Cypro = amazing but...

[deliciousfruit]

I've been addicted to this stuff for nearly a year... tried to come off it so many times, have even gotten custom liquid versions from compounding pharmacies and tapered down by the 0.05mg, never been successful. My advice is don't start.

 

[Dr. B]

I've been addicted to this stuff for nearly a year... tried to come off it so many times, have even gotten custom liquid versions from compounding pharmacies and tapered down by the 0.05mg, never been successful. My advice is don't start.

what makes it so addicting

 

[deliciousfruit]

what makes it so addicting

The withdrawal

 

[Waynish]

Interesting thread. If these substances worked as well as they're pitched, then they kind of should be addictive.

 

[Ignoramus]

Loss of motivation/drive, hypersomnia (sleeping too much), reduced insulin sensitivity and weight gain, reduced libido, teeth problems... I would definitely say chronic histamine antagonism was the major player in the manifestation of these problems.

Also its possible weight gain made your face more neotenous due to extra fat softening the face. But you likely also had less androgens since histamine will generally raise androgens through H1 and H2 receptors. Which indirectly contributes to your problems as well.

That makes sense, thanks.

Another weird thing is that my beard suddenly grew when I started taking cypro. Previously I could only grow some sparse scruff, but since using cypro I have been able to grow a full beard. Why do you think this is?

I noticed that cypro made me less masculine in some ways (no ambition, no desire to workout, probably reduced strength, gyno, etc.), but more masculine in others (don't-give-a-**** attitude; effortless social confidence/dominance; fearless, easy eye contact; relaxed disposition; increased beard growth). Do you think it's possible that it could raise DHT but lower test or cortisol or something? I have never done blood tests, but it feels like the exact 'opposite' of my experience on Finasteride, where I think my testosterone rose (improved body composition, motivation, jaw size), but my DHT was suppressed (anxious, creepy energy, depressed, awkward, shaky). Obviously I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to biology, but does this make any sense?

Obviously it could just be that I became of beard age at the same time as starting cypro...

 

[redsun]

That makes sense, thanks.

Another weird thing is that my beard suddenly grew when I started taking cypro. Previously I could only grow some sparse scruff, but since using cypro I have been able to grow a full beard. Why do you think this is?

I noticed that cypro made me less masculine in some ways (no ambition, no desire to workout, probably reduced strength, gyno, etc.), but more masculine in others (don't-give-a-**** attitude; effortless social confidence/dominance; fearless, easy eye contact; relaxed disposition; increased beard growth). Do you think it's possible that it could raise DHT but lower test or cortisol or something? I have never done blood tests, but it feels like the exact 'opposite' of my experience on Finasteride, where I think my testosterone rose (improved body composition, motivation, jaw size), but my DHT was suppressed (anxious, creepy energy, depressed, awkward, shaky). Obviously I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to biology, but does this make any sense?

Obviously it could just be that I became of beard age at the same time as starting cypro...

It wasnt necessarily directly related but usually if androgen levels change, they tend to go up and down together (T up, DHT up). Unless you are consuming large amounts of PUFA (especially Omega 3 which inhibits 5AR the most) which will leave you with higher T but less DHT.

You significantly lowered excitatory neurotransmission with cypro negatively affecting motivation, strength, and leading to lower dopamine, low cortisol probably in the long run. Histamine augments NMDA function and anti-histamines thus will lower it. Glutamate is the main excitatory transmitter and when it is lowered too much this affects the release of important neurotransmitters necessary for masculine behavior/drive as well as leading to lower sex hormones (as NMDA increases GnRH amplitide).

Those other qualities are merely the manifestation of really low excitatory activity in the CNS and probably led to GABA being disinhibited. Thats an interesting experience using finasteride but I doubt cypro led to low T and higher DHT. More so what happened was GABA was higher and thus some "masculine" traits appeared to increase. Its important to have proper glutamate and gaba balance. If glutamate ends up too low, well you experienced first hand what it does.

 

[Dr. B]

That makes sense, thanks.

Another weird thing is that my beard suddenly grew when I started taking cypro. Previously I could only grow some sparse scruff, but since using cypro I have been able to grow a full beard. Why do you think this is?

