Next attempt to cure PFS.

[fever257]

Hello,

I'm inquiring about a hormonal issue engendered by an 8-9 month long course of finasteride. Around 2 years after taking finasteride, I took human chloronic gonadotropin(earlier this year) which increased my male hormones, but also massively spiked my estrogen, to the point where I have sky-high estradiol, basically aromatize everything, and suffer from high-estrogen symptoms like weight gain, puffiness, stretch marks, gyno, sexual issues, ED, etc. - the whole lot.

I also suffered from use of proton pump inhibitor, and all three (finasteride, ppi use, and hcg) have contributed to issues with my steroid synthesis. I now take thyroid, pregnenalone, progesterone, and DHEA just to function normally. Without them, and without semen retention, I would be a complete mess. I want to eventually try to get off taking the youth-associated hormones - PROG, PREG, DHEA. Would obviously be great if my body could function properly/optimally without having to take anything.

I need to teach my body how to produce hormones properly and utilize the optimal hormone pathways. Also think I need to increase 5ar enzyme. That's why I took HCG - to do these things, and it helped in some ways, but exacerbated in others. I have no idea how to rectify this. Do y'all have any ideas?

 

[scoobydoo]

Any blood measurements?

 

[Charger]

You messaged me 4 months ago about PFS and I gave you a list of things to get checked.

Have you got blood work?

 

[fever257]

You messaged me 4 months ago about PFS and I gave you a list of things to get checked.

Have you got blood work?

Yes, I did, and it told me what I already knew to be true - that my body didn't respond super positively to HCG. I'm aromatizing a lot and I have high estradiol. I've optimized a lot about my environment, diet, and toxin loads.

Im now trying to figure out how teach my body to produce hormones regularly again.

 

[Charger]

Yes, I did, and it told me what I already knew to be true - that my body didn't respond super positively to HCG. I'm aromatizing a lot and I have high estradiol. I've optimized a lot about my environment, diet, and toxin loads.

Im now trying to figure out how teach my body to produce hormones regularly again.

Total Testosterone
Free Testosterone
DHT
Prolactin
Estradiol (Sensitive)
Cortisol
SHBG
Albumin
LH & FSH
Thyroid panel including TSH

Are what I wanna see, most of this stuff is useless. A total testosterone number without anything accompanying it (free test, shbg, dht, etc.) doesn't tell us much of anything.

 

[Sexypizza]

Hey,

I also suffer from PFS, or rather PDS because I used Dutasteride for 2 years. I've had PDS/PFS for about 5 years now.


This year I started to make a lot of progress towards recovering where as the previous years there wasn't much to show. I'll tell you about some of the things that helped me a lot.

- First thing I tried, following Ray's email suggestions to me was thyroid. It didn't help much initially and it didn't increase my pulse and temp much after using it, The only thing it helped me with was improve my memory issues.

- It took several years before thyroid started actually working for me, Ray and Danny suggested that I might have intenstinal issues, Ray recommended the carrot salad for me, and Danny recommended penicilin, Erythromicin, tetracycline. I remember using Erythromicin for a week or so along with daily carrot salads and then suddenly having a panic attack and then stopping. After that random panic attack, somehow thyroid just started working after years of trying and not getting much benefit from it. After this, taking thyroid was able to get my temperature up from 35.9 most morning to 36.5 most mornings, my pulse improved too. Unfortunately thyroid didn't do much for my erectile dysfunction and libido so I had to keep searching for other stuff to help with that.

- Calcium and Vitamin D helped a lot with keeping my mood stable. Before that I would often have periods of being sad and melancholy a lot of the times.


- Now I'm focusing on getting my erections, libido, and penile sensation to come back. Which has been basically ***t for years. This year I made a lot of progress in that area. I figured out that its mostly an androgenic issue. Because I remember before knowing about Ray, one of the first things I tried to get my libido back was using testerone. I used a brand called sustanon which has different esters in one bottle. I used a big dose not knowing any better (a doctor prescribed it to me, who also didn't know any better) and it worked temporarily, it basically cured all my sexual problems for about 2 days. I think that's when the androgens were high and estrogen didn't have a chance to increase yet. On day 3 I crashed and was 10 times worse though and it took two weeks to get back to baseline again. I didn't use testosterone since then. But this year I started using progesterone in low doses and that worked the same as testosterone but less extreme. It gave me stronger erections and sensations and orgasms. It seems that if I use progesterone too much daily it loses its potency though so I have to give it a break every now and then for it too keep working. So I moved on to DHEA and pregnanolone. DHEA seems to be the best thing I've tried so far. Right now I'm just using 5mg a day of DHEA topically and it seems to do a lot for me. Initially it boosted my libido a lot and gave me a lot of my sensations back and orgasms felt almost normal. After a while the effects waned a little bit but mostly it has stayed the same now for a few months. I'm planning to increase the dose when I get a new batch of DHEA, and if that's not enough I might add small doses of testosterone again and maybe even DHT. I have a good feeling that this will work for me based on my previous experiences.

