"Air Hunger" After Cynomel

[Sheik]

After taking cynomel for about a month, I started to experience strong feelings of panic and "air hunger". I have seen three doctors who weren't any help at all. I wanted to get my cortisol tested but the doctor informed me that I would have to stay overnight for a sleep study to do that. But he kind of brushed that off as ridiculous. Maybe I should have pushed for it.

Another doctor suggested I stop taking cynomel, which I did. 5 days later I'm still extremely air hungry, and I went to another doctor this morning. He assured me that it was just anxiety, even after I told him I had never experienced this air hunger before, despite having anxiety. He told me to tell my psychiatrist, even though I informed him that I already had.

Stop the Thyroid Madness says that these are symptoms of low cortisol, which sometimes happens when people start taking thyroid medication. Given that I don't know for certain if I have low cortisol, I'm afraid to supplement it. Assuming I could get it without a prescription.

It's worth noting that the first doctor tested my thyroid (when I was taking cynomel regularly). My TSH was 2.3, T4 was 1.2, and T3 was 4.0.

 

[ilovethesea]

I had this. I used to get it when I increased NDT doses and also when I started on Cytomel. I think it's a stress reaction from increasing thyroid and not having enough nutrients. How much calories are you getting? Do you let yourself go hungry ever? Are you starch free? Do you get enough sugar and protein?

Also how much Cytomel did you take?

 

[tara]

How's your breathing - relaxed, nasal, diaphragmatic? How about while you are sleeping? If not, you can train it and in my experience it can make a difference, even if the root cause is some other stress.

 

[natedawggh]

After taking cynomel for about a month, I started to experience strong feelings of panic and "air hunger". I have seen three doctors who weren't any help at all. I wanted to get my cortisol tested but the doctor informed me that I would have to stay overnight for a sleep study to do that. But he kind of brushed that off as ridiculous. Maybe I should have pushed for it.

Another doctor suggested I stop taking cynomel, which I did. 5 days later I'm still extremely air hungry, and I went to another doctor this morning. He assured me that it was just anxiety, even after I told him I had never experienced this air hunger before, despite having anxiety. He told me to tell my psychiatrist, even though I informed him that I already had.

Stop the Thyroid Madness says that these are symptoms of low cortisol, which sometimes happens when people start taking thyroid medication. Given that I don't know for certain if I have low cortisol, I'm afraid to supplement it. Assuming I could get it without a prescription.

It's worth noting that the first doctor tested my thyroid (when I was taking cynomel regularly). My TSH was 2.3, T4 was 1.2, and T3 was 4.0.

This is actually a good thing, though it doesn't feel like it. The air hunger is because the thyroid is causing a very large output of carbon dioxide, but you're used to breathing for a low rate of metabolism and the high CO2 is actually causing too much of a displacement of oxygen. So when this happens take full breaths with your diaphragm to make sure you're getting a full intake of air as well as expelling the necessary CO2. You could even gently hyperventilate to expel more CO2 if it is really uncomfortable.

 

[tara]

My impression was that it's more common for people to hyperventilate, eg under stress conditions, than to hypoventilate. The drive to breathe is usually pretty strong. Air hunger can result from hyperventilating too.
Increased adrenaline sensitivity as a reaction to increased T3 seems plausible

 

[Spondive]

Co2 is the major stimulus for respiratory rate

 

[tara]

Co2 is the major stimulus for respiratory rate

Yes, normally. But my understanding is that stress can cause people to hyperventilate and get their CO2 level down lower than it's usual set point, and once it gets bad enough, oxygen hunger can drive further hyperventilation.

 

[Blossom]

Co2 is the major stimulus for respiratory rate

Yes, normally. But my understanding is that stress can cause people to hyperventilate and get their CO2 level down lower than it's usual set point, and once it gets bad enough, oxygen hunger can drive further hyperventilation.

It can certainly be a viscous cycle. Hyperventilating will set off a 'fight or flight' reaction in the body leading to further panic and hyperventilating. Slowing down the breathing can interrupt the process. In through the nose as if smelling flowers and out through the mouth as if blowing out candles is an old trick that can bring quick results.
Covering your nutrition bases to support your metabolism is a must IMO. :)

 

[Jsaute21]

This is actually a good thing, though it doesn't feel like it. The air hunger is because the thyroid is causing a very large output of carbon dioxide, but you're used to breathing for a low rate of metabolism and the high CO2 is actually causing too much of a displacement of oxygen. So when this happens take full breaths with your diaphragm to make sure you're getting a full intake of air as well as expelling the necessary CO2. You could even gently hyperventilate to expel more CO2 if it is really uncomfortable.

This is an interesting/smart take on this phenomenon. I hardly experience anxiety but often feel relatively low C02 when i work out. I perform well on an intensive exercise such as a sprint, box jump, etc but i can tell that my C02 is not ideal and liver glycogen is still not perfect. I am wondering if any seasoned metabolism guru's have experienced this @haidut @tca300 @jitsmonkey @Stryker and if they might have any advice for how to best improve liver glycogen storage & c02 levels. What's interesting is a couple of years ago i was working with a performance training specialist, and one of the exercises he had athletes perform was to blow up a balloon. Now this is only possible if one breathes with their diaphragm. I did not, and still breathe shallowly. Do you think improving breathing is something that comes much more naturally as metabolism is increased, or needs to be consciously worked on to improve?

