Low Toxin Supplements Niacin Increases NAD+ Significantly in Human Trial

[gunther]

Niacin is actually an amino acid, not a b vitamin. The thing you need to be mindful of is making sure you are buffering any doses over 100mg.

Would you have any words for those of us that get such a harsh reaction from Niacin? I was taking the niacinimide form and got severe night terrors.

The terrors went away when I discontinued Niacinimide and began taking SAMe. I'm assuming that I am an "undermethylator." If you don't buy into the methylation thing, I can at least say that I respond well to an undermethylation protocol.

From what I understand, Niacin will mop up methyl groups in the blood stream. So, if I'm already low on methyl groups, niacin will make matters much worse. I'm just wondering if I still need niacin and if I should try some after taking SAMe.

 

[charlie]

Would you have any words for those of us that get such a harsh reaction from Niacin? I was taking the niacinimide form and got severe night terrors.

You are getting harsh reactions to niacin as nicotinic acid?

 

[gunther]

You are getting harsh reactions to niacin as nicotinic acid?

That I don't know. I haven't tried it as far I can remember. Does nicontinic acid bind to methyl groups?

I did a little googling and it looks like there might be a diff of methyl group binding between forms of niacin. Not yet sure, I'll look into it tonight.

 

[Osukhan]

Would you have any words for those of us that get such a harsh reaction from Niacin? I was taking the niacinimide form and got severe night terrors.

The terrors went away when I discontinued Niacinimide and began taking SAMe. I'm assuming that I am an "undermethylator." If you don't buy into the methylation thing, I can at least say that I respond well to an undermethylation protocol.

From what I understand, Niacin will mop up methyl groups in the blood stream. So, if I'm already low on methyl groups, niacin will make matters much worse. I'm just wondering if I still need niacin and if I should try some after taking SAMe.

ive been trying to read up on this as well, i have been taking TMG to help, but also im thinking i maybe low on Folate. Methyl-folate here maybe a good option. Seems the low vit A diet has a lot of beans which would also help in this situation. I will be adding more beans to my diet to see.
there was some posts on reddit on others getting night terrors using niacinamide

 

[gunther]

ive been trying to read up on this as well, i have been taking TMG to help, but also im thinking i maybe low on Folate. Methyl-folate here maybe a good option. Seems the low vit A diet has a lot of beans which would also help in this situation. I will be adding more beans to my diet to see.
there was some posts on reddit on others getting night terrors using niacinamide

Yeah, I've seen other accounts as well. The night terrors were horrible. Just as I started to nod off to sleep I would jerk awake in a state of extreme panic/terror. I would cycle like this almost all night.

 

[Highserotonin90]

@gunther The same thing happened to me when cholinergic things increase / acetylcholine on the rise. P5P with magnesium bisglycinate had attenuated. Remember that very often acetylcholine travels hand in hand with serotonin...also you may have sensitive MAO enzymes (copper deficiency).

 

[pubh12]

@gunther The same thing happened to me when cholinergic things increase / acetylcholine on the rise. P5P with magnesium bisglycinate had attenuated. Remember that very often acetylcholine travels hand in hand with serotonin...also you may have sensitive MAO enzymes (copper deficiency).

Does high blood levels of serotonin usually mean you have high acetylcholine ?

 

[Highserotonin90]

@pubh12 It's possible but I can't say anything about it as far as I'm concerned yes.

High Acetylcholine = learned helplessness, depression - What are good ways to lower acetylcholine or increase acetylcholinesterase activity?

Ray peat has spoken about the negatives of acetylcholine relating to stress and learning Acetylcholine is an excitotoxic neurotransmitter antagonism of either nicotinic or muscarinic ACh receptors can have antidepressant effects in humans and decrease stress-relevant behaviors in rodents...

raypeatforum.com

 

[khan]

Niacin is actually an amino acid, not a b vitamin. The thing you need to be mindful of is making sure you are buffering any doses over 100mg.

Why to buffer?

 

[Validus]

Yeah, I've seen other accounts as well. The night terrors were horrible. Just as I started to nod off to sleep I would jerk awake in a state of extreme panic/terror. I would cycle like this almost all night.

