Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[Richiebogie]

Sorry I ran out of time to edit.

If casein has a molecular formula of

C1080H1695N268O319S6P3

Then this has a molecular mass 12*1080 + 1695 + 14*268 + 16*319 + 32*6 + 31*3 = 23,796

Is it 1.5 retinols for one of these casein proteins? Then the percentage of retinol to retinol+casein by mass drops to

(286 * 1.5) / ((286 * 1.5) + 23796) * 100 = 1.77%

If 100ml of milk has 3g protein, then it has approximately 53mg of retinol hidden in the protein.

Now 0.9mg of retinol is the recommended daily intake of retinol for men, so 53mg is 59 times the daily recommended intake assuming we absorb all of the retinol from 100ml milk.

I am still drinking 250ml of milk and eating the odd bit of cheese, so I am still getting a lot of vitamin A even if whey has no retinol bound to it!

 

[DanDare]

Sorry I ran out of time to edit.

If casein has a molecular formula of

C1080H1695N268O319S6P3

Then this has a molecular mass 12*1080 + 1695 + 14*268 + 16*319 + 32*6 + 31*3 = 23,796

Is it 1.5 retinols for one of these casein proteins? Then the percentage of retinol to retinol+casein by mass drops to

(286 * 1.5) / ((286 * 1.5) + 23796) * 100 = 1.77%

If 100ml of milk has 3g protein, then it has approximately 53mg of retinol hidden in the protein.

Now 0.9mg of retinol is the recommended daily intake of retinol for men, so 53mg is 59 times the daily recommended intake assuming we absorb all of the retinol from 100ml milk.

I am still drinking 250ml of milk and eating the odd bit of cheese, so I am still getting a lot of vitamin A even if whey has no retinol bound to it!

I don't think we can calculate it using this approach because

Sorry I ran out of time to edit.

If casein has a molecular formula of

C1080H1695N268O319S6P3

Then this has a molecular mass 12*1080 + 1695 + 14*268 + 16*319 + 32*6 + 31*3 = 23,796

Is it 1.5 retinols for one of these casein proteins? Then the percentage of retinol to retinol+casein by mass drops to

(286 * 1.5) / ((286 * 1.5) + 23796) * 100 = 1.77%

If 100ml of milk has 3g protein, then it has approximately 53mg of retinol hidden in the protein.

Now 0.9mg of retinol is the recommended daily intake of retinol for men, so 53mg is 59 times the daily recommended intake assuming we absorb all of the retinol from 100ml milk.

I am still drinking 250ml of milk and eating the odd bit of cheese, so I am still getting a lot of vitamin A even if whey has no retinol bound to it!

I think it's an unknown. We don't know how much retinol is binding to the casein, whether it is saturated with retinol in that ratio or not.

 

[RealNeat]

Are you trolling here or?

Carrot juice may be helpful for cancer (think Gerson) because consumption of it produces large amounts of chemotheraputic retinoic acid, toxic carotenoid breakdown products may help too. It shouldn't be consumed otherwise though, studies show that daily consumption of the amount of beta carotene in five carrots causes an increased incidence of cancer.

where are these studies and how many "daily" exposures are required.. meaning how long did it take.

 

[Peater]

Retinoic acid needed for ceruloplasmin to help deal with copper?

Given its seemingly toxic effects and Grant showing no ill effects, what are they not seeing/misinterpreting?

Induction of ceruloplasmin synthesis by retinoic acid in rats: influence of dietary copper and vitamin A status - PubMed

Ceruloplasmin, a copper-containing acute phase plasma protein, has been shown to be regulated by 13-cis retinoic acid in rats. Ceruloplasmin activity was significantly increased within 24 h and remained elevated for at least 72 h after a single injection of 13-cis retinoic acid. With daily...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Richiebogie]

I think it's an unknown. We don't know how much retinol is binding to the casein, whether it is saturated with retinol in that ratio or not.

A high amount of hidden or rarely documented vitamin A bound to casein would explain why calf liver is so high in vitamin A.

 

[mosaic01]

A high amount of hidden or rarely documented vitamin A bound to casein would explain why calf liver is so high in vitamin A.

Interesting, never thought of it like that. But yeah, the vA has to come from somewhere. And it's so absurdely high in calf liver. Another possibility is that cows these days are so full of retinol that they already poison the calf before birth.

 

[DanDare]

A high amount of hidden or rarely documented vitamin A bound to casein would explain why calf liver is so high in vitamin A.

Sure is possible, I just don't know. Definitely good to consider all possibilities such as this

 

[Dr. B]

You still get retinoic acid with the casein content.

That's literally one of the studies that got Grant interested in the whole thing.

Yes indeed:

Binding of vitamin A with milk α- and β-caseins

The binding sites of retinol and retinoic acid with milk α- and β-caseins were determined, using constant protein concentration and various retinoid c…

www.sciencedirect.com

"The number of bound retinol molecules per protein (n) was 1.5 (±0.1) for α-casein and 1.0 (±0.1) for β-casein, while 1 molecule of retinoic acid was bound in the α- and β-casein complexes. Molecular modelling showed different binding sites for retinol and retinoic acid on α– and β-caseins with more stable complexes formed with α-casein. Retinoid–casein complexation induced minor alterations of protein conformation. Caseins might act as carriers for transportation of retinoids to target molecules."


Proteins are like soil for minerals and other nutrients...