I noticed that a lot of the things that helped me recover work synergistically with each other. For example the DHEA doesn't work as good without a lot of calcium. If my gut is having a lot of issues or if I don't eat right, the DHEA will stop working as well and I will start losing my erections but If I eat well it will come back. I remember a few days ago I ran out of Lactose free milk and just drank a cup of regular milk and the stress it put on my gut made me lose my erections for about a day or two, so I really pay attention now to keeping my gut free from irritation as much as possible. Every now and then I try to take small doses of penicillin or tetracycline. Tetracycline helped me a lot with my gut issues. Recently I've tried eating two to four eggs daily and that seems to help (Although it might be coincidental not sure yet).



Don't give up man, I thought I was hopeless but if I can get better, you certainly can too.

 

[golder]

Hey,

I also suffer from PFS, or rather PDS because I used Dutasteride for 2 years. I've had PDS/PFS for about 5 years now.


This year I started to make a lot of progress towards recovering where as the previous years there wasn't much to show. I'll tell you about some of the things that helped me a lot.

- First thing I tried, following Ray's email suggestions to me was thyroid. It didn't help much initially and it didn't increase my pulse and temp much after using it, The only thing it helped me with was improve my memory issues.

- It took several years before thyroid started actually working for me, Ray and Danny suggested that I might have intenstinal issues, Ray recommended the carrot salad for me, and Danny recommended penicilin, Erythromicin, tetracycline. I remember using Erythromicin for a week or so along with daily carrot salads and then suddenly having a panic attack and then stopping. After that random panic attack, somehow thyroid just started working after years of trying and not getting much benefit from it. After this, taking thyroid was able to get my temperature up from 35.9 most morning to 36.5 most mornings, my pulse improved too. Unfortunately thyroid didn't do much for my erectile dysfunction and libido so I had to keep searching for other stuff to help with that.

- Calcium and Vitamin D helped a lot with keeping my mood stable. Before that I would often have periods of being sad and melancholy a lot of the times.


- Now I'm focusing on getting my erections, libido, and penile sensation to come back. Which has been basically ***t for years. This year I made a lot of progress in that area. I figured out that its mostly an androgenic issue. Because I remember before knowing about Ray, one of the first things I tried to get my libido back was using testerone. I used a brand called sustanon which has different esters in one bottle. I used a big dose not knowing any better (a doctor prescribed it to me, who also didn't know any better) and it worked temporarily, it basically cured all my sexual problems for about 2 days. I think that's when the androgens were high and estrogen didn't have a chance to increase yet. On day 3 I crashed and was 10 times worse though and it took two weeks to get back to baseline again. I didn't use testosterone since then. But this year I started using progesterone in low doses and that worked the same as testosterone but less extreme. It gave me stronger erections and sensations and orgasms. It seems that if I use progesterone too much daily it loses its potency though so I have to give it a break every now and then for it too keep working. So I moved on to DHEA and pregnanolone. DHEA seems to be the best thing I've tried so far. Right now I'm just using 5mg a day of DHEA topically and it seems to do a lot for me. Initially it boosted my libido a lot and gave me a lot of my sensations back and orgasms felt almost normal. After a while the effects waned a little bit but mostly it has stayed the same now for a few months. I'm planning to increase the dose when I get a new batch of DHEA, and if that's not enough I might add small doses of testosterone again and maybe even DHT. I have a good feeling that this will work for me based on my previous experiences.

I noticed that a lot of the things that helped me recover work synergistically with each other. For example the DHEA doesn't work as good without a lot of calcium. If my gut is having a lot of issues or if I don't eat right, the DHEA will stop working as well and I will start losing my erections but If I eat well it will come back. I remember a few days ago I ran out of Lactose free milk and just drank a cup of regular milk and the stress it put on my gut made me lose my erections for about a day or two, so I really pay attention now to keeping my gut free from irritation as much as possible. Every now and then I try to take small doses of penicillin or tetracycline. Tetracycline helped me a lot with my gut issues. Recently I've tried eating two to four eggs daily and that seems to help (Although it might be coincidental not sure yet).