I noticed that cypro made me less masculine in some ways (no ambition, no desire to workout, probably reduced strength, gyno, etc.), but more masculine in others (don't-give-a-**** attitude; effortless social confidence/dominance; fearless, easy eye contact; relaxed disposition; increased beard growth). Do you think it's possible that it could raise DHT but lower test or cortisol or something? I have never done blood tests, but it feels like the exact 'opposite' of my experience on Finasteride, where I think my testosterone rose (improved body composition, motivation, jaw size), but my DHT was suppressed (anxious, creepy energy, depressed, awkward, shaky). Obviously I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to biology, but does this make any sense?

Obviously it could just be that I became of beard age at the same time as starting cypro...

you got improved body comp, motivation and jaw size from finasteride?

 

[Nebula]

Cypro is definitely great for emergencies and to shut off stress quickly. Doesn't solve underlying issues but can bring relief in acute situations and so is best used as a tool, with intermittent use IMO

Agree. A tool for very short term use. A week max and combined with something to increase dopamine. I’ll never use it long term again. Just a day or two when very sick or badly injured. Maybe as Peat suggests its side effects could be justified long term for something like cancer.

 

[Ignoramus]

It wasnt necessarily directly related but usually if androgen levels change, they tend to go up and down together (T up, DHT up). Unless you are consuming large amounts of PUFA (especially Omega 3 which inhibits 5AR the most) which will leave you with higher T but less DHT.

You significantly lowered excitatory neurotransmission with cypro negatively affecting motivation, strength, and leading to lower dopamine, low cortisol probably in the long run. Histamine augments NMDA function and anti-histamines thus will lower it. Glutamate is the main excitatory transmitter and when it is lowered too much this affects the release of important neurotransmitters necessary for masculine behavior/drive as well as leading to lower sex hormones (as NMDA increases GnRH amplitide).

Those other qualities are merely the manifestation of really low excitatory activity in the CNS and probably led to GABA being disinhibited. Thats an interesting experience using finasteride but I doubt cypro led to low T and higher DHT. More so what happened was GABA was higher and thus some "masculine" traits appeared to increase. Its important to have proper glutamate and gaba balance. If glutamate ends up too low, well you experienced first hand what it does.

That's interesting, thank you for you insight.

What would you advise somebody do to maximise their ambition/drive? I feel most happy and 'myself' when I'm just grinding like crazy towards my goals. I've been making progress, but I'm not quite where I used to be in this regard.

I was reading about dopamine and how avoiding dopaminergic substances increases sensitivity to pleasure, which makes work more enjoyable and satisfying in the long run. I've recently quit coffee and have dropped all stimulating things from my life, and it seems to be really working so far; I kind of feel like a kid again. What do you think about this approach? I know it goes against some of the ideas talked about here. It seems when I am jacked up on sugar, caffeine/nicotine then I have the illusion of being productive without actually getting anything done, if that makes sense - like the 'exogenous' dopamine is messing up the natural reward that accompanies task completion?

 

[Ignoramus]

you got improved body comp, motivation and jaw size from finasteride?

Yeah, it makes me look good and youthful for whatever reason. I think it slightly increases T and does something with progesterone. I'm kind of tempted to go back on it because of this.

 

[redsun]

That's interesting, thank you for you insight.

What would you advise somebody do to maximise their ambition/drive? I feel most happy and 'myself' when I'm just grinding like crazy towards my goals. I've been making progress, but I'm not quite where I used to be in this regard.

I was reading about dopamine and how avoiding dopaminergic substances increases sensitivity to pleasure, which makes work more enjoyable and satisfying in the long run. I've recently quit coffee and have dropped all stimulating things from my life, and it seems to be really working so far; I kind of feel like a kid again. What do you think about this approach? I know it goes against some of the ideas talked about here. It seems when I am jacked up on sugar, caffeine/nicotine then I have the illusion of being productive without actually getting anything done, if that makes sense - like the 'exogenous' dopamine is messing up the natural reward that accompanies task completion?

If you have the drive and motivation and you know the goals you have in mind, effective work towards your goals is dependent upon energy output. Its not about dopamine entirely. Its also about adrenal output, thyroid, ATP production. These are the things that are going to maintain your energy levels, concentration, and control fatigue once you have your goal in mind. Caffeine is dopaminergic but also increases norepinephrine and epinephrine and overall stimulates the CNS indirectly by increasing glutamate (which increases other excitatory neurotransmitters). I believe the problem with caffeine is it does cause sodium loss so if you consume a lot you can constantly deal with low sodium which negatively impacts CNS activity.