So for example clay soils hold onto potassium, but not sodium, hence the ocean is high in sodium, extremely low in potassium. In our bodies, if the proteins are formed correctly, they hold onto what they require, what they are designed for ( so bone cells make a protein scaffold which has an affinity for calcium). And heart cells are made which do not hold onto calcium. If something goes wrong with the protein synthesis ( caused by vitamin a) we have a tissue which binds to the wrong thing.

But im wondering is this some sort of vitamin A that cant be tested for? For instance why does skim milk contain 0 vitamin A on nutrition labels besides the A they add into it. Likewise with many cheeses, yogurts, skyr, whey protein products are labelled as 0 vitamin A. Are they not able to test for vitamin A thats attached to proteins? So even fat free yogurts, whey, and cheese products have a lot of vitamin A in them? It has also been said to be bound together with fat so anytime you reduce the fat content you reduce the fat soluble vitamins content.

 

[Richiebogie]

100g of Butter has only half a day’s requirement of vitamin A.

So cheese and milk are out while bread and butter are in!

 

[mosaic01]

100g of Butter has only half a day’s requirement of vitamin A.

The RDA for vitamin A has been lowered to 700 mcg for women in some European countries, and to 850 mcg for men.

100 g butter have around 650 mcg retinol.

10-20 g butter per day seem to be acceptable on a otherwise zero A diet.

if you don't use raw milk butter, there will also be a small amount of retinoic acid.

The fact that the RDA for women is considered merely 700 mcg in light of "new evidence" shows that even the data that is used to promote vA as a vitamin is really showing how little can be justified. 700mcg is nothing, when one factors in sources of carotenoids. It is impossible to stay below 700mcg when on a whole foods diet and not carefully selecting foods.

 

[DanDare]

100g of Butter has only half a day’s requirement of vitamin A.

So cheese and milk are out while bread and butter are in!

I wouldn't

 

[Highserotonin90]

I have contacted the manufacturers regarding skim milk and Greek yogurt. Unlike the generic data present on cronometer they declared to me that they are free from vitamin A (both basic and added).

 

[Peater]

But im wondering is this some sort of vitamin A that cant be tested for? For instance why does skim milk contain 0 vitamin A on nutrition labels besides the A they add into it. Likewise with many cheeses, yogurts, skyr, whey protein products are labelled as 0 vitamin A. Are they not able to test for vitamin A thats attached to proteins? So even fat free yogurts, whey, and cheese products have a lot of vitamin A in them? It has also been said to be bound together with fat so anytime you reduce the fat content you reduce the fat soluble vitamins content.

Download the free PDF books, they're very interesting and this is covered in them. It's to do with retinoic acid being wrapped in rbp. They didn't even wash it out of the casein with heated ethanol. Hence the zero vit A diet tests being erroneous.

 

[DanDare]

Good luck to everyone trying to justify continuing to eat dairy despite Grant Genereuxs and Smith's recommendations

 

[mosaic01]

Good luck to everyone trying to justify continuing to eat dairy despite Grant Genereuxs and Smith's recommendations

There were several members here if I remember correctly who tried low fat dairy on a low A diet and they had to stop at one point because it didn't work out. Due to the casein attracting retinol, it's pretty much a black box, no one knows how much vA is in there.

And dairy is pretty much a non-food for adults, since it signals the body to grow when it shouldn't (growth factors, calcium), promoting cancer and heart disease.

 

[Peater]

There were several members here if I remember correctly who tried low fat dairy on a low A diet and they had to stop at one point because it didn't work out. Due to the casein attracting retinol, it's pretty much a black box, no one knows how much vA is in there.

And dairy is pretty much a non-food for adults, since it signals the body to grow when it shouldn't (growth factors, calcium), promoting cancer and heart disease.

The pasteurisation process 'cooks it in' too, I think.

 

[Peater]

Good luck to everyone trying to justify continuing to eat dairy despite Grant Genereuxs and Smith's recommendations

Well I have to admit I am only in this for myself, on a mercenary basis - as I just want to feel and look better! If it works, it works.

People can do what they want but ultimately I've been here this long but something still feels 'off' enough to try this out.

 

[DanDare]

There were several members here if I remember correctly who tried low fat dairy on a low A diet and they had to stop at one point because it didn't work out. Due to the casein attracting retinol, it's pretty much a black box, no one knows how much vA is in there.

And dairy is pretty much a non-food for adults, since it signals the body to grow when it shouldn't (growth factors, calcium), promoting cancer and heart disease.

My concern exactly .

Those considering dairy at least need to find an answer to whether vitamin a food tests are capable of detecting casein bound retinol. For instance yogurt manufacturers are not doing in house vitamin a testing, so they probably use the same companies and procedures as what determines the generic data.

It's even possible that vitamin a is less of a problem than other components of dairy. I am not saying this, however in principle plenty of people correct issues just by dairy elimination.

 

[Dr. B]

I have contacted the manufacturers regarding skim milk and Greek yogurt. Unlike the generic data present on cronometer they declared to me that they are free from vitamin A (both basic and added).

They always claim they dont contain vitamin A but apparently theres a different way to test for it.

 

[mosaic01]

It's even possible that vitamin a is less of a problem than other components of dairy. I am not saying this, however in principle plenty of people correct issues just by dairy elimination.

Dairy is certainly the most problematic food that exists.

There's a study that shows around 30-40% of the retinol suddenly disappears after pasteurization. Maybe the cooking process makes the retinol attach to the casein. I doubt the retinol turns into retinoic acid simply by cooking. For that you need higher temperatures.