, haidut.
Maybe you did but that was for oral dosing.
I will try 10mg under my tongue and brace for amazement...

Yes, I said 5mg for oral. I tried 10mg sublingual to see if I can reproduce the effects Such got. My usual intake of DHEA is topical as per the studies.

 

[Such_Saturation]

But what about

So, what is the catch? This studies shows the that the estrogenic effects of DHEA start manifesting only at concentrations of 500nM or higher. A single dose of 15mg of DHEA results in concentrations slightly higher than 500nM, so Ray's recommendations at 10mg being the cutoff for non-estrogenic effects seem spot on.

 

[haidut]

But what about

So, what is the catch? This studies shows the that the estrogenic effects of DHEA start manifesting only at concentrations of 500nM or higher. A single dose of 15mg of DHEA results in concentrations slightly higher than 500nM, so Ray's recommendations at 10mg being the cutoff for non-estrogenic effects seem spot on.

Those are Ray's recommendations - he said in an interview "never more than 10mg at once" or something along those line. My recommendations are not more than 5mg oral, based on the studies I have seen. The 10mg sublingual was just a one time experiment. My supplements have 5mg per dose as well.

 

[Such_Saturation]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96052/

But what about

So, what is the catch? This studies shows the that the estrogenic effects of DHEA start manifesting only at concentrations of 500nM or higher. A single dose of 15mg of DHEA results in concentrations slightly higher than 500nM, so Ray's recommendations at 10mg being the cutoff for non-estrogenic effects seem spot on.

Those are Ray's recommendations - he said in an interview "never more than 10mg at once" or something along those line. My recommendations are not more than 5mg oral, based on the studies I have seen. The 10mg sublingual was just a one time experiment. My supplements have 5mg per dose as well.

Do you think there is a risk at 10mg?

 

[haidut]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96062/

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96052/

But what about

So, what is the catch? This studies shows the that the estrogenic effects of DHEA start manifesting only at concentrations of 500nM or higher. A single dose of 15mg of DHEA results in concentrations slightly higher than 500nM, so Ray's recommendations at 10mg being the cutoff for non-estrogenic effects seem spot on.

Those are Ray's recommendations - he said in an interview "never more than 10mg at once" or something along those line. My recommendations are not more than 5mg oral, based on the studies I have seen. The 10mg sublingual was just a one time experiment. My supplements have 5mg per dose as well.

Do you think there is a risk at 10mg?

I think single-dose is probably OK - i.e. if this is the only dose of DHEA you are taking for the day. But if a person takes 10mg three times a day then they'll probably convert some of that into estrogen and how much depends on how hypothyroid and/or overweight they are.

 

[haidut]

I just stumbled upon yet another study showing androgenic effects of DHEA. This study is in vitro and used Leydig cells as a model. This should serve as a good model of what would happen if DHEA was delivered directly into the testicles, which a topical application of DHEA on the scrotum should be able to achieve. The study is free, so those interested in the effects can read the whole thing. Bottom line, DHEA converted mostly into testosterone and lowered aromatase expression. However, this latter effect was something the authors thought may be due to increased estrogen initiating negative feedback. They did not find increased levels of estrogen, but I am throwing it out there to be cautious about. The lowest dose of DHEA used, which corresponds to about 6mg oral dose for a human, increased testosterone but did not change aormatase or estrogen. So, even though the effects on testosterone from 6mg DHEA were not as big as the 600mg dose there were also no estrogenic effects either.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26184424
http://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/430150

"...CONCLUSION: These findings demonstrate that (a) exogenous DHEA might preferentially convert to testosterone rather than estradiol due to the up-regulation of 3β-HSD and 17β-HSD protein levels and the down-regulation of aromatase protein level in primary Leydig cells, and (b) the action of DHEA is at least partly associated with the elevation of p-ERK1/2 and p-CREB protein levels."

 

[PUTFOT]

So, this means getting 7mg+ of DHT from 15mg DHEA daily

a healthy young male produces around 0.1mg DHT per day

This is crazy @haidut

This is endogenous conversion/production of dht as well so no suppression!!!

 

[PUTFOT]

have seen several official sources claim that a healthy young male produces around 0.1mg DHT per day.

Seems low. Can you share source?

 

[PUTFOT]

@haidut Does this say how much dht is produced?

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/pdf/10.1210/jcem.86.12.8078

 

[haidut]

@haidut Does this say how much dht is produced?

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/pdf/10.1210/jcem.86.12.8078

If you found the study, why don't you look inside and find out? Why ask me when you found a possible source?

 

[johnwester130]

I think Dhea in DMSO is dangerous because it is too much,

 

[sladerunner69]

If you found the study, why don't you look inside and find out? Why ask me when you found a possible source?

LOL you have become a cultural authority, individuals have abandoned mainstream medicine only to put all of their faith in your words. I think it is going to be difficult to truly get people to think for themselves and take their health into their own hands, especially when theyve been conditioned through culture to not trust themselves. Or maybe that is just human nature for most people.

 

[haidut]

LOL you have become a cultural authority, individuals have abandoned mainstream medicine only to put all of their faith in your words. I think it is going to be difficult to truly get people to think for themselves and take their health into their own hands, especially when theyve been conditioned through culture to not trust themselves. Or maybe that is just human nature for most people.

Lol, I really hope I am not becoming a cultural authority. The very idea of good health is for people to be free and independent of any authority.