How long did it last for?

It's ironic, because I've recently been dealing with this, but stopped taking niacin a few days ago, although I was taking upwards of 6 grams per day.

 

[charlie]

It's ironic, because I've recently been dealing with this, but stopped taking niacin a few days ago, although I was taking upwards of 6 grams per day.

Nicotinic Acid or Niacinamide?

 

[Validus]

Nicotinic Acid or Niacinamide?

Niacin, so nicotinic acid.

Too bad too because it was calming and did seem to help heal some nagging injuries, but trading for sleep is no Bueno.

 

[gunther]

@gunther The same thing happened to me when cholinergic things increase / acetylcholine on the rise. P5P with magnesium bisglycinate had attenuated. Remember that very often acetylcholine travels hand in hand with serotonin...also you may have sensitive MAO enzymes (copper deficiency).

Although I did suspect high ACh for a while, I turned my attention to glutamate for a few reasons.
1. According to wiki over 90% of receptors in the brain are glutamate receptors. This is the elephant in the room.
2. Antihistamines calmed my anxiety. Histamine in the brain causes glutamate activity. Glutamate storm = anxiety.
3. There is a see saw situation between histamine and CH3 (methyl groups). SAMe calmed my anxiety.
4. Niacinimide caused night terrors.

@charlie
I was reading a bit and my initial digging reveals that Niacinimide is much more active in the blood stream clearing CH3 than Nicatinic Acid .

 

[gunther]

How long did it last for?

It's ironic, because I've recently been dealing with this, but stopped taking niacin a few days ago, although I was taking upwards of 6 grams per day.

If you mean how long did symptoms continue after I quit taking niacinimide, I don't exactly recall, but from what I remember I think it was a day or two. Pretty quickly. Keep in mind, however, that I started taking SAMe at the same time I quit niacinimide.

 

[charlie]

Niacin, so nicotinic acid.

Too bad too because it was calming and did seem to help heal some nagging injuries, but trading for sleep is no Bueno.

Most likely it is liberating toxins and moving them out especially heavy metals so it will effect sleep. I advise my family to keep the dose low where you are getting results and just under the discomfort level. Also making sure to buffer any doses over 100mg.

 

[Highserotonin90]

@gunther Try NAC for glutamate

 

[gunther]

@gunther Try NAC for glutamate

Already on it! Thanks!

 

[Validus]

Most likely it is liberating toxins and moving them out especially heavy metals so it will effect sleep. I advise my family to keep the dose low where you are getting results and just under the discomfort level. Also making sure to buffer any doses over 100mg.

How does someone "buffer" the niacin?

 

[charlie]

How does someone "buffer" the niacin?

I will be posting about that soon.

 

[Peatress]

I have read Abram Hoffer's book Niacin: The Real story some time ago. I would like to build up to 3x1000mg per day of niacin (nicotinic acid), as he suggests in his book. However, recently I watched a video by Chris Masterjohn (I don't really follow him) in which he claims that supplementing so much niacin can cause diabetes, espcially if eaten within hours of carbohydrate consumption. He doesn't mention which niacin form he is talking about though. Is this really a concern? I am surprised that Abram Hoffer did not talk about this possibility in his book. Anybody know?

Niacin therapy and the risk of new-onset diabetes: a meta-analysis of randomised controlled trials | Heart

Niacin - LiverTox - NCBI Bookshelf

Nicotinic acid-induced fulminant hepatic failure - PubMed

A 46-year-old man began taking nicotinic acid, 3 g daily, for hypercholesterolemia. A month later, he developed clinical and biochemical evidence of modest hepatocellular injury, and therapy was stopped. It was restarted 6 weeks later, and 10 weeks after that, the patient presented with...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

“Well, niacin sometimes refers to nicotinic acid or even its slow release form. Nicotinic acid happens to increase your histamine, serotonin, and prostaglandins, all of which are inflammatory. So I don't think it's good for anyone to take nicotinic acid other than as it occurs in food. Niacinamide is a form of that same vitamin that is active in cells and doesn't release those inflammatory problem materials.” Ray Peat