Bald Guy Regrows Hair With Birth Control Pills

[mrchibbs]

So you think just because women are not born with fully formed breasts and men not born with beards that these characteristics are not driven by genes?

I don't think your analogy works. Moreover, I think I remember seeing evidence that sex is determined by environmental influences during early gestation, not genes. In fact we can explain very little with the genetic perspective.

 

[JKX]

I would still argue the genes themselves do not change from birth. A child is born male or female with the getetic material predisposed to that particular sex.

Why do you think anything genetically would change to suddenly dictate breast growth or beard hair growth?

Surely these changes are just the result of a response to hormonal changes triggering puberty? Ray has already presented good arguments for puberty being triggered by accumulation of PUFA and the rise in estrogen associated with that.

Do you hold a different opinion?

 

[Collden]

Genes interact with environment to determine development, they are both essential parts of the equation. If environment was all that mattered we'd see far more malleability. E.g. a Nordic couple who moves to the middle east and make a baby there would see it growing up looking like the locals - this does not happen.

Genes don't directly cause breasts or beards to grow but they do set the stage for the development that will take place and determine how other factors will influence development.

I should clarify I think hormones are the main direct cause of baldness, but the hormonal milieu is to a large extent shaped by your genes and your development.

I mean in many cases men who by all other metrics are very healthy become bald while very sick men retain their hair so its really problematic to try and formulate a theory that baldness is always or even mostly caused by poor health, unless your very definition of poor health is the loss of hair. In many cases it IS more accurate to describe baldness as just a normal feature of healthy male development, similar to beard growth or chest hair.

 

[mrchibbs]

I mean in many cases men who by all other metrics are very healthy become bald while very sick men retain their hair so its really problematic to try and formulate a theory that baldness is always or even mostly caused by poor health, unless your very definition of poor health is the loss of hair. In many cases it IS more accurate to describe baldness as just a normal feature of healthy male development, similar to beard growth or chest hair.

Absolutely not. Genes don't play any role. Heredity in the form of transgenerational effects, yes, not the genes themselves. There is nothing in the gene sequence which determines hair loss, at any age, and baldness is not a normal feature of healthy male development. If it was, there would not be any correlation with the other markers of metabolic disease. Chest/body hair can increase way past puberty after a stress, and is driven by the excessive pumping of DHEA by the adrenals itself, not by DHT. Haidut has covered this in other threads.

 

[Ras]

I think I remember seeing evidence that sex is determined by environmental influences during early gestation, not genes.

Are you saying that having a Y chromosome does not determine a human's sex?

 

[restinpeace]

Guys is it really too hard to understand that mpb is caused by imbalances between t/e2 t/dht and lack of shbg. High t low e2 baaam you will have ***t hair quality low t high e2 you will have some hair but those hairs will be as thin as that guy's hairs. Superthick dense hair is by product of high test normal to high sbhg normal to high e2 and normal to high dht. It is the deficiency of shbg and androgens that are roaming freely in the body. All the benefits of testosterone are not because of it is free form it is the shbg bound t that is effeciently used by body. If there is not enough of t and shbg you will start to grow hair on your unwanted parts of your body, become more emotional and lose your sex drive. Too high shbg is also bad if total t does not follow it which it does in general, shbg around 30-45 and total t around 850-1100 with e2 in 25-35 and dht at around 60-100 are the ideal numbers. The reason finasteride works is it increases t, shbg and e2 substantially which are good for hair and for those who are not benefiting from it do have low shbg and total t despite finasteride. Some people also report increased shedding and scalp itch on finasteride those people had increase in t and free t but their shbg did not increase. To gain benefits of t dht and e2 (all of those are good for hair)they all should be bound to shbg to a degree to exhibit positive results such as good libido confidence sex drive life energy. And yes body hair in terms of chest, shoulders and back hair does mean lowered shbg lowered total t higher free t higher free e2 and higher free dht. To avoid this have low body fat and eat high fiber diet mostly consists of fruits vegetables nuts seeds and little amount of animal food from some beef liver eggs and starches and always seperate carbs and fat consumption do not consume both at the same time, when 2 consumed at the same time they cause too high of an insulin productin which lowers shbg and total t and increases free hormones too much.

 

[mrchibbs]

Are you saying that having a Y chromosome does not determine a human's sex?

I'm saying that I read somewhere that the embryos' DNAs are virtually undistinguishable until some point in early gestation. The role of environmental imprinting is far more relevant and important in setting the difference. The DNA doesn't contain all of the information, nor is it "locked in".