SERT (clears serotonin from the synapse) is sodium dependent and sodium is also vital for excitatory neurotransmission as well so these will be affected if sodium is depleted. So not making sure to get more than enough sodium will lead to higher serotonin from caffeine. Coffee also depletes B-vitamins. These contribute to its loss of effectiveness in maintaining energy output. But you dont necessarily need to get back on coffee but I am merely stating the importance of these nutrients specifically for maintaining energy output. So if you do consume it again these nutrients need to be supplemented. And even if you dont consume caffeine again these are good to take anyway to improve all I mentioned. CVS super b complex + 50mg B5 (cut from 100mg tablets) has been the most effective for me in this regard. It has good ratios and doesnt have excess of B3 and B6 which is important.

As for sodium, starch is a great avenue to get enough of it not too mention it provides plenty of glucose as well which you absolutely need a lot of for maximum performance. Also important is getting plenty of protein regularly throughout the day to provide raw material to make neurotransmitters especially straight in the morning as well as choline (eggs in the morning is common). Also if by sugar you mean refined carbs low in B1 and B vitamins in general present in whole food carbs then yes thats problematic and will deplete you. It will boost energy short term but long term it impairs metabolism.

 

[Ignoramus]

If you have the drive and motivation and you know the goals you have in mind, effective work towards your goals is dependent upon energy output. Its not about dopamine entirely. Its also about adrenal output, thyroid, ATP production. These are the things that are going to maintain your energy levels, concentration, and control fatigue once you have your goal in mind. Caffeine is dopaminergic but also increases norepinephrine and epinephrine and overall stimulates the CNS indirectly by increasing glutamate (which increases other excitatory neurotransmitters). I believe the problem with caffeine is it does cause sodium loss so if you consume a lot you can constantly deal with low sodium which negatively impacts CNS activity.

SERT (clears serotonin from the synapse) is sodium dependent and sodium is also vital for excitatory neurotransmission as well so these will be affected if sodium is depleted. So not making sure to get more than enough sodium will lead to higher serotonin from caffeine. Coffee also depletes B-vitamins. These contribute to its loss of effectiveness in maintaining energy output. But you dont necessarily need to get back on coffee but I am merely stating the importance of these nutrients specifically for maintaining energy output. So if you do consume it again these nutrients need to be supplemented. And even if you dont consume caffeine again these are good to take anyway to improve all I mentioned. CVS super b complex + 50mg B5 (cut from 100mg tablets) has been the most effective for me in this regard. It has good ratios and doesnt have excess of B3 and B6 which is important.

As for sodium, starch is a great avenue to get enough of it not too mention it provides plenty of glucose as well which you absolutely need a lot of for maximum performance. Also important is getting plenty of protein regularly throughout the day to provide raw material to make neurotransmitters especially straight in the morning as well as choline (eggs in the morning is common). Also if by sugar you mean refined carbs low in B1 and B vitamins in general present in whole food carbs then yes thats problematic and will deplete you. It will boost energy short term but long term it impairs metabolism.

Thanks for that. I have a lot of learning to do.

Mm, it's complex trying to put things together. It feels like I used to simply 'care' more about my future and working towards it + being creative. Now it's like there is an emotional disconnect - "why do all that hard work when I can just watch YouTube?". I guess it's hard to draw biological extrapolations based on these things, because there are so many factors involved. Maybe you're right, and it's not dopamine at all, but a problem of environment, goals, values, spirituality, etc. I'm hoping something will change as my histamine goes back to normal and that I can find my old self again.

I keep flip-flopping on coffee. I do love it, but I feel so 'integrated' now that I'm off of it - like I am more childlike and connected to my direct experience; it's really hard to describe. I think maybe my liver is too messed up to be able to deal with it all, and I inevitably end up still having it in my system over night. I've been using coffee for many years every day, and I just kind of accepted it as normal to wake up feeling shitty every day; but now that I'm having a break I feel so good upon waking, and like I am a different person than I was the day before. I guess coffee keeps me from going into deep sleep. I would like to try thyroid and see if that helps.

