Getting Fat On T3?

[Lokzo]

Cypro with T3? So you take a downer (cypro) which kills histamine and lowers dopamine at high enough doses and thus increases appetite and then you take T3 which is supposed to stimulate neurotransmitters like dopamine, noradrenaline, and histamine and also stimulate the metabolic rate and increase calories burned.

You are taking 2 things that are fighting/opposing each other, cypro is winning because you are gaining weight. You cant raise the metabolism because of cypro ******* with your neurotransmitters and "stress" hormones which need to go up when you take T3 but they can't.

T3 does not get you fat it easily can drop fat off the body, its probably other things you are taking causing issues preventing it from working properly like the cypro.

Also increased estrogen is normal from T3, T3 raises all hormones.

Well said man.

 

[Spartan300]

@empoweredliving

At 60mcg of pure T3 you are most likely running on Adrenaline.

Not sure where you got 60mcg from? The most T3 I have supplemented in a day is 24mcg.

 

[Andman]

At 60mcg of pure T3 you are most likely running on Adrenaline. People that pump adrenaline during the night also put on weight on their bellies & lose muscle tissue. Your adrenaline overdrive will not show up on blood tests. It will show up on a hair test. For those that are interested in learning more with case studies link attached. Why Guess when you can TEST? https://ideal.clickfunnels.com/sales-page

gbolduev is back? haha

 

[empoweredliving]

@empoweredliving


Not sure where you got 60mcg from? The most T3 I have supplemented in a day is 24mcg.

Not sure either but even @ 24 mcg of T3 may well be too much for you it is 2 x the physiological dose.

 

[DaveFoster]

Been applying Peat principals, diet and supplements for around 4 years and very little has made much difference.

Last bloodwork showed high androgens but I still experience poor sleep, libido, exercise tolerance and worsening body composition.

I'd held off because it seemed like a relatively drastic step but I finally decided to try supplemental thryroid.
T3 has improved mood and temps to degree but all other symptoms remain.

The biggest surprise is that I'm gaining belly fat quicker than I ever have.
My expectation based off reduced stress hormones was the exact opposite!

What might be happening here?

Will you post your diet?

 

[mrchibbs]

I feel much better stopping the t3/t4 and doing exercise every day. 28m.

Ray is and has always been sedentary. I personally believe that if you are able to exercise intelligently then your chances of needing thyroid drop significantly.

If you're well enough to exercise then look into doing moderate / heavy kettlebell snatches 5-7 days a week. Has been a game changer for me. I don't have the time to take temps and adjust dosages etc. It's too much of a distraction and unhealthy if you don't actually need it.

Not too dismiss your experience, I love kettlebells they're great, but your position on not ''taking temps'' seems to stem a bit from your own frustration at thyroid supplementation. For many, including myself, taking temperatures as an indicator of health has been nothing short of a miraculous therapeutic tool. It is not a ''distraction'' to take your morning temperature when waking up. It is the simplest and most useful diagnostic tool we have. But it's ok, people aren't necessarily supposed to keep taking a synthetic t3/t4 forever.

Maybe read Broda Barnes book (or re-read it), it may bring in new perspective on the topic. As Danny Roddy said, taking some thyroid is akin to supplementation it in the diet, as it used to be in common foods. Our environment is very anti-thyroid, so taking a little supplemental thyroid can only help, and as health improves, we need a lot less exogenous thyroid.

 

[Peater Pan]

Keep in mind the total production of T3 in your whole body is only about 1.5 mcg per hour

Is that a fact? I though Peat said it's around 4 mcg.

 

[Peater Pan]

Ray never recommended 60mcg of T3 a day...he said to approximate physiological amounts. Even the therapies (which I don't think are good) that speak of large doses of T3 only use it as a reset, never a long term thing.

At most Ray talked about nibbling on a 25mcg tablet of T3, or better, closer to 10mcg daily (i.e. nibbling on half a cynomel tablet). Or a product with 1-2mcg drops every hour.



I for one, have a fundamental disagreement with @redsun regarding cyproheptadine. It has helped me tremendously, but should be used intermittently. It helps to break out of a stress state, and many people experien If you're not responding well to thyroid treatment, and you've broken from a previous stressed state, you're going to be at a much lower metabolic rate, which explains the accumulation of fat.

T3 doesn't help if there is lack of T4 to act as a reservoir through the night. That typically means it's time to be using NDT thyroid or a T3/T4 combo.

