Excessive Fructose is Poison & Burden To The Liver & Mitochondria

[Dolomite]

Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of stress avoidance?

Like my handle, I am like a rock.

 

[Drareg]

Overeating makes you fat, high fat in the diet along with fructose, glucose will just get stored as fat, fat makes you fat when you over eat it.
Most people at the start were downing spoons of coconut oil with high fat ice cream.

A lesson for all of you on here, don't criticise Israel, Israel of course an arm of the corperate crown which then leads to rome/vatican.
Keep an eye out for pro Israel zionist/christian accounts on here to shill for these red herring styled narratives of fructose, vitamin A, "ray peat diet" etc

 

[charlie]

A lesson for all of you on here, don't criticise Israel, Israel of course an arm of the corperate crown which then leads to rome/vatican.
Keep an eye out for pro Israel zionist/christian accounts on here to shill for these red herring styled narratives of fructose, vitamin A, "ray peat diet" etc

Bro you dont even know where the true Israel is. You think it is in the middle east somewhere. Lost you are.

 

[tallglass13]

Another curiosity to anyone in the know... again these are genuine concerns
The folks that have given up the milk, and upped the beans youre PTH must be through the roof with the extra phosphorus and lack of calcium. If there was anything that Ray stood by(other than pufa, high carb) with complete conviction (because its backed up by so many studies) is that high PTH causes a whole host of issues and knock on effects on prolactin, cortisol, increased NO, increased chance of osteoporosis, kidney stone etc etc....are you folks not worried about this or are yous getting your calcium elsewhere? Even if I was to try this prescribed diet I would at the very least still drink a litre of milk a day. Was surprised to hear though that the US has a pretty strict fortification program with added A & D, pretty tough break!

This is were it got interesting. A few people in the low VA thread did PTH and it was lower end. Grants TSH , testosterone, temps, b/p where all Optimal. This , for me proved that it was safe with real results. With Ray, he frequently spoke about the importance of high calcium diet to keep PTH down, but did not prove true in real labs. Maybe it was right in the long run, but I don't believe Ray had many patients test for PTH and test for Vitamin A in real time.

 

[Nfinkelstein]

Bro you dont even know where the true Israel is. You think it is in the middle east somewhere. Lost you are.

So true.

 

[Clyde]

The sickest, most desperate people are the ones most likely to get injured by the idea that you can't overeat sugar. Healthy, young people looking to optimize can laugh about how it didn't work for them and bounce right back but it could be the tipping point for someone sick and frail. An 80yo is hundreds of times more likely to have a heart attack than a 20yo.

Imo posts like this let people feel comfortable challenging RP's ideas which are often distorted and shielded from nuance without feeling like it's disrespectful or provocative.

Ray Peat himself was eating oats and lots of cooked vegetables while restricting protein according to his last few interviews. He didn't mention eating more sugar.

 

[Apple]

Fructose has been found tobe much more susceptible to autoxidation than glucose or sucrose. This autoxidation is promoted by phosphateand generates free radicals that can in turn oxidize PUFAand LDL (Lawrence et al. 2008).

Promotion by phosphate of Fe(III)- and Cu(II)-catalyzed autoxidation of fructose - PubMed

Although the oxidative destruction of glucose and fructose has been studied by several investigators over the past century, the mechanism by which phosphate promotes these oxidation reactions is not known. A wide range of oxidation products have been used to monitor the oxidation of sugars and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Promotion by phosphate of Fe(III)- and Cu(II)-catalyzed autoxidation of fructose​

Abstract​

Although the oxidative destruction of glucose and fructose has been studied by several investigators over the past century, the mechanism by which phosphate promotes these oxidation reactions is not known. A wide range of oxidation products have been used to monitor the oxidation of sugars and free radicals have been shown to be involved. The influence of phosphate concentration on the rate of production of free radicals and several sugar oxidation products has been studied. It was found that fructose is much more susceptible to autoxidation than glucose, galactose, or sucrose. The promotion of sugar oxidation by phosphate was found to be iron dependent. Addition of the iron chelators, diethylenetriaminepentaacetic acid (DTPA) and desferrioxamine completely suppressed the oxidation reactions, even at high concentrations of phosphate. Formaldehyde was positively identified as a product of fructose oxidation by HPLC analysis of its acetylacetone adduct. A mechanism is proposed in which phosphate cleaves the oxo bridges of the iron(III)-fructose complex, based on UV spectral analysis and magnetic susceptibility measurements, and thereby catalyzes the autoxidation of fructose.