Yes, I do use a lot of salt and eat a lot of eggs and potatoes. I've recently started supplementing a B complex + extra B1 due its popularity atm. Maybe I just need to give it more time, as I've heard it takes a while. How important are the ratios for the B vitamins? I keep reading conflicting information about it. I'm using the Thorne Basic B Complex (which has 5x more b3 and and 2x more b6 than the one you suggested... uggh) and am slowly increasing B1 HCL. I originally started this protocol to help with sleep apnea (another thing which worsened after ceasing cypro). I have been breathing a bit better.

 

[Waynish]

I would be careful to never reduce your experience to the material. That would be truly ignorant, @Ignoramus
Many are going through spiritual effects that are more fundamental than the energetic effects of substances we ingest.

 

[redsun]

Thanks for that. I have a lot of learning to do.

Mm, it's complex trying to put things together. It feels like I used to simply 'care' more about my future and working towards it + being creative. Now it's like there is an emotional disconnect - "why do all that hard work when I can just watch YouTube?". I guess it's hard to draw biological extrapolations based on these things, because there are so many factors involved. Maybe you're right, and it's not dopamine at all, but a problem of environment, goals, values, spirituality, etc. I'm hoping something will change as my histamine goes back to normal and that I can find my old self again.

I keep flip-flopping on coffee. I do love it, but I feel so 'integrated' now that I'm off of it - like I am more childlike and connected to my direct experience; it's really hard to describe. I think maybe my liver is too messed up to be able to deal with it all, and I inevitably end up still having it in my system over night. I've been using coffee for many years every day, and I just kind of accepted it as normal to wake up feeling shitty every day; but now that I'm having a break I feel so good upon waking, and like I am a different person than I was the day before. I guess coffee keeps me from going into deep. I would like to try thyroid and see if that helps.

Yes, I do use a lot of salt and eat a lot of eggs and potatoes. I've recently started supplementing a B complex + extra B1 due its popularity atm. Maybe I just need to give it more time, as I've heard it takes a while. How important are the ratios for the B vitamins? I keep reading conflicting information about it. I'm using the Thorne Basic B Complex (which has 5x more b3 and and 2x more b6 than the one you suggested... uggh) and am slowly increasing B1 HCL. I originally started this protocol to help with sleep apnea (another thing which worsened after ceasing cypro). I have been breathing a bit better.

Well i didnt say dopamine didnt matter, just thats it not the only part. You still need the energy and vitality.

Imo its pretty important and too many B-vitamins seem to also cause negative effects in my experience. High amounts of B3 increases serotonin. Think of serotonin as a torpor hormone. The higher it gets generally speaking, the more you become impaired mentally and physically. I think that serotonin increasing effect of B3 is acute of course but overall you want to avoid that as much as possible. Its possible betaine may mitigate that to some degree by providing methyl donors lost by B3 being excreted. I wouldnt see why you would need more B1 on top of what is already in thorne's. Keep in mind we only have around 30mg of thiamine in the body.

Generally B1, B2, B3, B5 should be roughly same content and B3 should not be too high. B6 less than 10mg, folate should be around daily value or less. Since B12 absorption is quite poor (you absorb less than 1% once intake is over 2mcg) if you get a decent amount from a supplement it doesnt make too much of a difference. Biotin should not be greater than 1000mcg and the problem is it competes with B5 for absorption. This is partly why I added B5 on the side of the complex (i generally seem to get acne with too much biotin and dont feel good, B5 absorption is being reduced is my guess). The other part was the B5 content in it is quite low anyway. B5 is really important for overall metabolism, ATP production, cholesterol metabolism, and the brain but I wanted to avoid the typical 500mg+ pills which is clearly unbalanced compared to the other B-vitamins.

Yeh thats nice that it helps considering B vitamins can generally help a lot of conditions.

 

[Dr. B]

Well i didnt say dopamine didnt matter, just thats it not the only part. You still need the energy and vitality.

Imo its pretty important and too many B-vitamins seem to also cause negative effects in my experience. High amounts of B3 increases serotonin. Think of serotonin as a torpor hormone. The higher it gets generally speaking, the more you become impaired mentally and physically. I think that serotonin increasing effect of B3 is acute of course but overall you want to avoid that as much as possible. Its possible betaine may mitigate that to some degree by providing methyl donors lost by B3 being excreted. I wouldnt see why you would need more B1 on top of what is already in thorne's. Keep in mind we only have around 30mg of thiamine in the body.