T3/T4 combos are most complicated to introduce, because they don't act like NDT thyroid, and if you take too much of it at anytime, it can wreck havoc on your liver, create a backlog of T4 and cause your temps to drop altogether. In this context, any excess of T3 (i.e. above a physiological amount of around 3-4mcg an hour), will cause the T4 present to be converted to rT3. So it's not T3 itself which gets converted to rT3, it's the T4 which isn't getting turned into T3 because usually something is lacking in the diet, or too much exogenous T4 was supplemented.

Guys, I don't mean to sound condescending, because I've been there too, but be careful with thyroid therapy. It's doesn't work magically, it takes time, and it especially doesn't work if it's not done right. Start slow, and be meticulous. Even with a therapy done right, with slowly increasing amounts of thyroid, we're talking 2 months before reaching appreciable benefits. When taking a T3/T4 combo, it's crucial to start as low as 0.25-0.5 grains (about an eighth of a cynoplus tablet), and only increase slowly, every 2 weeks, if the basal temperature is not trending up.

For severely hypothyroid people (like I was) and many others on this forum, any exogenous T4 is tricky, and needs to be introduced very slowly, with food.

I wholeheartedly recommend these two resources:

Thyroid: Therapies, Confusion, and Fraud

Ray Peat, PhD on Thyroid, Temperature, Pulse, and TSH

Broda Barnes's Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected Illness

Severe hypo here (TSH>150 in 2011). Hashi's. Rollercoaster decade, especially since WP dried up. The new stuff is crap. What's your protocol? What do you think about Kenneth Blanchard's stuff vs. T3 only, etc.?

 

[Peater Pan]

Thanks!
NDT products can be taken once a day with food. Different advantages/disadvantages.

2 grains at once is ~120 mcg of T4 and ~20 mcg of T3. Isn't that a bit much in a single dose?

 

[Peater Pan]

Looked into Ken Blanchard - seems bright. One oddity I noticed is that he said the average thyroid gland produces 6 mcg of T3 a day. I thought the thought was that we produce 1.5 mcg per hour ideally?

Peat says 4 mcg hour, no?

 

[ecstatichamster]

I have not gained weight from T3.

 

[mrchibbs]

2 grains at once is ~120 mcg of T4 and ~20 mcg of T3. Isn't that a bit much in a single dose?

If it was synthetic thyroid, yeah it would be too big of a dose, but NDT is metabolized slowly, with food, so 2 grains at once is no biggie and very convenient.

The problem is that if you're severely hypothyroid you may have trouble converting T4 to T3, so the 4:1 ratio might not be so adequate to pull you out of full blown hypothyroidism. A 2:1 ratio is better.

But NDT products are probably easier, but it's important to ramp the dose slowly by 0.25 grains every 2 weeks with a lot of food. But you might require much more than the typical 2 grain dose, at least for a couple of months, to really start to feel better.

And while the temperature has to rise, you don't need to hit perfect optimal temp, the important thing is to relieve symptoms and feel better.

 

[Peater Pan]

If it was synthetic thyroid, yeah it would be too big of a dose, but NDT is metabolized slowly, with food, so 2 grains at once is no biggie and very convenient.

The problem is that if you're severely hypothyroid you may have trouble converting T4 to T3, so the 4:1 ratio might not be so adequate to pull you out of full blown hypothyroidism. A 2:1 ratio is better.

But NDT products are probably easier, but it's important to ramp the dose slowly by 0.25 grains every 2 weeks with a lot of food. But you might require much more than the typical 2 grain dose, at least for a couple of months, to really start to feel better.

And while the temperature has to rise, you don't need to hit perfect optimal temp, the important thing is to relieve symptoms and feel better.

Thanks. Great advice. I forgot about NDT being bound to thyroglobulin. The only time I felt relatively well, got waking temps to 97.8 was on 3 grains of the 2015-2018 WP Thyroid (1 grain, 3x/day w/food). That's gone (recent recall for '<90%'product). I'd estimate it was maybe 30%. It was hell. Acella's NP is also now trash. I was on it and hyper due to 'superpotency .' Switched to synthetics and it's been bumpy. Played with ratios down to 2:1 but not there. Considering Dr. Blanchard's protocols per @marsaday 's advice. Lessening my gip on the notion of perfect temps. Considering progesterone. Ordered some LGS NDT.

 

[mrchibbs]

Thanks. Great advice. I forgot about NDT being bound to thyroglobulin. The only time I felt relatively well, got waking temps to 97.8 was on 3 grains of the 2015-2018 WP Thyroid (1 grain, 3x/day w/food). That's gone (recent recall for '<90%'product). I'd estimate it was maybe 30%. It was hell. Acella's NP is also now trash. I was on it and hyper due to 'superpotency .' Switched to synthetics and it's been bumpy. Played with ratios down to 2:1 but not there. Considering Dr. Blanchard's protocols per @marsaday 's advice. Lessening my gip on the notion of perfect temps. Considering progesterone. Ordered some LGS NDT.