Don't give up man, I thought I was hopeless but if I can get better, you certainly can too.

You’ve given me real hope to not give up with thyroid and keep persevering. What dosage and frequency ended up working for you to get the morning temperatures up? Seems like getting the gut clean is imperative before thyroid will work, so I’m going to work on that first, just curious to hear what dose/brand/frequency etc ended up working for you! Thanks :)

 

[SamuraiJack]

The exact same thing is what I noticed before. When I'd eat gluten it would seriously irritate my gut. Libido, sex drive gone. I'd have low dopamine symptoms/fatigue and would need 2-3 days to recover. What honestly helped me was a teaspoon of black seed oil right afterwards. It soothes the irritation and quenches the flood of inflammation.
I'd be healed within a few hours. I keep the BSO for this purpose only.
What's interesting is, when I drink milk AFTER gluten consumption, it will give me gut issues/bloating.
When I've healed from the gluten completely, not touched any for a couple weeks or so, I can handle milk again.

 

[SamuraiJack]

Hey,

I also suffer from PFS, or rather PDS because I used Dutasteride for 2 years. I've had PDS/PFS for about 5 years now.


This year I started to make a lot of progress towards recovering where as the previous years there wasn't much to show. I'll tell you about some of the things that helped me a lot.

- First thing I tried, following Ray's email suggestions to me was thyroid. It didn't help much initially and it didn't increase my pulse and temp much after using it, The only thing it helped me with was improve my memory issues.

- It took several years before thyroid started actually working for me, Ray and Danny suggested that I might have intenstinal issues, Ray recommended the carrot salad for me, and Danny recommended penicilin, Erythromicin, tetracycline. I remember using Erythromicin for a week or so along with daily carrot salads and then suddenly having a panic attack and then stopping. After that random panic attack, somehow thyroid just started working after years of trying and not getting much benefit from it. After this, taking thyroid was able to get my temperature up from 35.9 most morning to 36.5 most mornings, my pulse improved too. Unfortunately thyroid didn't do much for my erectile dysfunction and libido so I had to keep searching for other stuff to help with that.

- Calcium and Vitamin D helped a lot with keeping my mood stable. Before that I would often have periods of being sad and melancholy a lot of the times.


- Now I'm focusing on getting my erections, libido, and penile sensation to come back. Which has been basically ***t for years. This year I made a lot of progress in that area. I figured out that its mostly an androgenic issue. Because I remember before knowing about Ray, one of the first things I tried to get my libido back was using testerone. I used a brand called sustanon which has different esters in one bottle. I used a big dose not knowing any better (a doctor prescribed it to me, who also didn't know any better) and it worked temporarily, it basically cured all my sexual problems for about 2 days. I think that's when the androgens were high and estrogen didn't have a chance to increase yet. On day 3 I crashed and was 10 times worse though and it took two weeks to get back to baseline again. I didn't use testosterone since then. But this year I started using progesterone in low doses and that worked the same as testosterone but less extreme. It gave me stronger erections and sensations and orgasms. It seems that if I use progesterone too much daily it loses its potency though so I have to give it a break every now and then for it too keep working. So I moved on to DHEA and pregnanolone. DHEA seems to be the best thing I've tried so far. Right now I'm just using 5mg a day of DHEA topically and it seems to do a lot for me. Initially it boosted my libido a lot and gave me a lot of my sensations back and orgasms felt almost normal. After a while the effects waned a little bit but mostly it has stayed the same now for a few months. I'm planning to increase the dose when I get a new batch of DHEA, and if that's not enough I might add small doses of testosterone again and maybe even DHT. I have a good feeling that this will work for me based on my previous experiences.

I noticed that a lot of the things that helped me recover work synergistically with each other. For example the DHEA doesn't work as good without a lot of calcium. If my gut is having a lot of issues or if I don't eat right, the DHEA will stop working as well and I will start losing my erections but If I eat well it will come back. I remember a few days ago I ran out of Lactose free milk and just drank a cup of regular milk and the stress it put on my gut made me lose my erections for about a day or two, so I really pay attention now to keeping my gut free from irritation as much as possible. Every now and then I try to take small doses of penicillin or tetracycline. Tetracycline helped me a lot with my gut issues. Recently I've tried eating two to four eggs daily and that seems to help (Although it might be coincidental not sure yet).



Don't give up man, I thought I was hopeless but if I can get better, you certainly can too.