 

[BetterCallSaul]

Guys is it really too hard to understand that mpb is caused by imbalances between t/e2 t/dht and lack of shbg. High t low e2 baaam you will have ***t hair quality low t high e2 you will have some hair but those hairs will be as thin as that guy's hairs. Superthick dense hair is by product of high test normal to high sbhg normal to high e2 and normal to high dht. It is the deficiency of shbg and androgens that are roaming freely in the body. All the benefits of testosterone are not because of it is free form it is the shbg bound t that is effeciently used by body. If there is not enough of t and shbg you will start to grow hair on your unwanted parts of your body, become more emotional and lose your sex drive. Too high shbg is also bad if total t does not follow it which it does in general, shbg around 30-45 and total t around 850-1100 with e2 in 25-35 and dht at around 60-100 are the ideal numbers. The reason finasteride works is it increases t, shbg and e2 substantially which are good for hair and for those who are not benefiting from it do have low shbg and total t despite finasteride. Some people also report increased shedding and scalp itch on finasteride those people had increase in t and free t but their shbg did not increase. To gain benefits of t dht and e2 (all of those are good for hair)they all should be bound to shbg to a degree to exhibit positive results such as good libido confidence sex drive life energy. And yes body hair in terms of chest, shoulders and back hair does mean lowered shbg lowered total t higher free t higher free e2 and higher free dht. To avoid this have low body fat and eat high fiber diet mostly consists of fruits vegetables nuts seeds and little amount of animal food from some beef liver eggs and starches and always seperate carbs and fat consumption do not consume both at the same time, when 2 consumed at the same time they cause too high of an insulin productin which lowers shbg and total t and increases free hormones too much.

Thanks, this is exactly what I’ve been looking for. Do you have any further tips on increasing SHBG? Mine is abysmally low

 

[GorillaHead]

They don't have high progesterone. No balding men has high progesterone. No clue why he said that.

dude i have literally seen the blood work of people severely balding with high progesterone

 

[Collden]

Absolutely not. Genes don't play any role. Heredity in the form of transgenerational effects, yes, not the genes themselves. There is nothing in the gene sequence which determines hair loss, at any age, and baldness is not a normal feature of healthy male development. If it was, there would not be any correlation with the other markers of metabolic disease. Chest/body hair can increase way past puberty after a stress, and is driven by the excessive pumping of DHEA by the adrenals itself, not by DHT. Haidut has covered this in other threads.

Just being male is associated with metabolic disease. Baldness is part of the constellation of characteristics associated with high levels of male hormones, and I've yet not seen any evidence that baldness can be cured without substantially feminizing the person in other ways.

I'll concede I can't definitely prove that genes play a role in baldness, whether its genes or other immutable factors, the fact remains baldness in many cases cannot be fixed simply by improving ones health. Unless you consider maleness itself a pathological state.

 

[JKX]

Just being male is associated with metabolic disease. Baldness is part of the constellation of characteristics associated with high levels of male hormones, and I've yet not seen any evidence that baldness can be cured without substantially feminizing the person in other ways.

I'll concede I can't definitely prove that genes play a role in baldness, whether its genes or other immutable factors, the fact remains baldness in many cases cannot be fixed simply by improving ones health. Unless you consider maleness itself a pathological state.

Just being alive is associated with metabolic disease too! Regardless of sex.

Would you consider a 50 year old male to exhibit more 'maleness' than an 18 year old male? What is your definition of 'maleness'? I think thats open to debate? The health of the teenager versus the health of the 50 year old, perhaps somewhat less so in my opinion.

I agree that health improvements will not alway lead to complete restoration of the organism. Sometimes just keeping pace with degeneration could be considered a victory.

I always keep in mind the quote by Ray that 'If we learn to see problems in terms of a general disorder of energy metabolism, we can begin to solve them."

I dont think it has to be any more complicated than this. But that doesnt mean that a persons efforts will result in complete restoration of youth.

 

[Estradiol]

Just being male is associated with metabolic disease. Baldness is part of the constellation of characteristics associated with high levels of male hormones, and I've yet not seen any evidence that baldness can be cured without substantially feminizing the person in other ways.

I'll concede I can't definitely prove that genes play a role in baldness, whether its genes or other immutable factors, the fact remains baldness in many cases cannot be fixed simply by improving ones health. Unless you consider maleness itself a pathological state.

There are ton's people who have low levels of T/DHT and still bald.

 

[Estradiol]

Thanks, this is exactly what I’ve been looking for. Do you have any further tips on increasing SHBG? Mine is abysmally low

That's what birth control pills do. Increasing SHBG like %200

 

[Collden]

Just being alive is associated with metabolic disease too! Regardless of sex.

