Appetite Has Totally Tanked

[Orion]

Great post @X3CyO

@firebreather very strange, have you tried emailing RP? Sounds like this is estrogen/serotonin area, anger, mental, lots of urinating, have you done bag breathing, anyway you could get some CO2 cylinders and supplement with extra? Are you at a high altitude or close to sea level? Have you thought about lisuride or metergoline from Haidut?

 

[X3CyO]

But my appetite tanked when I tried to follow more of Peat recommendations.

I dont eat breakfast either and only really get hungry moreso around late lunch/dinner.
If youre healthy, when you peat and fast, you burn progesterone until it runs out, then cortisol. Could just be the body healing.

If sugar is causing you to lose appetite, it could be poor glycogen storage. Aka, you fill up fast and your body doesnt want anymore afterwards cause it turns to fat, and thus, leads to fat metabolism causing stress.

How does caffiene affect you?
If it makes you hyper, and your heart rate flies, and/or an anxiety of sorts arises, then that could be the awnser.

The cure would just be to stick with caffiene and slowly raising it for a while if thats the case and over time your body will adapt. Especially when eating sugar.


The fact that you have such a nice high cholesterol might not be a good thing in this situation as the whole point is to convert it to hormones. Possible organ damage of some sort could lead to poor conversion. In which case my prior post can help. It could be something nutrition wise limiting you as well.


Overall, the body needs time to heal. Peating will work over time.

If its depression, or moreso ahedonia, haidut has a lot of great posts on that.

 

[sweetpeat]

But my appetite tanked when I tried to follow more of Peat recommendations.

I was wondering along these lines: maybe you're just bored with your food? I mean, if you're trying to keep everything a little too Peat-y? Even Peat said to eat foods that are enjoyable. Maybe you need some variety or a change of pace?

 

[Dopamine]

So how many calories are you eating?

Rays food recommendations are not generally calorically dense so it is easy to under-eat without realizing it. That's my experience anyways.

Too much liquid lowers metabolism to a large degree and I think 4000 calories of liquid foods would leave me frozen and feeling terrible but if these 4000 calories come from mostly salty/solid foods I will be feeling much better. Just another thing to think about.

Also restricting fats or starch have left me cold and miserable.

I will say that personally a strict "Ray Peat diet" hasn't worked for me but Matt Stones approach is similar and I have seen lots of improvements so maybe check him out if you haven't already.

 

[firebreather]

First of all THANK YOU SO MUCH for all the great questions and insight

I have answered all the questions below:

Great post @X3CyO

@firebreather very strange, have you tried emailing RP? Sounds like this is estrogen/serotonin area, anger, mental, lots of urinating, have you done bag breathing, anyway you could get some CO2 cylinders and supplement with extra? Are you at a high altitude or close to sea level? Have you thought about lisuride or metergoline from Haidut?

I emailed him before I lost my appetite when I was dealing the just the urination, cold feet, anger, sleep issues and fatigue. But I haven't emailed him since the loss of appetite came on. He gave me a couple basic suggestions and asked if I have had my Vitamin D checked which I have several times and it's always been good.

I had my serotonin checked about 4 months ago and surprisingly while it wasn't super low it definitely wasn't near the top of the range.

I have tried bag breathing many times. I guess maybe it helps but like everything else no real noticable difference with it. If live in the midwest (Kansas City) so I guess I'm about mid level sea level. I haven't heard of the metergoline. I consideride the lisuride from Haidut but I've tried some very small doses of 1P LSD and it made me VERY irratable so I figured the lisuride might be the same. I've also tried Haidut's Ritanserin and felt nothing. Seriously I have a huge graveyard full of supps from Haidut and everywhere else that really haven't done anything for me. Which is why I'm trying to address emotional/depression stuff now.

I dont eat breakfast either and only really get hungry moreso around late lunch/dinner.
If youre healthy, when you peat and fast, you burn progesterone until it runs out, then cortisol. Could just be the body healing.

If sugar is causing you to lose appetite, it could be poor glycogen storage. Aka, you fill up fast and your body doesnt want anymore afterwards cause it turns to fat, and thus, leads to fat metabolism causing stress.

How does caffiene affect you?
If it makes you hyper, and your heart rate flies, and/or an anxiety of sorts arises, then that could be the awnser.

The cure would just be to stick with caffiene and slowly raising it for a while if thats the case and over time your body will adapt. Especially when eating sugar.


The fact that you have such a nice high cholesterol might not be a good thing in this situation as the whole point is to convert it to hormones. Possible organ damage of some sort could lead to poor conversion. In which case my prior post can help. It could be something nutrition wise limiting you as well.


Overall, the body needs time to heal. Peating will work over time.

If its depression, or moreso ahedonia, haidut has a lot of great posts on that.

I used to get a nice little boost and motivation from caffeine but now I barely feel anything from it. I feal nearly the same whether I have a morning cup of coffee or not.

I think the gum as much as possible thing is a great idea so I'm going to start doing that.

I was wondering along these lines: maybe you're just bored with your food? I mean, if you're trying to keep everything a little too Peat-y? Even Peat said to eat foods that are enjoyable. Maybe you need some variety or a change of pace?

I wouldn't say I try to keep everyting Peaty by any means. I mostly eat a wide variety of foods and try to do a few Peaty things every day. This is because darily and OJ seem to cause inflamation in my nose. I have tried strict Peaty many times and it seemed to make the frequent urination worse. I definitely need starches as they seem to help to some degree.