I find it funny as I've been on quite a high dose of testosterone + dht for around 6 months. I've barely had a libido during this time. And high estrogen wasn't the reason in my case - I've used dht + arimidex to control this (no gyno or excess fat gain).
When I started adding in a few mg of progesterone these past few weeks, holy sht. Sex drive absolutely exploded, laying in bed thinking about women, at work etc. Must have been a progesterone deficiency in my case.

 

[MS11]

I find it funny as I've been on quite a high dose of testosterone + dht for around 6 months. I've barely had a libido during this time. And high estrogen wasn't the reason in my case - I've used dht + arimidex to control this (no gyno or excess fat gain).
When I started adding in a few mg of progesterone these past few weeks, holy sht. Sex drive absolutely exploded, laying in bed thinking about women, at work etc. Must have been a progesterone deficiency in my case.

Hey man,

Does the progesterone still work for you? I’ve noticed that herbs that raise progesterone make me feel better and also help my libido. I’ve tried maca and cistanche which both seem to raise progesterone. Unfortunately this effect lasts for a very short time of about 3 or 4 hours and then PFS symptoms start coming back.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

Hello,

I'm inquiring about a hormonal issue engendered by an 8-9 month long course of finasteride. Around 2 years after taking finasteride, I took human chloronic gonadotropin(earlier this year) which increased my male hormones, but also massively spiked my estrogen, to the point where I have sky-high estradiol, basically aromatize everything, and suffer from high-estrogen symptoms like weight gain, puffiness, stretch marks, gyno, sexual issues, ED, etc. - the whole lot.

I also suffered from use of proton pump inhibitor, and all three (finasteride, ppi use, and hcg) have contributed to issues with my steroid synthesis. I now take thyroid, pregnenalone, progesterone, and DHEA just to function normally. Without them, and without semen retention, I would be a complete mess. I want to eventually try to get off taking the youth-associated hormones - PROG, PREG, DHEA. Would obviously be great if my body could function properly/optimally without having to take anything.

I need to teach my body how to produce hormones properly and utilize the optimal hormone pathways. Also think I need to increase 5ar enzyme. That's why I took HCG - to do these things, and it helped in some ways, but exacerbated in others. I have no idea how to rectify this. Do y'all have any ideas?

I'm in the same sauce, aromatising everything after PFS. But not initially, only after a year or two trying various 'treatments' like Tribulus and so forth, did I end up in this state.

It's pretty bad - I'm actually on 0.5 mg letrozole now, and while that stuff is pretty bad, having ultra high E is worse. Actually at this dose I seem to be in a sweet spot regarding estrogen, but I realise I don't wanna take it long term.

Most of the stuff recommended on this forum doesn't do ***t. Especially the so-called "T-boosting" compounds - you better stay away from those, because all that will do is give you even more estrogen. I wonder if this is some kind of compensation mechanism for low 5-AR.

I tried Proviron, 11-keto DHT, etc etc. Most of the stuff leaves me in the same state once I quit.

I did regain almost all my sexual function and most of my mental function from all the things I tried, but this estrogen activity is still the bane of my existence. I don't think HCG made mine any worse though, I got this way before I ever tried it.

 

[Sexypizza]

I'm in the same sauce, aromatising everything after PFS. But not initially, only after a year or two trying various 'treatments' like Tribulus and so forth, did I end up in this state.

It's pretty bad - I'm actually on 0.5 mg letrozole now, and while that stuff is pretty bad, having ultra high E is worse. Actually at this dose I seem to be in a sweet spot regarding estrogen, but I realise I don't wanna take it long term.

Most of the stuff recommended on this forum doesn't do ***t. Especially the so-called "T-boosting" compounds - you better stay away from those, because all that will do is give you even more estrogen. I wonder if this is some kind of compensation mechanism for low 5-AR.

I tried Proviron, 11-keto DHT, etc etc. Most of the stuff leaves me in the same state once I quit.

I did regain almost all my sexual function and most of my mental function from all the things I tried, but this estrogen activity is still the bane of my existence. I don't think HCG made mine any worse though, I got this way before I ever tried it.

check your thyroid.

if your thyroid is low, testosterone will convert mostly to estrogen.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

check your thyroid.

if your thyroid is low, testosterone will convert mostly to estrogen.

My thyroid is not ideal (TSH is 2-3), but it was actually far worse (6-8) before I had these problems. Didn't seem to help much when I took it either.

 

[Mister]

@fever257 You tried proviron?

 

[milkboi]

I'm actually on 0.5 mg letrozole now,

Daily?

