LeeLemonoil
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- Joined
- Sep 24, 2016
- Messages
- 4,265
Thanks, very interesting !
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What are the effects of Zaditor that you experience?Wanted to give a brief update on this thread...
I have toyed with the ocular route of administration on and off for about 2 years now. Here are some observations:
Updates to follow.
- Virtually any amount of alcohol in the eye is unpleasant. The only reason I imagine I was able to tolerate it was a moderate to severe "ocular block" -- which was one of the reasons I was using ophthalmics in the first place. I think I would have been able to use vitamin K indefinitely if it weren't for the alcohol in the IdeaLabs formula.
- Zaditor (ketotifen) is subtle but works. The effects plateau early on, after about 10 drops per eye, but the psychological relief it provides is real.
- Bromantane, which I've been using orally in high doses,~500 mg/day, to some effect, not only doesn't hurt in the eye, it works and continues to work after repeated administration. I'm using a 3% solution in saline, which is 100 times more concentrated than Zaditor (.035%).
What are the effects of Zaditor that you experience?
Interesting. I feel that I get these results from Ketotifen under my tongue or on the skin. Very low doses too--from 10-40mcg. I think some of your benefit may be systemic. But some is almost surely related to direct effect on your eyes as well.Hey man. Nice to see you back. I had seen you post some detailed results from trying some antihistamines in the eye iirc. I was impressed but then again I've come to expect a nice level of detail from you. Always a pleasure to read your posts. Anyway.
Zaditor reduces pressure on my eye I think. Gives me slightly more psychological bandwidth. I didn't and don't track temps, pulse, any of the classic Ray metrics. It's more of a "I'm less crazy than I was before" kind of thing.
In case anyone is interested, I've been reading Reich and the "segments of armor" portion of his Character Analysis book and he says an ocular block ("armor ring") must be removed before blocks further down the body will respond/loosen. There was a remark somewhere on the internet about how his students were more impressed by the improvement of psychological well-being more so than any gains in visual acuity after removing an ocular block. When I first started this experiment, I wasn't aware of how much of a master switch it would/could be. I just knew I was getting more relief from eye drops than from oral or even topical supplements of various stripes.
Bromantane seems so promising that I think I can drop oral supplements altogether, i.e., eliminate confounding variables, and see where the eye experiment takes me. @Lokzo, you inspired me to pick up some bromantane and I'm really happy with the decision. I wish I had known about it years ago.
Interesting. I feel that I get these results from Ketotifen under my tongue or on the skin. Very low doses too--from 10-40mcg. I think some of your benefit may be systemic. But some is almost surely related to direct effect on your eyes as well.
Zaditor reduces pressure on my eye I think. Gives me slightly more psychological bandwidth. I didn't and don't track temps, pulse, any of the classic Ray metrics. It's more of a "I'm less crazy than I was before" kind of thing.
Ketotifen is OTC in the US and many other places. However, nobody sells Ketotifen (other than Zaditor) in the US. I buy mine in Mexico as a liquid suspension with each drop = 10mcg.Is your ketotifen OTC? I can only find Zaditor.
I'm envisioning mechanical effects, which would be both local and systemic:
- reduced eye pressure...
- reduced strain on the optic nerve hence a lesser load on the occipital lobe and maybe the muscles of the back of the head, which give major direction to the rest of the body through the superficial back line, if you're into the whole fascia angle...
- Reich said the optic chiasma, where the optic nerves cross, is a nexus of sorts involving all the vegetative centers. "Contraction of the vegetative centers can well reduce all autonomic functioning, including respiration, and interfere with development of various organs of the body, especially the circulatory system and genitals, and even the body itself, thus giving rise to the asthenic type." [link]
Ketotifen is OTC in the US and many other places. However, nobody sells Ketotifen (other than Zaditor) in the US. I buy mine in Mexico as a liquid suspension with each drop = 10mcg.
Marca del Ahorro Ketotifeno 20 ml oral Adulto 120 ml solucion
A lot of the time I put it under my tongue. Which is really topical and not oral if it adsorbs there. Otherwise, the inner forearms. It has some sugar in it (to cover the flavor of ketotifen which is mildly bitter) so it can leave a little stickiness. But even that seems to absorb eventually.Thanks! Where do you find luck with topical admin?
@LeeLemonoil
My dumb **** just put a solid drop of methylene blue (MB) in my right eye. Undilluted, so probably about 1mg. Everything turned blue for a second, lol, and then the pain came. It was intense, especially under my eye, and keeping it open too long was impossible. I felt a burn in my throat where I had taken some MB earlier, I wonder if the eye drop made its way through my sinuses. After maybe 15 minutes of agony, the pain dulled down and focused in the front. I'm feeling around on it and there's a ridge (or a dip) as I feel up towards my brows, and below it (right about where the iris starts) there is some hurt-so-good dull pain that responds to the most gentle massage.