 

[Lucy O]

thanks.

we will miss you but I can understand

 

[InChristAlone]

Sugar-sweetened beverage intake and serum testosterone levels in adult males 20–39 years old in the United States

This population-based study was designed to investigate whether consumption of sugar-sweetened beverages (SSB) is associated with lower serum total testosterone concentration in men 20–39 years old.All data for this study were retrieved ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

“Sugar-sweetened beverage consumption is significantly associated with low serum testosterone in men 20–39 years old in the United States.”

 

[mostlylurking]

we will miss you but I can understand

Thanks. Charlie evidently reactivated my account. Not sure what I'll do with that. But I did get to see your message!

 

[charlie]

Sugar-sweetened beverage intake and serum testosterone levels in adult males 20–39 years old in the United States

This population-based study was designed to investigate whether consumption of sugar-sweetened beverages (SSB) is associated with lower serum total testosterone concentration in men 20–39 years old.All data for this study were retrieved ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

“Sugar-sweetened beverage consumption is significantly associated with low serum testosterone in men 20–39 years old in the United States.”

The timing is impeccable, Divinely coordinated.

Thanks. Charlie evidently reactivated my account. Not sure what I'll do with that. But I did get to see your message!

Nice to see you back.

 

[RealNeat]

Like this?

View attachment 60826

This is what the blood oranges I had looked like. They weren’t as sweet as a navel or cara cara and had some tartness to them, almost like a hint of raspberry.

This theory falls flat on its face when we analyze tropical fruits, many of which are not hybridized or nearly as hybridized as your normal supermarket selection but often huge and sweet none the less. Also honey, which is a very holy food in almost all Abrahamic faiths with many parables drawn about it, along with dates, which are sweeter than sweet and have a high amount of fructose. Not to mention primates who almost exclusively subsist on leaves and fruit, if fructose was such a killer we would see primates dropping like flies. Whether you believe in evolution or not a primates anatomy is not different enough from ours to make fructose a poison for us and a superfood for them.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

This is were it got interesting. A few people in the low VA thread did PTH and it was lower end. Grants TSH , testosterone, temps, b/p where all Optimal. This , for me proved that it was safe with real results. With Ray, he frequently spoke about the importance of high calcium diet to keep PTH down, but did not prove true in real labs. Maybe it was right in the long run, but I don't believe Ray had many patients test for PTH and test for Vitamin A in real time.

I’ve had a PTH of 39 pg/mL (15-65 range) while I was on the Carnivore diet.

 

[curious_anthro]

@charlie do you have any thoughts about other types of sugar with lower fructose? Like palm sugar or brown rice syrup?

 

[charlie]

@charlie do you have any thoughts about other types of sugar with lower fructose? Like palm sugar or brown rice syrup?

I do not have any experience with those. I use pure glucose which is sold as dextrose.

 

[curious_anthro]

I do not have any experience with those. I use pure glucose which is sold as dextrose.

Okay thanks for your reply! I may experiment with all of the above. I believe brown rice syrup is maltose which is just glucose? Probably not a good idea to pound it but I’m struggling with the idea of going low sugar again after a few years of loving all the fruit and maple syrup

 

[Richiebogie]

I can drink a litre of not-from-concentrate orange juice and feel well but a litre of sugar-sweetened artificially coloured & flavoured water gives me cramps in the calves.

If you want to reduce fructose start with cutting down highly processed sugary foods before reducing fruit & fruit juice.

 

[charlie]

If you want to reduce fructose start with cutting down highly processed sugary foods before reducing fruit & fruit juice.

The biggest surge in my health was when I dropped fruit juice. Pure water is the way.