Generally B1, B2, B3, B5 should be roughly same content and B3 should not be too high. B6 less than 10mg, folate should be around daily value or less. Since B12 absorption is quite poor (you absorb less than 1% once intake is over 2mcg) if you get a decent amount from a supplement it doesnt make too much of a difference. Biotin should not be greater than 1000mcg and the problem is it competes with B5 for absorption. This is partly why I added B5 on the side of the complex (i generally seem to get acne with too much biotin and dont feel good, B5 absorption is being reduced is my guess). The other part was the B5 content in it is quite low anyway. B5 is really important for overall metabolism, ATP production, cholesterol metabolism, and the brain but I wanted to avoid the typical 500mg+ pills which is clearly unbalanced compared to the other B-vitamins.

Yeh thats nice that it helps considering B vitamins can generally help a lot of conditions.

have you tried megadosing thiamine ?
where did you get the b3 serotonin link
thats interesting.
that makes it seem like its because taking b3 in supplement form, means less consumed tryptophan is turning to niacinamide and instead going to serotonin? basically the body downregulates production/conversion of b3?

i heard b5 is negative on here, that it affects taurine, lowers protein synthesis.. that it activates the adrenals in a negative way...
b5 iirc is easy to get from dairy and foods
the b1 and b3 are difficult to get, even with liver and milk. milk is maybe low in b3 for some reason, maybe it has some form of b3 that isnt easily tested for commonly.
b1, b3, b6 are tough to get, even the rda, from foods.
folate, choline, b2, b5, b12 you can get rda from foods. biotin is another tricky one, not high in foods, but supposerdly bacteria make it. and ive had that acne effect from using standalone biotin, if taken alongside b5 all seems fine, but b5 has the issue of protein synthesis, depleting taurine... activating adrenals potentially...
i was thinking of using 500mg thiamine hcl, it seems to be the most unique and best b vitamin. i heard it also has low absorption like b12?
its a carbonic anhydrase inhibitor, possibly angiotensin inhibitor, iirc raises the PDH enzyme...

whats worrisome is also this
"
Thiamine in foods can be degraded in a variety of ways. Sulfites, which are added to foods usually as a preservative,[39] will attack thiamine at the methylene bridge in the structure, cleaving the pyrimidine ring from the thiazole ring.[12] The rate of this reaction is increased under acidic conditions. Thiamine is degraded by thermolabile thiaminases (present in raw fish and shellfish).[11] Some thiaminases are produced by bacteria. Bacterial thiaminases are cell surface enzymes that must dissociate from the membrane before being activated; the dissociation can occur in ruminants under acidotic conditions. Rumen bacteria also reduce sulfate to sulfite, therefore high dietary intakes of sulfate can have thiamine-antagonistic activities.

Plant thiamine antagonists are heat-stable and occur as both the ortho- and para-hydroxyphenols. Some examples of these antagonists are caffeic acid, chlorogenic acid, and tannic acid. These compounds interact with the thiamine to oxidize the thiazole ring, thus rendering it unable to be absorbed. Two flavonoids, quercetin and rutin, have also been implicated as thiamine antagonists"


the more i look into these vitamins, how they were discovered, and experiences using them the more it seems they are just one small factor out of thousands or millions in food. it seems by chance, a few isolated ones happen to be beneficial but they seem to always be affecting other things.

does sulfites/sulfates mean only the added preservatives or does it include any sulfur present in food? it seems theres a bunch of things affecting thiamine function or absorption. is caffeic acid present in caffeine/caffeine supplements or only in actual tea and coffee? the bacterial affecting thiamine means hypothyroid or people with bacterial overgrowth could also be in need of some big thiamine supplements. the quercetin and rutin affecting it seems troublesome, the amounts in OJ should be small enough and it has its own thiamine, but quercetin has been becoming very popular as a zinc ionophore iirc, its used as part of the covid supplement protocols. i think rutin/quercetin have anti inflammatory effects but also anti thyroid effects in the supplements. life extension even put a "quercetin phytosome" in their multivitamin, which they say improves its absorption by like 15 or 50 times which is insane. that could potentially have very disastrous consequences on thiamine function. its risky as it is taking it as a supplement where its probably much larger amounts than in natural foods.