Would you consider a 50 year old male to exhibit more 'maleness' than an 18 year old male? What is your definition of 'maleness'? I think thats open to debate? The health of the teenager versus the health of the 50 year old, perhaps somewhat less so in my opinion.

I agree that health improvements will not alway lead to complete restoration of the organism. Sometimes just keeping pace with degeneration could be considered a victory.

I always keep in mind the quote by Ray that 'If we learn to see problems in terms of a general disorder of energy metabolism, we can begin to solve them."

I dont think it has to be any more complicated than this. But that doesnt mean that a persons efforts will result in complete restoration of youth.

50-year olds - sometimes.
30-year olds - definitely.

But this is also largely a question of values and subjective ideas of health. I think traditionally the standards for what is a healthy man vs a healthy woman have been quite different, youthfulness in women vs maturity in men. But as our culture is becoming more androgynous these distinctions are disappearing and everyone, men and women, are becoming obsessed with having thin waists, smooth soft skin, thick lush hair and forever looking like teenagers.

Definitely stress has a different impact on male vs female hormones, which is likely the biological basis for why we have traditionally had different health standards for men and women, and also why the ever increasing comfort of modern society is causing a decline of masculinity and a rise of femininity.

I'd say my ideal of perfect masculine health would be Sean Connery, a man who went bald in his 20s and could very well live to be a 100, but there are many examples like him.

 

[Collden]

There are ton's people who have low levels of T/DHT and still bald.

I agree, also many men with terrible hypothyroidism, metabolic syndrome, diabetes and other hormonal issues who maintain a full head of hair till they die.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

I agree, also many men with terrible hypothyroidism, metabolic syndrome, diabetes and other hormonal issues who maintain a full head of hair till they die.

That's a very bold statement.

 

[Morgan]

50-year olds - sometimes.
30-year olds - definitely.

But this is also largely a question of values and subjective ideas of health. I think traditionally the standards for what is a healthy man vs a healthy woman have been quite different, youthfulness in women vs maturity in men. But as our culture is becoming more androgynous these distinctions are disappearing and everyone, men and women, are becoming obsessed with having thin waists, smooth soft skin, thick lush hair and forever looking like teenagers.

Definitely stress has a different impact on male vs female hormones, which is likely the biological basis for why we have traditionally had different health standards for men and women, and also why the ever increasing comfort of modern society is causing a decline of masculinity and a rise of femininity.

I'd say my ideal of perfect masculine health would be Sean Connery, a man who went bald in his 20s and could very well live to be a 100, but there are many examples like him.

Right, it's a question of values and subjectivity.. I'm not sure why "traditionally" is anything to admire, look throughout history and observe the average life of people then tell me that it was somehow ideal.. Our culture is barely capitalizing on our supposed progress and somehow it's surprising that people want to maintain their youth? Especially when it is so often stolen from them in one way or another.

Culture actually demands the different impact of stress, and it's why men are guided into taking on the most dangerous or physically demanding forms of employment in order to maintain the "comfort" of modern society.. then we are baffled as to why they have a lower life expectancy on average, and a higher suicide rate.

 

[Collden]

I think femininity and masculinity are ancient undying concepts that reflect fundamental aspects of reality. Masculine energy is inherently associated with risk-taking, uncertainty and exposure to discomfort, stress and the unknown, which are necessary ingredients for a dynamic culture. So I don't think it is wise as a society to try and get rid of masculinity, and probably cannot be done in the long run anyway as a societies that get too soft for too long tend to be conquered by others, nature has a way of restoring balance.

 

[Morgan]

I think femininity and masculinity are ancient undying concepts that reflect fundamental aspects of reality. Masculine energy is inherently associated with risk-taking, uncertainty and exposure to discomfort, stress and the unknown, which are necessary ingredients for a dynamic culture. So I don't think it is wise as a society to try and get rid of masculinity, and probably cannot be done in the long run anyway as a societies that get too soft for too long tend to be conquered by others, nature has a way of restoring balance.

Masculinity and femininity are nebulous terms determined by culture, and are always described with more concrete terms.. that description is always a bit different from each person. I prefer to see them as biological terms that should only really relate to sexual function and health. Nature is actually never in balance and thrives in a state of constant instability, it is our desire for order that disrupts it, and considering we have had nearly 5 major extinction events on this little planet.. I don't really see anything admirable about "nature" nor is it something we should heedlessly emulate.

 

[mrchibbs]

That's a very bold statement.

ridiculously bold