Wasn't planning to continue the experiment per se because my intentions can't be easily communicated, but I keep coming back to it. Might have an actual eye injury. Had an accident in sports a few years back where I flat-out face-slammed another player running at full speed. Definitely had a concussion. Right eye (same eye) was the focal point of the injury. Never had any rebound pain, or any sensations I would associate with healing. Just deadness.
I was actually intending to put a very diluted drop of MB in my eye prior to this, though I'm reckless and tend to make advances through accidents, so I didn't let this go to waste. I don't intend to use a full mg again (never did) but it brings up a neat angle in one of Peat's papers on cataracts:
"There is some knowledge about the effects of systemic disease on the eye, but very little about the effects of particular parts of the eye on systemic physiology, and relatively few physicians are aware of the effects of one part of the eye on the other parts of the eye. A few of these physiological interactions within the eye are very interesting. For example, injury to the lens powerfully stimulates regeneration of nerves in the retina (Fischer, et al., 2000). Things which injure the lens enough to cause cataracts to develop might also be injuring the retina, but the emission of stimulating substances from the lens must be a compensating influence."
Cataracts: water, energy, light, and aging
Couldn't find the full article but the full abstract to the Fischer study is here: Cataractogenic lens injury prevents traumatic ganglion cell death and promotes axonal regeneration both in vivo and in culture
One can imagine less torturous, more finely tuned methods of injury than an oral dose of MB in the eye.
What about a diluted drop with red light (photosensitization [PDT])?
Interesting. Any updates? Was sight different after the MB-eye accident? :)
Although the damage/regeneration paper is very interesting, MB possibly stains the cornea. I would be curious to see a study with extremely diluted MB and red light at 670nm, since this has recently been discussed as a possible treatment for cataracts. I hasten to add I am not recommending this as a thing to do, whilst they can be synergistic it might be extremely damaging if done without proper precautions.
I'm very fascinated by this thread, will be following in case there are more write-ups, and will be on the look out for any topical ones you start.
Thanks, Creaks, glad you are getting something of my madness! :)
Speaking of topicals...
The water-in-silicone kit is a game changer, it will handle quite a bit of "actives" - water-soluble additions like vitamin C. My sister shills for this MaryKay esque MLM called Beauty Counter and they make a 1 ounce 10% vitamin C with an entourage of a thousand different herbal extracts for $90. I made an ounce of my own 10% cream (without the nice smells) for approximately $2.50.
Even if none is absorbed systemically, the skin probably has big requirements for C. My city's water smells like it came out of a swimming pool some days and I take long baths in it, there must be some damage from the chlorine exposure.
The highest concentration C cream I've seen is weirdly the cheapest and has 23%. People say it's grainy. I wonder if that's undissolved C crystals. No graininess in my 10%, that's probably high enough.
I'm browsing Lotioncrafter's site, they have a list of active ingredients they sell for creams, and GABA (!) is one. (Added to cart.) There is such a thing as a commercial GABA cream and it's dumb expensive. Here's one that has GABA and theanine that's cheaper but apparently you can just toss plain l-theanine on the skin and it has an anti-inflammatory effect.
Notable Exposure symptoms: Non-toxic by oral ingestion (based on nature of material). No other adverse clinical effects are known to be associated with exposure to this material
If ingested: Drink water, seek medical attention
...
Skin contact: Wash material off the skin with soap and water
I'd be curious about this too, I also take long baths, and I've wanted to look into those vitamin C filters that are around which you can just wrap around the tap, but I'm not sure how effective they would be, if at all. I'm quite wary of ascorbic acid in general (is that the form you'd be using?) - because Ray Peat has warned in quite strong terms the issues with adulterants. I've bought Quali-C products manufactured in the UK before, and the first batch I got was very grainy, but uniform - the texture was similar to white sugar. The next batch I got, after the same company started distributing on Amazon, was an extremely fine powder, which clumped together easily. I noticed faster bowel titration with the first batch than the second, but I'd built up a tolerance by the time the powdery stuff came. Do you suppose the process of turning it into cream might filter out some of the adulterants Peat is concerned about? Or is it still a potential issue you'd just rather not worry about?
Gelatin is a substance which confuses me quite a lot. I read a very lengthy article once on different kinds of it, the levels of sensitivity to heat and cold, &c. - but I came out of it more confused than I came in. I would have thought the same site might sell perhaps some kind of serrapeptase product if they had a supplier who was harvesting silkworms, given that seems to be quite a popular thing, but there's nothing there. Probably doesn't mean anything.