regarding b vitamin suplements, didnt Ray say riboflavin supps can cause serious issues due to sourcing. i think he said thiamine hcl, b6, b3, biotin, and b5 are the safe ones iirc... he doesnt like supplementing b12, folate or choline even if theres no sourcing issues, due to the methyl activity. and i think he specifically mentioned riboflavin and maybe folic acid as being inflammatory due to odd sourcing methods.

do you think we can get by fine, only megadosing thiamine hcl or would all the Bs need to be supplemented

 

[redsun]

have you tried megadosing thiamine ?
where did you get the b3 serotonin link
thats interesting.
that makes it seem like its because taking b3 in supplement form, means less consumed tryptophan is turning to niacinamide and instead going to serotonin? basically the body downregulates production/conversion of b3?

i heard b5 is negative on here, that it affects taurine, lowers protein synthesis.. that it activates the adrenals in a negative way...
b5 iirc is easy to get from dairy and foods
the b1 and b3 are difficult to get, even with liver and milk. milk is maybe low in b3 for some reason, maybe it has some form of b3 that isnt easily tested for commonly.
b1, b3, b6 are tough to get, even the rda, from foods.
folate, choline, b2, b5, b12 you can get rda from foods. biotin is another tricky one, not high in foods, but supposerdly bacteria make it. and ive had that acne effect from using standalone biotin, if taken alongside b5 all seems fine, but b5 has the issue of protein synthesis, depleting taurine... activating adrenals potentially...
i was thinking of using 500mg thiamine hcl, it seems to be the most unique and best b vitamin. i heard it also has low absorption like b12?
its a carbonic anhydrase inhibitor, possibly angiotensin inhibitor, iirc raises the PDH enzyme...

whats worrisome is also this
"
Thiamine in foods can be degraded in a variety of ways. Sulfites, which are added to foods usually as a preservative,[39] will attack thiamine at the methylene bridge in the structure, cleaving the pyrimidine ring from the thiazole ring.[12] The rate of this reaction is increased under acidic conditions. Thiamine is degraded by thermolabile thiaminases (present in raw fish and shellfish).[11] Some thiaminases are produced by bacteria. Bacterial thiaminases are cell surface enzymes that must dissociate from the membrane before being activated; the dissociation can occur in ruminants under acidotic conditions. Rumen bacteria also reduce sulfate to sulfite, therefore high dietary intakes of sulfate can have thiamine-antagonistic activities.

Plant thiamine antagonists are heat-stable and occur as both the ortho- and para-hydroxyphenols. Some examples of these antagonists are caffeic acid, chlorogenic acid, and tannic acid. These compounds interact with the thiamine to oxidize the thiazole ring, thus rendering it unable to be absorbed. Two flavonoids, quercetin and rutin, have also been implicated as thiamine antagonists"


the more i look into these vitamins, how they were discovered, and experiences using them the more it seems they are just one small factor out of thousands or millions in food. it seems by chance, a few isolated ones happen to be beneficial but they seem to always be affecting other things.

does sulfites/sulfates mean only the added preservatives or does it include any sulfur present in food? it seems theres a bunch of things affecting thiamine function or absorption. is caffeic acid present in caffeine/caffeine supplements or only in actual tea and coffee? the bacterial affecting thiamine means hypothyroid or people with bacterial overgrowth could also be in need of some big thiamine supplements. the quercetin and rutin affecting it seems troublesome, the amounts in OJ should be small enough and it has its own thiamine, but quercetin has been becoming very popular as a zinc ionophore iirc, its used as part of the covid supplement protocols. i think rutin/quercetin have anti inflammatory effects but also anti thyroid effects in the supplements. life extension even put a "quercetin phytosome" in their multivitamin, which they say improves its absorption by like 15 or 50 times which is insane. that could potentially have very disastrous consequences on thiamine function. its risky as it is taking it as a supplement where its probably much larger amounts than in natural foods.


regarding b vitamin suplements, didnt Ray say riboflavin supps can cause serious issues due to sourcing. i think he said thiamine hcl, b6, b3, biotin, and b5 are the safe ones iirc... he doesnt like supplementing b12, folate or choline even if theres no sourcing issues, due to the methyl activity. and i think he specifically mentioned riboflavin and maybe folic acid as being inflammatory due to odd sourcing methods.

do you think we can get by fine, only megadosing thiamine hcl or would all the Bs need to be supplemented

Excess nicotinamide increases plasma serotonin and histamine levels - PubMed

Methylation, a methyl group-consuming reaction, plays a key role in the degradation (i.e., inactivation) of monoamine neurotransmitters, including catecholamines, serotonin and histamine. Without labile methyl groups, the methylation-mediated degradation cannot take place. Although high niacin...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It for sure is partially due to methyl group loss since histamine is also raised but this could affect serotonin synthesis since we could theorize more B3 intake allows tryptophan to be used for serotonin pathway instead.