 

[jitsmonkey]

This is an interesting/smart take on this phenomenon. I hardly experience anxiety but often feel relatively low C02 when i work out. I perform well on an intensive exercise such as a sprint, box jump, etc but i can tell that my C02 is not ideal and liver glycogen is still not perfect. I am wondering if any seasoned metabolism guru's have experienced this @haidut @tca300 @jitsmonkey @Stryker and if they might have any advice for how to best improve liver glycogen storage & c02 levels. What's interesting is a couple of years ago i was working with a performance training specialist, and one of the exercises he had athletes perform was to blow up a balloon. Now this is only possible if one breathes with their diaphragm. I did not, and still breathe shallowly. Do you think improving breathing is something that comes much more naturally as metabolism is increased, or needs to be consciously worked on to improve?

Yes.
these and variations of them have been super helpful for me re: what you're describing

 

[InChristAlone]

The reason for this is that slow oxidizers have a low respiratory drive thus do not need to breathe fast. Then you take thyroid, caffeine, sugar and your CO2 levels go up and you start breathing faster but your bicarbonate levels do not respond quick enough to this new state and you panic. At least that is what @gbolduev said. He said he learned it from anesthesiology textbooks plus hair tissue mineral analysis. Sure enough I had this symptom after starting to pay attention to my breath and was panicking. I do not have it much anymore because I trained my brain to ignore the feeling and let my autonomic nervous system regulate respiration. Of course trying to nose breathe as well. And also be sure you aren't unconsciously holding breath either.

 

[Jsaute21]

The reason for this is that slow oxidizers have a low respiratory drive thus do not need to breathe fast. Then you take thyroid, caffeine, sugar and your CO2 levels go up and you start breathing faster but your bicarbonate levels do not respond quick enough to this new state and you panic. At least that is what @gbolduev said. He said he learned it from anesthesiology textbooks plus hair tissue mineral analysis. Sure enough I had this symptom after starting to pay attention to my breath and was panicking. I do not have it much anymore because I trained my brain to ignore the feeling and let my autonomic nervous system regulate respiration. Of course trying to nose breathe as well. And also be sure you aren't unconsciously holding breath either.

What is the definition of a slow oxidizer? Is it possible to be a very naturally lean person that is a slow oxidizer?

 

[jitsmonkey]

What is the definition of a slow oxidizer? Is it possible to be a very naturally lean person that is a slow oxidizer?

its speculative narrative.
ultimately its irrelevant.
a very small amount of breathing work you'll forget you even asked the question.

 

[InChristAlone]

It isn't irrelevent. If you have high hair calcium and low sodium and potassium, this will make Peating hard for you. I spent yrs of my life trying to make this work. Started looking outside the box and don't feel like I'm in a hell hole anymore. This stuff is all individual. If thyroid gives you air hunger it is likely you need to do more than breath work. I tried breath work for ages. In fact I had a horrible horrible panic attack after trying out reduced breathing. Controlling our breath is trying to override our systems. They call it the autonomic nervous system for a reason.. it does so automatically. You do not have to think about how you are breathing. I would say the only thing I consciously am aware of is if I'm mouth breathing and if I'm sucking my gut in which leads to shorter breaths. Observing the breath is okay though.

 

[jitsmonkey]

"This stuff is all individual."
which is why speculative narrative is in fact irrelevant.
That doesn't discount your experience nor does it mean your experience will be like the person's who asked the question.
After all "This stuff is all individual."

 

[Jsaute21]

The reason for this is that slow oxidizers have a low respiratory drive thus do not need to breathe fast. Then you take thyroid, caffeine, sugar and your CO2 levels go up and you start breathing faster but your bicarbonate levels do not respond quick enough to this new state and you panic. At least that is what @gbolduev said. He said he learned it from anesthesiology textbooks plus hair tissue mineral analysis. Sure enough I had this symptom after starting to pay attention to my breath and was panicking. I do not have it much anymore because I trained my brain to ignore the feeling and let my autonomic nervous system regulate respiration. Of course trying to nose breathe as well. And also be sure you aren't unconsciously holding breath either.

The issue with this oxidization narrative is it puts all people into a category. I just was reading up on Watson's site about what slow oxidizers body shape is typically like. "Pear shaped" almost always apparently. Not me. In fact, reading his descriptions makes it almost impossible for me to determine if i am a fast oxidizer or a slow oxidizer. Either should avoid sugar at all costs apparently. I don't buy that. Now for me, something i do worry about is below. I have ordered a cortisol test from life extension, and i am curious to see these results. However, according to Peat, and it makes a great deal of sense, improving thyroid function will improve adrenal function. I actually had a hair mineral test done 2 years ago or so, prior to when i found Peat and the results can also be found below. (The results were emailed to me.) I don't want to challenge your feelings on this subject. You know best how you feel, but to me, this oxidization theory doesn't hold a candle to Ray's recommendations and research. It talks about the right things, but its advice for rectifying health are complete nonsense. For instance, if you are a slow oxidizer and have low thyroid function, eat broccoli and PUFA fed chickens. This isn't favorable for metabolic health, period.

