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Do you have any information on the newer processes you would like to share? ThanksMilk is processed a lot different now than it was even 5 years ago so a lot of studies that you read were done before the newer processes were in place
According to a study I have only read this summary of:
Tip: Another Reason to Avoid Low-Fat Milk | T Nation
Just want to add how does the study know that increased urinary estrogen meant that they had higher blood estrogen? Maybe the low fat milk helped rid the body of estrogens. Also the fat in the higher fat milk maybe helps the body retain more of the estrogen than the low fat. So thats why you dont see the same urine levels. I doubt there would be any difference regarding levels of estrogen in the milk and I believe something else is at play in this study?
"Estimated total E(1) intake from three servings of whole milk was 68 ng/day, which represents 0.01% to 0.1% of daily production rates in human beings."
"It has further to be taken into consideration that about 90% of the ingested hormones are inactivated by the first-pass-effect of the liver."
"More effects on human beings can be expected from exposure to phytoestrogens, which occur in plants in high amounts, or by environmental chemicals with hormonal or hormone blocking activity such as some pesticides, polychlorinated biphenyls or dioxines, which are widespread in food and water."
People love to hate milk. I have never figured out why. I think because it is simpler to think about than other more complicated and nebulous things that are more difficult to quantify. Endotoxin for example. If a person knew that they were increasing their estrogen by 50% because of endotoxin they would likely care significantly more about this than about milk. But this is more complicated so our minds want to deal with something easy, where we have numbers and data.
Well, it remains the one thing I dunno if I can see eye to eye on Ray on. He makes a big point to rail on tryptophan/cystine, then says milk is not only OK, but a superfood.
I've collected data for over 5 months now on 200 parameters including tryptophan in my own diet and how it affects body temp and pulse and body weight gain etc. My threshold of tryptophan is 0.5 gram a day, which can be very quickly met or exceeded from milk alone if milk is used for anything more than a low amount of your total protein intake (4 cups is 0.4 gram). I suppose, if you just have a cup or two it's not the worst. But I daresay most of the hardcore milk drinkers using it for a protein source are having 8-16 cups a day easily which is 0.8-1.6 gram of tryptophan.
I have enjoyed proving Ray right on all his ideas so far... except one milk is the one thing I can't prove him right on sadly. I don't think it's an ideal hypothyroid food. There are a few hypothyroid people on these forums drinking it, or trying it, but I don't know one person posting here who is actually RECOVERING from hypothyroid via milk. If there is, I'm willing to be corrected though.
Like you mentioned for a person in a low hypothyroid state it might not be the easiest food to process and it has its anti nutrients like tryptophan and estrogen (all though likely insignificant) and likely lactose which can be a problem for some. But for people who can digest milk there’s more for it like A, D, K and a source for very bioavailable proteins as the whey protein is one of the easiest absorbed proteins and egg protein comes 2nd after whey. Sure whey can have tryptophan but the fernstrom ratio is not to bad and apparently casein also blocks/delays the absorption of tryptophan. That’s sourced from hans natural supremacys website. Its also likely the easiest way to get calcium in your diet. There might be other factors to why milk does not fit right with you as lactose intolerance, irritation of gut and undigestability. Saying milk tryptophan is causing your symptoms could be speculation and a hypothesis. Not to offend you. You might be right that you are very tryptophan sensitive. One way to test it would be to compare drinking 1 gram of tryptophan worth of milk and another day take 1 gram pure l-tryptophan as a supplement. I have done this and even taken more tryptophan than that in a single dose over an extended period and I did not notice any effect at all from supplementing with tryptophan. If this would be the same for you but milk exacebrate your problems instantly then its not the milk tryptophan. But i suspect your not willing to try this out. Hahaha
Well, it remains the one thing I dunno if I can see eye to eye on Ray on. He makes a big point to rail on tryptophan/cystine, then says milk is not only OK, but a superfood.
I've collected data for over 5 months now on 200 parameters including tryptophan in my own diet and how it affects body temp and pulse and body weight gain etc. My threshold of tryptophan is 0.5 gram a day, which can be very quickly met or exceeded from milk alone if milk is used for anything more than a low amount of your total protein intake (4 cups is 0.4 gram). I suppose, if you just have a cup or two it's not the worst. But I daresay most of the hardcore milk drinkers using it for a protein source are having 8-16 cups a day easily which is 0.8-1.6 gram of tryptophan.
I have enjoyed proving Ray right on all his ideas so far... except one milk is the one thing I can't prove him right on sadly. I don't think it's an ideal hypothyroid food. There are a few hypothyroid people on these forums drinking it, or trying it, but I don't know one person posting here who is actually RECOVERING from hypothyroid via milk. If there is, I'm willing to be corrected though.
Yeh I've read most of those quotes and on paper they definitely make sense but in practice like I say, I just don't think milk works in hypothyroid condition at least without excessive treatment like high dose antibiotics, high dose thyroid etc. imo if a food requires you to go to such great lengths to digest them it doesn't feel like an optimal food...
