Male role models/leaders, do the exist?

[Herbie]

I here people talking about male role models and male leaders and lack thereof, I don't know of any, I'm always disappointed. Are there any stand outs who are not politicians or charlatans?

I happened upon this video about Cus D'amato who was an old Italian man who produced Mike Tyson. I was blown away by the way Cus spoke of how he approached young street kids like Mike and took them to be champions. I've read some philosophy and motivation stuff but not anything like this, he wasn't in it for the money.


View: https://youtu.be/N2oU3-8LYJ4



View: https://youtu.be/ut-wYdhxcMM


It doesn't matter if your into boxing or not because Cus believed that it was more about character of the fighter that wins 75% mental 25% physical, what he teaches can be applyed to anything.

If one does apply Ray Peats knowledge and findings to their life for 5 years and gets healthy and has energy and holds down a job then what? Become a Ray Peat clone? No.

 

[MetabolicTrash]

Cus is okay ... But look at it this way.

I grew up with "male role models" and they did me no good. There is no way any one person will magically make another's life "complete" without that person and their own capabilities or needs being materialized.

I see "incel haters" here who say stuff like men aren't "real" anymore because they don't have some ***t kicking dad who will beat them at the drop of a hat, or some "beta-male" figure who will consequently pass on these "beta values" to their sons to carry on this "legacy."

I view my father as a beta male like guy because he only had sexual success through "long game" AKA chasing and spending years wooing countless women until one "gave him a chance."

Do I consider my dad a role model? NO.

Why? I do not want to follow in his footsteps. He did not have a very rich, healthy life -- it was all stress and ate at his very core/essence. He did not instill or leave behind any "values" as a man that would enhance my life as it is.

Some guys will say their fathers are what made them "better men" ... And more power to them if that is the final verdict in their life.

I am just fine without being a beta male whose association is that which benefits a mate non-sexually primarily as that'd make my already miserable life feel even more bleak by heavily aligning my self/true "nature" with that which simply fits with no further questioning of the surrounding structure. To make yourself "complete" by succumbing to the nature of "as is" or "taking what is dealt to you" is merely choosing to be ignorant of all your doubts in exchange for the sane comfort of conformity and associative simplicity -- like being the final piece of a puzzle you did not even know how it was built (or why).

Most people are robots so they define "role model" as anyone from which they absorb the qualities of, or follow the advice of due to their giving of their virtue of being to another of sorts, like trading your vision of reality for another's writ of their's edited for you. You have your thoughts, but if those do not work out then you sell your agenda in exchange for another who can promise a remedial exchange of destiny for you. You might even take on or become the spitting image of the man or woman who is the one who made that such writ for your soul -- a sort of barter of your being realized when short of your initial intentions never can fully be materialized before you by your own words.

Of course people can lie and/or honestly come to believe that what they feel or say is good for others if there is motive in it for them. For example a woman can tell a man that being a beta male is good because it is better than nothing else ... But of course we know the price on losing something outweighs the benefits of pretending that having it is not some consequential divider of fates on its own AKA saying it is "for your own good" when we know well what does good for us ... Then it becomes a shift of sorts on how we question our own true intentions as opposed to what naturally is expected to just make sense. This doesn't have to apply to incel vs. Chad (I know I talk alot of those subjects but you can expand this concept to most things).

So the TL;DR is that -- as guys -- only we can really be our own role models. If you want a false idol to follow then you have God for that. No hate, but God is not in my social network (maybe because I don't really use social media?) ... And if anyone is more a false idol it is one who is adhered to or acknowledged in such a way but without presumable "demi"-ness associated therein.

 

[Nomane Euger]

@Herbie Tony robbins is one of the rare actual persons i have seen on youtube and internet that has some degree of authenticity in his energy and power when he express him self,and would be influencial even among groups of confident mens.about cus damato from what i have seen and the perception mike tyson had about him,he did seems to have some degree of authoritarianism that was toxic for Mike,so i dont think he has anything special as a person

 

[Nomane Euger]

I am just fine without being a beta male whose association is that which benefits a mate non-sexually primarily as that'd make my already miserable life feel even more bleak by heavily aligning my self/true "nature" with that which simply fits with no further questioning of the surrounding structure. To make yourself "complete" by succumbing to the nature of "as is" or "taking what is dealt to you" is merely choosing to be ignorant of all your doubts in exchange for the sane comfort of conformity and associative simplicity -- like being the final piece of a puzzle you did not even know how it was built (or why).

hi,this paragraph gave me instant brain fog,i can not understand it,i even translated it on google traduction,and i could still not understand,can you phrase it a second time in a different manner that would hypotetically be more understandable for me?