• You are in a moderate fast oxidation state. Basically your body is operating at a faster pace than it can handle and it is now showing signs that you are unable to keep up with your current pace as evidenced by a higher than normal adrenal and lower than normal thyroid ratios. Your body is over exerting your adrenals by 25-50% (which i found to be a huge range btw) and your thyroid is operating at a 10-25% energy loss. Also noted below you are toxic in several metals which can impact your overall state of health.
• Your lifestyle ratio which is a reflectio nof your external stress/life balance is within a normal range indicating that your work, relationships, etc are not playing an impact on your body's stress level.
• Your vitality ratio is elevated as is your sodium level which is indicative of a higher level of internal stress and reflects the level of stress being imposed on your body based on a fast oxidation rate.
• Magnesium is normal, calcium is slightly low and your potassium is slightly high, none of which are a concern at this time. The joint pain and joint stiffness may be not to biounavailable calcium that the body is unable to release and forms int oa toxic type of calcium usually storing itself in the bones and joints.
• Phosphorus is at a normal level indicating good digestion of food.
• Zinc and copper are within normal range, though your zinc/copper ratio is moderately high and can be attributed to copper toxicity (body being unable to use the copper in your tissues).
• Selenium is at an acceptable level however your chromium is slightly high. Iron is just also slightly elevated.
• Your chart also indicates a level of mercury, cadmium, arsenic and aluminum toxicity and poor elimination of lead and copper. You appear to be eliminating maganese at a satisfactory level at this time

 

[Wagner83]

Extreme Exercising Adenturer "Axe" has 3 hair tests

 

[InChristAlone]

The issue with this oxidization narrative is it puts all people into a category. I just was reading up on Watson's site about what slow oxidizers body shape is typically like. "Pear shaped" almost always apparently. Not me. In fact, reading his descriptions makes it almost impossible for me to determine if i am a fast oxidizer or a slow oxidizer. Either should avoid sugar at all costs apparently. I don't buy that. Now for me, something i do worry about is below. I have ordered a cortisol test from life extension, and i am curious to see these results. However, according to Peat, and it makes a great deal of sense, improving thyroid function will improve adrenal function. I actually had a hair mineral test done 2 years ago or so, prior to when i found Peat and the results can also be found below. (The results were emailed to me.) I don't want to challenge your feelings on this subject. You know best how you feel, but to me, this oxidization theory doesn't hold a candle to Ray's recommendations and research. It talks about the right things, but its advice for rectifying health are complete nonsense. For instance, if you are a slow oxidizer and have low thyroid function, eat broccoli and PUFA fed chickens. This isn't favorable for metabolic health, period.
View attachment 7640

• You are in a moderate fast oxidation state. Basically your body is operating at a faster pace than it can handle and it is now showing signs that you are unable to keep up with your current pace as evidenced by a higher than normal adrenal and lower than normal thyroid ratios. Your body is over exerting your adrenals by 25-50% (which i found to be a huge range btw) and your thyroid is operating at a 10-25% energy loss. Also noted below you are toxic in several metals which can impact your overall state of health.
• Your lifestyle ratio which is a reflectio nof your external stress/life balance is within a normal range indicating that your work, relationships, etc are not playing an impact on your body's stress level.
• Your vitality ratio is elevated as is your sodium level which is indicative of a higher level of internal stress and reflects the level of stress being imposed on your body based on a fast oxidation rate.
• Magnesium is normal, calcium is slightly low and your potassium is slightly high, none of which are a concern at this time. The joint pain and joint stiffness may be not to biounavailable calcium that the body is unable to release and forms int oa toxic type of calcium usually storing itself in the bones and joints.
• Phosphorus is at a normal level indicating good digestion of food.
• Zinc and copper are within normal range, though your zinc/copper ratio is moderately high and can be attributed to copper toxicity (body being unable to use the copper in your tissues).
• Selenium is at an acceptable level however your chromium is slightly high. Iron is just also slightly elevated.
• Your chart also indicates a level of mercury, cadmium, arsenic and aluminum toxicity and poor elimination of lead and copper. You appear to be eliminating maganese at a satisfactory level at this time

I'd say don't read about that stuff on the web at all. It is just good to know where you are at not whether or not you should be eating carbs. High hair calcium needs to be dealt with regardless. Ascorbic acid is one way

 

[Fexxx]

I have exact the same Issue with T3 - breahtlessness. It was so bad, that I had to stop my low intense 30min Workout. That was unbearable for me. How to overcome this? I‘m already a 99% Nose-Breather.

 

[redsun]

I have exact the same Issue with T3 - breahtlessness. It was so bad, that I had to stop my low intense 30min Workout. That was unbearable for me. How to overcome this? I‘m already a 99% Nose-Breather.

Anemia? T3 raises metabolism, raising the requirements for oxygen. So possibly issue with sufficient oxygen delivery that you can't handle when you take T3.

Many other causes behind it:

https://www.webmd.com/lung/shortness-breath-dyspnea#2