I should revisit one thing I said where no one here is recovering on milk, I do know ONE person who is. ilikecats, but only because he takes an obscene amount of thyroid every day (150mcg, and I think sometimes he said he takes even more than that). That's just craziness lol.
You are right that there are downsides to all foods, but some are significantly more so than others. I can achieve euthyroid waking temps on certain foods and others not as much, other food combinations leads me to hypothyroid waking temps, this to me is the test as to whether a food is thyroid supportive or thyroid destructive.
Are you sure your issue with milk is not the iodine content? It has 55mcg+ per cup. If your hypothyroidism isnt caused by iodine deficiency then it makes sense that large milk amounts would worsen it. It could be in beef and other meats too. 4 cups of milk you're already at 220mcg iodine.
Is your hypo autoimmune based? If its not then it could be due to vitamin/mineral deficiency? Copper, zinc, selenium, iron, b vits, a, d, c, etc
how pregnant the animal is
All possibilities, but I'm done with trying to force a food to work. If it works it works if it doesn't it doesn't. Sure I do the best I can to get nutrients as I can, but I'm done worrying obessively (Like I still try to get 100% RDA but other than that...) about the minutae, these are all rabbit holes that never led anywhere for me. To me the end-point data is the only thing that matters now (Pulse, Temps, body weight, overall markers of well-being).
I'm done with trying to force a food to work.
Milk is very high in mammalian estrogen
I have always struggled with Ray's rationale for his hard line promotion of dairy and found @Travis to be a breathe of fresh air when he started honing in on it in Estrogen In Milk
You made my day. ROFLing. Sorry for offtop.
Concentration of E1 sulfate increases from 30 pg/mL in non-pregnant cows to 151 pg/mL in pregnant cows at 40–60 days of gestation, and to a maximum level of 1000 pg/mL in cows at 220 days of gestation
I suppose it depends what you consider 'very high' to be. As far as I can tell it doesn't seem to be very high at all. I was attempting to make the point that is really a very, very minor contribution. I would guess that 1mg of DHEA would contribute more (I base this on absolutely nothing). In the thread you linked to below I posted the supposed theoretical average daily production rate of estrogen for males, which Travis went on to eloquently criticize. The number I posted was 140μg/day, which is sort of an old and/or dated standard. Travis thought it is more realistically around 25μg/day. It's not clear to me whether or not this is all 3 estrogens/estradiol alone/or whether or not it even matters considering they can convert back and forth. Regardless, the amount of estradiol in 1 litre of 3.5% milk, according to the chart I posted on the 1st page of this thread, is less than 0.02μg/per litre and the estrone 0.13μg/ per litre. So at 2 litres of whole milk you're at 0.3μg estradiol and estrone combined, which is 1.2% of the daily estrogen production in the average male that Travis thought was realistic. This doesn't even take into account how much is inactivated by the liver in the first-pass-effect, which according to one of the studies I posted on the 1st page of this thread is 90%. I suppose the argument could be made that an unhealthy person would be less efficient at inactivating the estrogen.
Well, it remains the one thing I dunno if I can see eye to eye on Ray on. He makes a big point to rail on tryptophan/cystine, then says milk is not only OK, but a superfood.
I've collected data for over 5 months now on 200 parameters including tryptophan in my own diet and how it affects body temp and pulse and body weight gain etc. My threshold of tryptophan is 0.5 gram a day, which can be very quickly met or exceeded from milk alone if milk is used for anything more than a low amount of your total protein intake (4 cups is 0.4 gram). I suppose, if you just have a cup or two it's not the worst. But I daresay most of the hardcore milk drinkers using it for a protein source are having 8-16 cups a day easily which is 0.8-1.6 gram of tryptophan.
I have enjoyed proving Ray right on all his ideas so far... except one milk is the one thing I can't prove him right on sadly. I don't think it's an ideal hypothyroid food. There are a few hypothyroid people on these forums drinking it, or trying it, but I don't know one person posting here who is actually RECOVERING from hypothyroid via milk. If there is, I'm willing to be corrected though.
I drink a half gallon of 1% a day. I’m recovering from hypo. I’m finishing a Wilson reset with T3 and milk has been wonderful.
The following isn't meant to be an insult, just a genuine attempt to figure things out.
With that in mind... do you have 98.4-98.6F waking temp every day first off? And I see you have to take T3 also. Again not meant to bash your approach, if you feel it's correct then by all means. If you do fully recover (as defined by 98.4-98.6F temp each and every morning) via milk, then I admit I'll be more interested.
I don't take T3 and I can get 98.4-98.6F waking temps consistently by avoiding certain things, milk being one of them. But if I make ANY gaffes on food, I can't get those temperatures. Diet has to be picture perfect. Excessive milk and other tryptophan/cysteine heavy foods can drop my temperature by as much as 1.0F (or more).
Note: When I say 98.4-98.6F I mean oral measurement. The equivalent in armpit measurement is 97.8-98.2F due to oral measurements running about 0.5F higher.