I just can't help but think that it has to do with the added sugar because when I was paleo and low carb I was always hungry and craving sugar. Now that I eat sugar it seems like I'm never hungry.

But something surprising I noticed the other day that made me think "depression" is that I went out to lunch with a couple friends the other day that I really enjoy being with and I had a massive burger and fries. And I started think think of the painful truth that it seems like my appetite is crappy when I'm at home and at work. Work and home are stressful for me in numerous ways and I often feel hopeless but when I'm with my friends (a new group of friends actually) I feel very alive and full of hope.

So how many calories are you eating?

Rays food recommendations are not generally calorically dense so it is easy to under-eat without realizing it. That's my experience anyways.

Too much liquid lowers metabolism to a large degree and I think 4000 calories of liquid foods would leave me frozen and feeling terrible but if these 4000 calories come from mostly salty/solid foods I will be feeling much better. Just another thing to think about.

Also restricting fats or starch have left me cold and miserable.

I will say that personally a strict "Ray Peat diet" hasn't worked for me but Matt Stones approach is similar and I have seen lots of improvements so maybe check him out if you haven't already.

Yes I definitely have to watch my liquids but it seems like a very fine line because if I don't get enough liquid during the day then I am very thirsty at night. I pretty much always add salt and extra sugar to my liquids.

I mentioned above that I have tried strict Peat a few times and it seemed to make things worse. I definitely need my fats and starches.

Orion suggested going ultra low fat for a month to rid my body of PUFU and that may very well be the problem but doing that for a month seems painfully stressful.

See my reply to sweetpeat about something that happened the other day that really caused me to think depression might be the issue with this.

 

[firebreather]

So how many calories are you eating?

Rays food recommendations are not generally calorically dense so it is easy to under-eat without realizing it. That's my experience anyways.

Too much liquid lowers metabolism to a large degree and I think 4000 calories of liquid foods would leave me frozen and feeling terrible but if these 4000 calories come from mostly salty/solid foods I will be feeling much better. Just another thing to think about.

Also restricting fats or starch have left me cold and miserable.

I will say that personally a strict "Ray Peat diet" hasn't worked for me but Matt Stones approach is similar and I have seen lots of improvements so maybe check him out if you haven't already.

Dopamine, I forgot to answer your question about how many calories.

The times I've used cronometer in the past month or so it has been anywhere from 2500 to 3500.

But that's not out of hunger that's mostly because I'm forcing myself to eat. I already have cold feet and frequent urination.

If I ate to satiation I would be eating much less and the cold feet and frequent urination would be much worse.

At least that's what has happened the times I have ate to satiation in the past few months

 

[DaveFoster]

I was having such bad anxiety; I just ate a carrot salad and I'm all better.

Endotoxin is the problem. Antibiotic supplements and avoidance of starch will quell anxiety.

 

[firebreather]

I have tried the RP recommended antibiotics and I frequently eat the carrot salad but I have not experienced improvement with these things.

But things do tend to get worse for me if I cut out starches

I was having such bad anxiety; I just ate a carrot salad and I'm all better.

Endotoxin is the problem. Antibiotic supplements and avoidance of starch will quell anxiety.

 

[DaveFoster]

I have tried the RP recommended antibiotics and I frequently eat the carrot salad but I have not experienced improvement with these things.

But things do tend to get worse for me if I cut out starches

Do you drink coffee?

 

[firebreather]

Do you drink coffee?

Yes, for sure. I drink at least one strong cup a day with sugar.

I don't get the boost from it that I used to get though

 

[DaveFoster]

Yes, for sure. I drink at least one strong cup a day with sugar.

I don't get the boost from it that I used to get though

Coffee really helps my anxiety. For me, one cup isn't enough. Have you considered drinking 2 or 3 cups?

Also, sugar raises leptin I believe, which will suppress your appetite. One reason why sugar aids weight loss.

 

[firebreather]

Coffee really helps my anxiety. For me, one cup isn't enough. Have you considered drinking 2 or 3 cups?

Also, sugar raises leptin I believe, which will suppress your appetite. One reason why sugar aids weight loss.

I suppose it's worth a try. trouble is that the most stressful time of day is the afternoon and evenings at work. but if I have too much caffeine in the afternoon it tends to make my sleep even worse even though it doesn't give me much of a boost

But I will try it

 

[DaveFoster]

I suppose it's worth a try. trouble is that the most stressful time of day is the afternoon and evenings at work. but if I have too much caffeine in the afternoon it tends to make my sleep even worse even though it doesn't give me much of a boost

But I will try it

That effect goes away in five days, and completely vanishes in fifteen. Maybe try 1 and 1/2 cups the first week. See how you feel. Again, plenty of milk and sugar. Good luck.

 

[firebreather]

That effect goes away in five days, and completely vanishes in fifteen. Maybe try 1 and 1/2 cups the first week. See how you feel. Again, plenty of milk and sugar. Good luck.

Alternatives to milk?

One of my struggles is that milk seems to inflame my nasal passages enough that I can't breathe through my nose so even a cup of dairy a day and I'm up a creek

 

[DaveFoster]

Alternatives to milk?

One of my struggles is that milk seems to inflame my nasal passages enough that I can't breathe through my nose so even a cup of dairy a day and I'm up a creek

Gelatin w/ cream + sugar or MCT oil/coconut oil + sugar if you can't tolerate cream.

 

[firebreather]

Gelatin w/ cream + sugar or MCT oil/coconut oil + sugar if you can't tolerate cream.

Thanks Dave I will give this a shot

 

[DaveFoster]

Thanks Dave I will give this a shot

No problem; keep us updated.