 

[Herbie]

@Herbie Tony robbins is one of the rare actual persons i have seen on youtube and internet that has some degree of authenticity in his energy and power when he express him self,and would be influencial even among groups of confident mens.about cus damato from what i have seen and the perception mike tyson had about him,he did seems to have some degree of authoritarianism that was toxic for Mike,so i dont think he has anything special as a person

Anthony Robbins is more a performer and a salesman. Cus died when Mike was still a teenager, it was down hill for Mike when Cus died. I doubt if you watched the second video that you would view Cus as an authortatian.

 

[MetabolicTrash]

hi,this paragraph gave me instant brain fog,i can not understand it,i even translated it on google traduction,and i could still not understand,can you phrase it a second time in a different manner that would hypotetically be more understandable for me?

No translators in existence will help anyone understand my posts.

The simple explanation is that one should not just do what is expected of them given their conditions, especially if they feel BETTER CONDITIONS exist that they can not fully reach. If you can have better, why just stop and do what everyone else says is right for you?

Sometimes the winning move is to not play at all. If you feel the game is rigged against you I doubt you would want to keep playing in the loser or second-tier position while turning a blind eye at who is really winning and why.

Keeping this in topic with the subject it can also be understood that having ANY form of role model taken to seriously melds you or your character/essence/being in to said person and the values or morals passed on to you rather than what you can materialize or realize as the "self" without others' influence or dictation.

Like the saying, "You are what you eat," you may also just be what you let consume you or sway you by others.

 

[Herbie]

Cus is okay ... But look at it this way.

I grew up with "male role models" and they did me no good. There is no way any one person will magically make another's life "complete" without that person and their own capabilities or needs being materialized.

I see "incel haters" here who say stuff like men aren't "real" anymore because they don't have some ***t kicking dad who will beat them at the drop of a hat, or some "beta-male" figure who will consequently pass on these "beta values" to their sons to carry on this "legacy."

I view my father as a beta male like guy because he only had sexual success through "long game" AKA chasing and spending years wooing countless women until one "gave him a chance."

Do I consider my dad a role model? NO.

Why? I do not want to follow in his footsteps. He did not have a very rich, healthy life -- it was all stress and ate at his very core/essence. He did not instill or leave behind any "values" as a man that would enhance my life as it is.

Some guys will say their fathers are what made them "better men" ... And more power to them if that is the final verdict in their life.

I am just fine without being a beta male whose association is that which benefits a mate non-sexually primarily as that'd make my already miserable life feel even more bleak by heavily aligning my self/true "nature" with that which simply fits with no further questioning of the surrounding structure. To make yourself "complete" by succumbing to the nature of "as is" or "taking what is dealt to you" is merely choosing to be ignorant of all your doubts in exchange for the sane comfort of conformity and associative simplicity -- like being the final piece of a puzzle you did not even know how it was built (or why).

Most people are robots so they define "role model" as anyone from which they absorb the qualities of, or follow the advice of due to their giving of their virtue of being to another of sorts, like trading your vision of reality for another's writ of their's edited for you. You have your thoughts, but if those do not work out then you sell your agenda in exchange for another who can promise a remedial exchange of destiny for you. You might even take on or become the spitting image of the man or woman who is the one who made that such writ for your soul -- a sort of barter of your being realized when short of your initial intentions never can fully be materialized before you by your own words.

Of course people can lie and/or honestly come to believe that what they feel or say is good for others if there is motive in it for them. For example a woman can tell a man that being a beta male is good because it is better than nothing else ... But of course we know the price on losing something outweighs the benefits of pretending that having it is not some consequential divider of fates on its own AKA saying it is "for your own good" when we know well what does good for us ... Then it becomes a shift of sorts on how we question our own true intentions as opposed to what naturally is expected to just make sense. This doesn't have to apply to incel vs. Chad (I know I talk alot of those subjects but you can expand this concept to most things).

So the TL;DR is that -- as guys -- only we can really be our own role models. If you want a false idol to follow then you have God for that. No hate, but God is not in my social network (maybe because I don't really use social media?) ... And if anyone is more a false idol it is one who is adhered to or acknowledged in such a way but without presumable "demi"-ness associated therein.

Yeah the thing that struck me about Cus was that he said he could see the potential in Mike and repeatedly told Mike that he could be the best until Mike started believing it then became it. Mike couldn't see it himself.

I here 'you have to beleive in yourself, no one else will' But Cus is saying the opposite that a man won't believe in himself and has to be taught to and then he becomes. It's hard to be your own role model because than you have to look at yourself objectively and most would think less of themselves than reality or not see potential.