It's really a shame that the NDT supply has degraded so much. Don't know much about Blanchard's protocol, is it small spread out doses of T3? If so, that's OK, I think large doses of T3 are positively dangerous though (some other "protocols" advocate for this).

If you could try to go back to your 3x1grain approach that might be best, of course you need to find a good product for you. And you need to ramp it up again, because all products are different.

 

[CLASH]

@Spartan300

I think I have a similar demographic to you.

In my experience:

1) cyproheptadine is great for occasional use to cut a stress response or help with sleep. Consistent use, in my experience lowers dopamine. The lowering of dopamine can effect prolactin, androgens, weight gain etc.

2) I use tyromax, my friends do as well (I showed them Broda's/ Peats protocols). We are in our 20's, over 6' and weigh in between 180lbs to 200lbs. For all 4 of us it took atleast 2 grains before temps budged, in the winter I routinely use 3 grains. My GF who is 115lbs uses almost 2 grains. My sister who is 110lbs uses 2 grains. It took a few weeks to work up to the dose that raised temps. I worked my male friends up in 1 grain doses, and my female friends/ family/ girlfriends up in 1/2 grain doses (unless they were larger women).

In order for thyroid to work well, I had to have them adjust thier diet first and titrate calories up. Most people were severely undereating. Using thyroid while undereating can crush you, I know because I did it to myself.

 

[mrchibbs]

@CLASH

Wow. You seem to be very successful at positively influencing the lives of your family/friends. Congrats. Not many people are successful in doing so.

 

[CLASH]

@CLASH

Wow. You seem to be very successful at positively influencing the lives of your family/friends. Congrats. Not many people are successful in doing so.

The trick is I get them when they are sick. I dont usually offer help to people, I only provide info when they ask. Plus, they see me doing all these "weird things" and sometimes it piques their interest.

 

[mrchibbs]

The trick is I get them when they are sick. I dont usually offer help to people, I only provide info when they ask. Plus, they see me doing all these "weird things" and sometimes it piques their interest.

You seem to have the right mindset. Very impressive. Having an entourage of people with good metabolic function probably makes for very enjoyable experiences. Plus you're all bonding over your shared habits. Great Job :)

 

[Scenes]

@Spartan300

I think I have a similar demographic to you.

In my experience:

1) cyproheptadine is great for occasional use to cut a stress response or help with sleep. Consistent use, in my experience lowers dopamine. The lowering of dopamine can effect prolactin, androgens, weight gain etc.

2) I use tyromax, my friends do as well (I showed them Broda's/ Peats protocols). We are in our 20's, over 6' and weigh in between 180lbs to 200lbs. For all 4 of us it took atleast 2 grains before temps budged, in the winter I routinely use 3 grains. My GF who is 115lbs uses almost 2 grains. My sister who is 110lbs uses 2 grains. It took a few weeks to work up to the dose that raised temps. I worked my male friends up in 1 grain doses, and my female friends/ family/ girlfriends up in 1/2 grain doses (unless they were larger women).

In order for thyroid to work well, I had to have them adjust thier diet first and titrate calories up. Most people were severely undereating. Using thyroid while undereating can crush you, I know because I did it to myself.

What's the result? Has it fixed symptoms of whatever or just temps?

I'm always undecided whether to go all out with thyroid supplementation, probably should.

 

[CLASH]

You seem to have the right mindset. Very impressive. Having an entourage of people with good metabolic function probably makes for very enjoyable experiences. Plus you're all bonding over your shared habits. Great Job :)

Haha while everyones temps are for the most part within range, I wouldnt say optimal metabolic function. Most of us are nurses and nurse practitioners and the job can crush you some days physically. The thyroid helps cope with the stress but it doesnt fully compensate, bad days of work or poor eating habits cause regression. Almost everyone I know in my age group (early to mid 20's) has an autoimmune condition or some inflammatory situation going on. My gf has psoriasis, sister IBS, one friend has psoriasis, another chronic allergic rhinitis that the doctors think is autoimmune, I have IBS, another friend has HPV in his throat that needs to be lasered every couple months so his airway wont close, another friend has chronic lyme disease with arthrtis, another has PCOS, another with hashimotos, a few with obesity, a few with chronic lyme, a few with mental disorders, a few with bad ADHD, quite a few with low T and libido issues. My generation is sick overall, all of these people are 28 and below. Even with perfect diets, thyroid supps and other supps I can put alot of my friends and family into remission or get the symptoms down so low that they dont cause any loss of quality of life but I cant seem to "cure" anyone. Small regressions in lifestyle habits trigger flares.