Yes I have megadosed thiamine in the past. You should absolutely consume all B-vitamins together, I have no doubt about that. They can be consumed daily in decent amounts as I posted before I think not too high doses are ideal. Folic acid, B12, biotin are not that necessary unless you think you could be deficient due to poor intake or due to blood tests.

Whatever negatives you heard about B5 is not true. Yes your adrenals need to work and most people have underactive adrenals which is related to low ATP production, cholesterol metabolism (B5 is directly involved in the rate-limiting enzyme in cholesterol synthesis hence the common association with the adrenals which make steroid hormones aldosterone/cortisol/cortisone), low thyroid. B5 is just as important as B1 in this regard so it should not be ignored.

I dont think its detrimental necessarily to try B1 megadoses alone to see what happens. But no I dont think can "get by fine" supplementing one B vitamin permanently.

 

[Meathead]

I haven't taken it for 3 nights, just to take a break from it and I can still feel the effects. I will be taking it mon and friday from here on out to help with the weight gain. In the past 3 days I already look less bloated and heavy lol. This stuff is gold for me and my social life it really does help me alot so I am going to continue to take it.

I haven't tried anything else that's like it as I said in my OP so if someone knows something close to it let me know!

 

[Dr. B]

I haven't taken it for 3 nights, just to take a break from it and I can still feel the effects. I will be taking it mon and friday from here on out to help with the weight gain. In the past 3 days I already look less bloated and heavy lol. This stuff is gold for me and my social life it really does help me alot so I am going to continue to take it.

I haven't tried anything else that's like it as I said in my OP so if someone knows something close to it let me know!

is it giving you a mental boost? what mechanism is it acting on for that? and you dont think the weight gain was muscle? i read before, someone said it causes weight gain because it increases muscle

 

[Meathead]

is it giving you a mental boost? what mechanism is it acting on for that? and you dont think the weight gain was muscle? i read before, someone said it causes weight gain because it increases muscle

Its both, I gained alot more weight I can tell because of my belly fat but my chest and legs have grown significantly and my legs are small lol so its noticeable. I can conversate and have absolutely no worries at all when speaking to people. I just talk I'm never nervous I'm confident. I wish I was always this way lol

 

[Dr. B]

Excess nicotinamide increases plasma serotonin and histamine levels - PubMed

Methylation, a methyl group-consuming reaction, plays a key role in the degradation (i.e., inactivation) of monoamine neurotransmitters, including catecholamines, serotonin and histamine. Without labile methyl groups, the methylation-mediated degradation cannot take place. Although high niacin...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It for sure is partially due to methyl group loss since histamine is also raised but this could affect serotonin synthesis since we could theorize more B3 intake allows tryptophan to be used for serotonin pathway instead.

Yes I have megadosed thiamine in the past. You should absolutely consume all B-vitamins together, I have no doubt about that. They can be consumed daily in decent amounts as I posted before I think not too high doses are ideal. Folic acid, B12, biotin are not that necessary unless you think you could be deficient due to poor intake or due to blood tests.

Whatever negatives you heard about B5 is not true. Yes your adrenals need to work and most people have underactive adrenals which is related to low ATP production, cholesterol metabolism (B5 is directly involved in the rate-limiting enzyme in cholesterol synthesis hence the common association with the adrenals which make steroid hormones aldosterone/cortisol/cortisone), low thyroid. B5 is just as important as B1 in this regard so it should not be ignored.

I dont think its detrimental necessarily to try B1 megadoses alone to see what happens. But no I dont think can "get by fine" supplementing one B vitamin permanently.

why not folate and biotin, those are somewhat tough to get in diet?

someone posted here that b5 raises cortisol!

what effects did you get from the standalone b 1 megadosing