 

[Jennifer]

This is were it got interesting. A few people in the low VA thread did PTH and it was lower end. Grants TSH , testosterone, temps, b/p where all Optimal. This , for me proved that it was safe with real results. With Ray, he frequently spoke about the importance of high calcium diet to keep PTH down, but did not prove true in real labs. Maybe it was right in the long run, but I don't believe Ray had many patients test for PTH and test for Vitamin A in real time.

I’ve had a PTH of 39 pg/mL (15-65 range) while I was on the Carnivore diet.

I averaged a PTH of 12 pg/mL (15-65 range) while I was on a fruitarian diet and wasn’t yet supplementing with my homemade nettle infusion concentrate so I was getting very little calcium, however, I was getting well above the RDA for magnesium and my phosphate level was low—I averaged roughly 50 g of protein on 3,000+ calories daily—and Peatress recently posted this:

“When vitamin D or calcium is deficient, or when phosphate is excessive, and in hypoglycemia and stress (Ljunghall, et al., 1984), parathyroid hormone increases. This can lead to softening of bones, and hardening of soft tissues, especially arteries, sometimes brain, skin and other organs. Parathyroid hormone increases blood pressure, even before the calcium stiffening is detected. During the night, parathyroid hormone usually rises (Radjaipour 1986; Logue 1989, 1990; Fraser, 1998), and especially during aging, this causes a significant loss of calcium from the bones. Having a large part of the day's calcium at bedtime reduces the nocturnal rise of PTH and calcium loss from bones (Ohgitani, et al., 1997; Mortis, et al.,1997).” Dr. Peat – Adaptogenic Milk Newsletter

 

[Jennifer]

This theory falls flat on its face when we analyze tropical fruits, many of which are not hybridized or nearly as hybridized as your normal supermarket selection but often huge and sweet none the less. Also honey, which is a very holy food in almost all Abrahamic faiths with many parables drawn about it, along with dates, which are sweeter than sweet and have a high amount of fructose. Not to mention primates who almost exclusively subsist on leaves and fruit, if fructose was such a killer we would see primates dropping like flies. Whether you believe in evolution or not a primates anatomy is not different enough from ours to make fructose a poison for us and a superfood for them.

There are a lot of health theories circulating that fall flat on their face. Denise Minger wrote a thorough article years ago about wild fruit being as sweet, if not sweeter, than cultivated fruit and I can vouch for that. My family owns acres of land and wild raspberries and blackberries grow in abundance here. These berries taste nothing like their supermarket counterparts. They are as sweet as candy and my refractometer confirms it. The Brix on our wild berries are much higher than the cultivated, supermarket berries and I find them to be better tolerated too. So many things factor into why this is, but ripeness and growing conditions play a major role in a fruit’s sweetness and mineral content (Brix) and the amount of allergenic compounds it contains.

Fruit and/or honey has comprised at least 1/3 of my calories for the last 18 years, at least 1/2 of my calories for roughly 14 years of that and almost all my calories for the roughly 8 years total that I followed a fruitarian diet. I’ve been meticulous with my diet experiments and note taking since I was a teen and have gotten routine testing, as much as every 6 weeks, for the last 17 years, and much of what I’ve seen stated as “truth” in health circles does not align with my experience. In regards to the theory that fructose is a poison to the liver, my gallbladder disease (stones and biliary sludge) resolved while consuming upwards of 4 liters of fresh pressed fruit juice daily, and it was proven via before and after ultrasounds so for me it’s not harmful, but for someone like tca300 whose body doesn’t produce a necessary enzyme, it is. Context matters, something Ray stressed the importance of.

RealNeat, you bring up a good point about our anatomy compared to other primates. I posted about human gut morphology in relation to frugivores, and also faunivores, in this thread:

The only way to produce atherosclerosis in carnivores is to take out the thyroid gland;

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/ Very interesting read, but what catched my attention the most, was the beginning. Is atherosclerosis a disease affecting all animals or only certain animals? Atherosclerosis affects only herbivores. Dogs, cats, tigers, and lions can be...

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