People can be religious but Avatars aren't going to tell you that your this and that and you can do anything unless your taking ayahuasca in the Amazon jungle or something.

 

[MetabolicTrash]

Yeah the thing that struck me about Cus was that he said he could see the potential in Mike and repeatedly told Mike that he could be the best until Mike started believing it then became it. Mike couldn't see it himself.

I here 'you have to beleive in yourself, no one else will' But Cus is saying the opposite that a man won't believe in himself and has to be taught to and then he becomes. It's hard to be your own role model because than you have to look at yourself objectively and most would think less of themselves than reality or not see potential.

People can be religious but Avatars aren't going to tell you that your this and that and you can do anything unless your taking ayahuasca in the Amazon jungle or something.

Nobody is ever really right or wrong; we just try and do what we can.

We can follow or not follow anyone -- people just do what they can, it seems

You can want and never get -- this doesn't mean one should practice elsewhere.

We can try and be perfect -- the only thing we really end up being is different.

- Memoirs of Broken Energy, The wandering being of No Purpose

 

[L_C]

I here people talking about male role models and male leaders and lack thereof, I don't know of any, I'm always disappointed. Are there any stand outs who are not politicians or charlatans?

I happened upon this video about Cus D'amato who was an old Italian man who produced Mike Tyson. I was blown away by the way Cus spoke of how he approached young street kids like Mike and took them to be champions. I've read some philosophy and motivation stuff but not anything like this, he wasn't in it for the money.


View: https://youtu.be/N2oU3-8LYJ4



View: https://youtu.be/ut-wYdhxcMM


It doesn't matter if your into boxing or not because Cus believed that it was more about character of the fighter that wins 75% mental 25% physical, what he teaches can be applyed to anything.

If one does apply Ray Peats knowledge and findings to their life for 5 years and gets healthy and has energy and holds down a job then what? Become a Ray Peat clone? No.

To me as a female the male leader is the one with honor and honesty and those are truly hard to find. Forget about the leaders, I think every man should cultivate these values.

 

[Nomane Euger]

Anthony Robbins is more a performer and a salesman.

are you looking for a man with a set of characteristics,or a man that has a specific function,or accomplished something specific independently of his characteristics when you talk about a male role/leader?

Cus died when Mike was still a teenager, it was down hill for Mike when Cus died. I doubt if you watched the second video that you would view Cus as an authortatian.

i have seen videos in the past , the way he talked to mikein certain contexts,and the the way mike perceived cus in certain contexts,the degree of authoritarianism cus had on certain occasions was suboptimal for mike developpement and well being.for

 

[Herbie]

are you looking for a man with a set of characteristics,or a man that has a specific function,or accomplished something specific independently of his characteristics when you talk about a male role/leader?

i have seen videos in the past , the way he talked to mikein certain contexts,and the the way mike perceived cus in certain contexts,the degree of authoritarianism cus had on certain occasions was suboptimal for mike developpement and well being.for

I'm not looking for myself. I don't know, I've come across so called leaders/role models when I was younger and observed them but always found that they were as flawed or worse than anyone else.

I mean I've come across men who had a reputation or had made out or where in a position where they should have basically possessed the highest form of character but they were the opposite after observing them, had weak character.

 

[Nomane Euger]

I'm not looking for myself. I don't know, I've come across so called leaders/role models when I was younger and observed them but always found that they were as flawed or worse than anyone else.

I mean I've come across men who had a reputation or had made out or where in a position where they should have basically possessed the highest form of character but they were the opposite after observing them, had weak character.

i meant which criterias would you use to deem the existence of a non disapointing role/leader model?

yes ofc a lot of peoples that have reputation and a "position"have poor character,thats why i mentionned tony robins,if you look at characters,he has some degree of influence,and he manifest a good degree energy and power,and he is optimistic

 

[Herbie]

i meant which criterias would you use to deem the existence of a non disapointing role/leader model?

yes ofc a lot of peoples that have reputation and a "position"have poor character,thats why i mentionned tony robins,if you look at characters,he has some degree of influence,and he manifest a good degree energy and power,and he is optimistic

Yeah I'll think about it. Its true about Tony Robbins and he is successful himself but I wonder what impact has he measurably had in the world, he motivates people but it appears to lack depth.

 

[Nomane Euger]

Yeah I'll think about it. Its true about Tony Robbins and he is successful himself but I wonder what impact has he measurably had in the world, he motivates people but it appears to lack depth.

i have no idea how many people he impact positively,i mentionned him as man who has the positive characteristics to influence others positively,he manifest some authenticity in the videos i have seen,and some of the ideas he preechs would be positive for most people