 

[MyUsernameHere]

Daily?

Yes it was daily and now trying exemestane instead (also 25 mg daily full dose) and estrogen issues are still not fully under control. I'm so fvcked up.

 

[Rasaari]

Yes it was daily and now trying exemestane instead (also 25 mg daily full dose) and estrogen issues are still not fully under control. I'm so fvcked up.

The zoles have some estrogenic activity on their own, and they are not suicide inhibitors so not good. Exemestane is pretty safe, georgi thinks that a dose of 6mg/day gets most of the aromatase inhibition, so more is not better. Also the AIs are not 100% specific and can also impact the progesterone pathways, so supplementing with preg or prog would be useful. When I used exemestane 100mg of preg took away all the side-effects. Ray thinks that AIs are not so good idea and rather using progesterone and pregnenolone along with many dietary methods, like enough A/D, are necessary to shift from the estrogenic stress state. Having good liver function is necessary to remove estrogen, and intestinal stress can be a major contributor to estrogen excess.

Pregnenolone Is As Potent As Progesterone As An (irreversible) Aromatase Inhibitor

Progesterone does not need an introduction here and most people are likely aware of its antiestrogenic effects. A few years ago, I posted a thread with an old French study showing that a 500mg daily dose pregnenolone completely blocked estrogen's effects - an effect identical to what...

raypeatforum.com

 

[MyUsernameHere]

The zoles have some estrogenic activity on their own, and they are not suicide inhibitors so not good. Exemestane is pretty safe, georgi thinks that a dose of 6mg/day gets most of the aromatase inhibition, so more is not better. Also the AIs are not 100% specific and can also impact the progesterone pathways, so supplementing with preg or prog would be useful. When I used exemestane 100mg of preg took away all the side-effects. Ray thinks that AIs are not so good idea and rather using progesterone and pregnenolone along with many dietary methods, like enough A/D, are necessary to shift from the estrogenic stress state. Having good liver function is necessary to remove estrogen, and intestinal stress can be a major contributor to estrogen excess.

Pregnenolone Is As Potent As Progesterone As An (irreversible) Aromatase Inhibitor

Progesterone does not need an introduction here and most people are likely aware of its antiestrogenic effects. A few years ago, I posted a thread with an old French study showing that a 500mg daily dose pregnenolone completely blocked estrogen's effects - an effect identical to what...

raypeatforum.com

I cannot use pregnenolone alone without some kind of AI since it makes abdominal bloating worse, to the point where I get liver pressure - most of it converts to estrogen since my 5AR pathway is still seriously downregulated. In combo with exe I did feel some benefits and similar effects from pregnenolone as pre-PFS, but not fully.

The 200 mg of pregnenolone I'm taking with the exemestane until tommorow, then I will let things fall where they may for a while. Unfortunately most of the other dietary & supplemental interventions do very little so I had to get it under control by pharmacological means for the time being, because this estrogen excess is also fueling my benign liver tumor so I need that under control ASAP.

 

[Xemnoraq]

Does anyone think its possible progesterone can cause long term pfs type symptoms?progesterone is known to cause numbing of the penis and its anti-androgenic in higher doses similar to finasteride, my theory has been that for women at least progesterone is their main defence against estrogen, and for men its test and the androgens, so when we do anything that inhibits androgen activity we could be basically causing an andropause type state where estrogen remains unopposed, the test would have been our natural defence but weve knocked it out, and progesterone isnt the main defence against estrogen in males it seems so its almost like we could be knocking out our essential main defence hormone, because its not like males have ovaries to produce mass amounts of progesterone to compensate for the low T and control estrogen, so when we stop taking the progesterone we could be left with less androgens and the progesterone was protecting from estrogen but only while taking it,

Just a theory, this seemed to be my experience with progesterone developing symptoms i could only describe as anti-androgenic or estrogenic, and for vice versa, if women took something like finasteride but the opposite, instead it lowered progesterone isnt it very possible it could cause a similar reaction cause menopause type symptoms in women by knocking out their main line of natural defense to estrogen.

Im not sure myself but i just wanted to throw it out there and hear peoples thoughts on this, Ray himself has even mentioned that too much progesterone in males can cause undesirable effects so he seems to be more on the side of pregnenolone and dhea for men

 

[Charger]

Finasteride is basically nothing more than an 'altered' form of Progesterone. Can it cause longterm PFS? Dunno, but it can absolutely be anti-androgenic and cause similar symptoms to PFS if dosed too high on a consistent basis.